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What do you understand from these passages?

michel

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Dash Your Infants Against the Rocks

"By the rivers of Babylon we sat and wept when we remembered Zion. There on the poplars we hung our harps, for there our captors asked us for songs, our tormentors demanded songs of joy; they said, "Sing us one of the songs of Zion!" How can we sing the songs of the LORD while in a foreign land? If I forget you, O Jerusalem, may my right hand forget [its skill]. May my tongue cling to the roof of my mouth if I do not remember you, if I do not consider Jerusalem my highest joy. Remember, O LORD, what the Edomites did on the day Jerusalem fell. 'Tear it down," they cried, 'tear it down to its foundations!' O Daughter of Babylon, doomed to destruction, happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us- he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.' " (Psalm 137:1-9)

Lord Sends Bears to Tear Up Children

"Elisha went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty-two children of them. (2 Kings 2:23-24)

:confused:
 
Dayv

Dayv

Member
wow, uh, that's creepy, reminds me of the fig tree thing with Jesus (though the fig trees not quite as sick). Happy it isn't my book.
 
D

dan

Well-Known Member
The first is just saying that the daughter of Babylon did such great destruction to the house of Israel that a fair recompense would have been to have killed her infants.

The second needs some clarification. First, the Hebrew should be translated "youths," not little children. They could have been nineteen year old punks for all we know. Second, who's to say these youths weren't just harrassing the bear's cubs before making fun of the Prophet. Any number of circumstances could have combined to bring about this just consequence for their misdeeds.
 
W

Watcher

The Gunslinger
dan said:
The second needs some clarification. First, the Hebrew should be translated "youths," not little children. They could have been nineteen year old punks for all we know. Second, who's to say these youths weren't just harrassing the bear's cubs before making fun of the Prophet. Any number of circumstances could have combined to bring about this just consequence for their misdeeds.
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19 year old punks? Consequences?
Isn't forgiveness supposed to be a central doctrine to this religion?
 
jewscout

jewscout

Religious Zionist
"Elisha went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty-two children of them. (2 Kings 2:23-24)
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like dan said, you could translate the hebrew to mean youths, or even apprentise, but i don't think that's the case here.
From what i've read from Rash when it says "...he turned back and looked..." Elisha was looking into their very souls and saw that these "youths" had no respect for Torah and mitzvot and were pure evil and whose lineage would produce nothing but more evil....
 
Dayv

Dayv

Member
wow, that's quite a glimpse. I think if these persons can be described as youths, than they are probably still somewhat immature and their actions can't really be yet called pure evil but more ignorant adolesence. Either way, that's not mercy.
 
jewscout

jewscout

Religious Zionist
Dayv said:
wow, that's quite a glimpse. I think if these persons can be described as youths, than they are probably still somewhat immature and their actions can't really be yet called pure evil but more ignorant adolesence. Either way, that's not mercy.
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Dayv, that is just one opinion from one commentator...i never promised it would make the scene a rosey one
 
Mister Emu

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
Agreement here Jewscout, the commentary I read said the same thing. That when Elisha looked back, he saw that they were a poisonous generation who would harass and cause no end of trouble for the prophets(of which the commentator said there was a school in Bethel).

Another note the commentator made was that they were insulting him by ridculing his baldness(go up thy bald head). This is nothing he could control, and was part of God's creation, thus they were disrespecting God.

These two things the commentator said, were what called for a cursing(judgement), which being a righteous curse, the Lord answered by sending two she-bears.
 
Dayv

Dayv

Member
I'm sorry, I think anyone that goes so far to curse someone because they deem them 'evil' should be mauled by a bear...I should be a bear trainer...
 
Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
jewscout said:
like dan said, you could translate the hebrew to mean youths, l....
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Thanks, jewscout, while tearing little children to pieces seems mildly excessive, I can certainly see how an omipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent YHWH would deem it the appropriate punishment for disrespect when it comes to youths.
 
D

dan

Well-Known Member
Watcher said:
19 year old punks? Consequences?
Isn't forgiveness supposed to be a central doctrine to this religion?
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It's God's prerogative to forgive whomever He wants. We're the only ones responsible for forgiving everyone, regardless of their repentant nature or lack thereof. Whatever the Prophet's actions, they were the will of God.
 
W

Watcher

The Gunslinger
dan said:
It's God's prerogative to forgive whomever He wants. We're the only ones responsible for forgiving everyone, regardless of their repentant nature or lack thereof. Whatever the Prophet's actions, they were the will of God.
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Oh, now I see how it is. WE are expected to forigive everyone, but God can pick and choose?:areyoucra
 
D

dan

Well-Known Member
Watcher said:
Oh, now I see how it is. WE are expected to forigive everyone, but God can pick and choose?:areyoucra
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Yeah, because He sees the thoughts and intents of each person's heart. We cannot, so we are unable to judge whether someone does or does not deserve forgiveness. God commands us to forgive all.
 
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