Exodus 12: 40.

s-word said:

If we were to believe that the J.E., date of the destruction of the first temple which is 3338 J. E. Is equivalent to the B.C. date of the temples destruction in 586 B.C, this would put the date that Jacob was reunited with his son Joseph at 1686 B.C., which is only 9 years from the true date of 1695, 10 years after Joseph was made governor of all Egypt in 1705 B.C.

Click to expand...

poisonshady313 said:

3338 JE = 422 CE.... not 586.

Where the heck did you get 586 from?

Click to expand...

s-word said:

Google up "The destruction of the first Temple in 586/587 B.C. or simply, "The destruction of the first Temple."

Click to expand...

poisonshady313 said:

There's a small problem:

3338 does NOT match up with 586.

Don't believe me?

Add 586 to 2009. Subtract that total from 5769.

Click to expand...

s-word said:

586 + 3338 + 2009 = 5933, not 5769. Any Jewish school will teach that the Babylonians destroyed the first Temple in 3338 J.E. Any English school will teach that this event occurred in 586 B.C.

Click to expand...

In Timeline of the Patriarchs (from Dark Mirrors of Heaven), I had used Jewish Era (JE) to work out the timeline in BC era.

This year, 2009, according to the Jewish Calendar, would make 5769 JE.

S-word said:

Wrong!

Click to expand...

:no: Not wrong.

I don't know what sort of a fantasy world you're living in.

(So I was off by one year, because I didn't account for the fact that there is no year 0 in the gregorian calendar)


The year 2009 CE is the year 5769 JE.

which makes the year 1 CE the year 3761

Which makes the year 1 BCE the year 3760

Take away 422 years from each side

The year 423 BCE is the year 3338.

gnostic said:

I have the tendency to get sidetracked, because I think too much in "every which way". I don't think I can stay on just 1 topic, even if my life depends on it. My mum must have dropped me on my head.

:sorry1:



Sources?

Apart from the bible, or Tanakh, I am not using any source. I do pretty much the calculation myself.

I have pieced together all the events to that happened from Creation to the Joseph's death, but I get stuck at Joseph's death to Moses' appearance (at birth and the Exodus).



I am interested in finding when the Exodus started (referring to when Moses and the Israelites leaving Egypt and the introduction of the Ten Commandments at Mt Sinai (or Horeb), with regards to what 430 stands for, but I am also interested in calculating when the Flood happened.

If I can match the biblical timeline with that of the usual timeline (BC and AD) that we used, then I can pinpoint what happen when.

The problem is that several way that the Exodus 12:40 can be interpret, thereby giving each a different date of when Jacob-Joseph reunion and the Exodus happened.

Did you know, s-word, that the Septuagint Bible on Exodus 12:40 say that the Israelite's 430 year sojourn is both "Egypt" and "Canaan"?



This would give, again at least 2 possible dates, to the Exodus.

If you are referring to "Israelites" as being the children of Jacob, then they didn't arrived in Canaan until they left Haran in 2200JE. Therefore 430 years, would mean that the Exodus happened in 2630 JE.

The other alternative is to include Jacob himself, who was born in 2108 JE. Hence the 430 years would place the Exodus to 2538 JE instead.

Like or not, starting the date at Abraham receiving the covenant, as the Galatians 3:17 leave out the tiny detail that Abraham is not an Israelite. "Children of Israel" do actually refer to "Children of Jacob", because it was Jacob who was named Israel in Peniel (Genesis 32:22-32).

Click to expand...

According to the interpretation set forth in my post:

Poisonshady313 said:

Here's what the footnote in the Artscroll Stone Edition Tanach has to say:

The Covenant Between the Parts took place 430 years before the Exodus, and it is the period referred to in our verse. God foretold to Abraham that his offspring would endure 400 years during which there would be exile, persecution, and servitude. Those 400 years began with the birth of Isaac - 30 years after the Covenant Between the Parts - since the prophecy referred to Abraham's offspring The actual sojourn in Egypt lasted 210 years. Accordingly, the verse's reference to 430 years as the time they dwelled in Egypt means that the Egyptian exile had been decreed 430 years before the Exodus.



We go back to Genesis 15:13

And He said to Abram, "Know with certainty that your offspring shall be aliens in a land not their own. - and they will serve them, and they will oppress them - four hundred years.

The footnote says:

There would be a total of four hundred years of alien status, in which would be included the 210 years of literal exile in Egypt, and also the twenty years that Jacob spent with Laban in Haran. The servitude mentioned in this prophecy took place during the last 116 years of the Egyptian servitude, the last 86 years of which were a time of harsh oppression, when Pharaoh intensified the suffering of the Jews. The calculation of the four hundred years would begin thirty years after this vision, with the birth of Isaac; since he never had the permanent home or the prestige and honor enjoyed by Abraham, he and his offspring were considered aliens, even during the years that they lived in Eretz Yisrael. After those four hundred years, Abraham's offspring would be able to take possession of the land.

Click to expand...

The Exodus happened in the year 2448 JE.

That is, 400 years after the birth of Isaac...

The birth of Isaac having been 30 years after the Covenant Between the Parts.

Poisonshady313 said:

:no: Not wrong.

Click to expand...

Poisonshady313 said:

I don't know what sort of a fantasy world you're living in.

(So I was off by one year, because I didn't account for the fact that there is no year 0 in the gregorian calendar)


The year 2009 CE is the year 5769 JE.

which makes the year 1 CE the year 3761

Which makes the year 1 BCE the year 3760

Take away 422 years from each side

The year 423 BCE is the year 3338.

Click to expand...

Poisonshady 313: The year 2009 CE is the year 5769 JE.

By S-word: Wrong! The date 3338 J.E., for the destruction of the first temple by the Babylonians is correct, but then they get it wrong, because we all know that it was 586 years before 1 C.E. that this occurred which means that 1 C.E., = 3924 J.E., add 2009 and we arrive at the date 5933 J.E., 5933 years from the appearance of Adam upon the earth.

Poisonshady313: which makes the year 1 CE the year 3761

By S-word: Nope, the year 1 C.E., = 3924 A.M.

Poisonshady313: Which makes the year 1 BCE the year 3760

By S-word: Nope, the year 1 B.C., = 3923 A.M.

Poisonshady313: Take away 422 years from each side

The year 423 BCE is the year 3338.

By S-word: Take 586 years from 3924 which is 1 C.E. and we come to 3338 A.M. the year when the Babylonians destroyed the first temple.
5 933 + 67= 6,000: In 67 years time, the great Sabbath begins and we shall experience 1,000 years of peace.

gnostic said:

In

Click to expand...

gnostic said:

Timeline of the Patriarchs (from Dark Mirrors of Heaven), I had used Jewish Era (JE) to work out the timeline in BC era.

This year, 2009, according to the Jewish Calendar, would make 5769 JE.

Click to expand...

You are not taking into account that the Babylonians destroyed the first temple in 586 B.C. which makes 1 C.E., equal to 3924 J. E., add 2009 and we arrive at the date 5933 A.M.

S-word said:

You are not taking into account that the Babylonians destroyed the first temple in 586 B.C. which makes 1 C.E., equal to 3924 J. E., add 2009 and we arrive at the date 5933 A.M.

Click to expand...

THIS IS NOT THE YEAR 5933!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Which means the whole "586" number is wrong.

Be as stubborn as you want... but you sound like an idiot when you claim that 3338 = 586.

We know what year it is now... 5769. If you go back to 586, you'll be at 3174.

Not 3338.

So you have to decide which number is right and which number is wrong.

Was it 3338, or was it 3174?

If it was 3338, it was 421 BCE. If it was 3174, then it was 586.

You can't have it both ways.

Poisonshady313 said:

THIS IS NOT THE YEAR 5933!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Click to expand...

Poisonshady313 said:

Which means the whole "586" number is wrong.

Be as stubborn as you want... but you sound like an idiot when you claim that 3338 = 586.

We know what year it is now... 5769. If you go back to 586, you'll be at 3174.

Not 3338.

So you have to decide which number is right and which number is wrong.

Was it 3338, or was it 3174?

If it was 3338, it was 421 BCE. If it was 3174, then it was 586.

You can't have it both ways.

Click to expand...

This is the year 5933!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The first Temple was destroyed in 3338 A.M., do you agree with this, obviusely you do, now every Encyclopaedia I have at my disposal says that the first Temple was destroyed in 586 B.C., which means that the year 1 C.E. is in fact 3924 A.M., add the year 2009 to this, and we are now living 5933 years from the time that Adam first appeared on earth.

As I have said in my previous post, 3338 A.M. as the date of the destruction of the first temple is correct, but where you are in error, is in the fact that 586 years after the destruction of the first temple which has to be the year 3924 A.M., (I'll just add those two numbers for you as I am unaware of your mathematical skills, 3338 + 586 = 3924, have you got that?) So therefore, the year that the Christian Era began is 3924 A.M., add to that the year 2009 C.E. and we have 5933 A.M., Now can you understand that, or must I be forced to repeat myself once more?

Your an obstinate little fellow aren't you? Either you have an Encyclopaedia that says the first Temple was destroyed in 421 B.C., or else you are putting yourself above the greastest scholars of today, which is it?

Poisonshady313 said:

According to the interpretation set forth in my post:

Click to expand...

Poisonshady313 said:

The Exodus happened in the year 2448 JE.

That is, 400 years after the birth of Isaac...

The birth of Isaac having been 30 years after the Covenant Between the Parts.

Click to expand...

If Isaac was born when Abraham was 100 and you say that the birth of Isaac occurred 30 years after the covenant was made, this then means that God made his covenant with Abraham when he was 70 years old, this would place the making of God’s covenant in the town of Haran in the land that is today known as Turkey when Abraham was 70, 5 years before he left his father Terah and travelled to the land of Canaan.

Who bin teaching you mate? It's no wonder that you've got all your dates mixed up.

I have listed Abraham being 85 when he received the covenants, 2033 JE (see Timeline of the Patriarchs).

And in this you are absolutely correct, as it was just after God had promised Abraham when sealing the covenant, that the descendants of He who had no children, would possess the land of Canaan, that his wife, the barren Sarah gave to him her slave servant "Hagar" to be the mother of his descendants. See Genesis 16: 3; where it is said that this happened after Abraham who was 75 when he moved from Haran, had lived in Canaan for 10 years. 75+10=85, which means that Isaac was born 15 years after the covenant when Abraham was 100 years old and 415 years before the exodus and the time when the law was introduced through Moses, 430 years after the covenant was made between Abraham and the Lord God.

Do you know how long Joshua was leader of the Israelites, after Moses' death, s-word?

All I know is that he was 110 when he died.

And there seemed to be gap between Samson and Samuel. The story of Micah and the Levite don't give us any date.

BTW. How long was Saul's reign?

gnostic said:

Do you know how long Joshua was leader of the Israelites, after Moses' death, s-word?

Click to expand...

gnostic said:

All I know is that he was 110 when he died.

And there seemed to be gap between Samson and Samuel. The story of Micah and the Levite don't give us any date.

BTW. How long was Saul's reign?

Click to expand...

It was in the year that the Israelites had been ordered to get out of Egypt, that Moses (See Numbers 13) chose 12 young men to spy out the land of Canaan, among these were Joshua the son of Nun and Caleb. Because of the bad report brought back by the other 10 spies which had struck fear into the hearts of the Israelites who were then too afraid to enter the promised land; the Israelites were forced to wander in the wilderness for forty years until all of that generation had died, except for Joshua and Caleb.

Although we know that Caleb was 40 years old (See Judges 14: 7) when he was sent to spy out the land, we are not told the exact age of Joshua, but as he is described as a young man at that time we can assume that he was around the same age as Caleb, and would have been around 80 years old when he succeeded Moses, just before they crossed the Jordan to attack Jericho, 40 years later, and as he died at the age of 110, he would have led Israel for about 30 years.

The story of Micah and the Levite priest (See Judges 18: 30) who was Jonathan the grandson of Moses, would have occurred about this time as Eleazar the son of Aaron had died about the same time as Joshua, and Phinehas the grandson of Aaron who, before the Israelites had even crossed the Jordan (See Numbers 25: 7) had thrust a spear through the bodies of Zimri the Israelite and Cozbi a Midianite woman while they were having sex in a tent; and Phinehas (See Judges 20: 28) the cousin of Jonathan the priest of Micah, was in charge of the covenant box at Bethel in the days of Micah who lived far back in the mountainous country of Ephraim.

A lot happened in the 40th year of Israel’s wanderings in the wilderness. Aaron (See Numbers 20: 28) died before the Israelites defeated king Sihon and king Og, and Aaron (See Numbers 33:29) who died on the first day of the fifth month of the 40th year after leaving Egypt, 2464+40=2504, died in the same year as Moses, and it was only a matter of weeks after the death of Moses, that Israel crossed the Jordan, where, on the fourteenth day of the first month of the year 2505 A.M., the Manna which had fallen for 40 years, ceased.

Jepthah (See Judges 11: 26) became the Judge of Israel 300 years after they had defeated King Sihon in the 40th year of their wandering in 2504 A.M.+ 300=2804 A.M. and he judged for 6 years. After Jepthah; Izban led Israel for 7 years, then Elon led them for 10 years, and Abdon for 8 years, 6+7+10+8=31, so it was 331 years after they had entered the promised land that Samson (See Judges 16: 31) judged Israel for 20 years, 331+20=351, which means that Samson died in the year 2854 A.M., 351 years after the Israelites had entered the promised land.

But now we run into a snag: Abraham was born in 1984 A.M., and was 85 years old in 2033 A.M. when the covenant was made, then 430 years later, in the year 2463 A.M. they left Egypt, which you have agreed is the date of the exodus according to Pauls time period between the covenant and the Law. 40 years after the exodus in the year of 2503/2504 A.M., the Israelites entered the Promised Land, then 351 years after the Israelites had defeated Sihon the Armorite King, the line of Judges came to its end in the year 2854 A.M. This is, assuming that Izban, Elon, Abnon and Samson, all followed in quick succession with no breaks in the years of their succession.

Now comes the apparent snag, (See 1 Kings 6: 1;) 480 years after the Exodus, which was in 2463 A.M.; (2463+480=2943) in the year of 2943 A.M., Solomon began work on the Temple which was completed 11 years later in 2954 A.M.. This means that between the death of Samson the last of Israel judges in 2854 A.M. before Samuel, , and the completion of Solomon’s Temple in 2954 A.M., there is the seemingly impossible time period of only 100 years.

Now please to be sure to read this carefully with understanding, and please check all Biblical references that have been given before responding to this post, I would then like to hear your response to what has been said so far, before continuing this debate. Thanks for the enlightening question. Answers are easy, it is finding the right questions to ask, that is the hard part.

Thanks, s-word.

s-word said:

It was in the year that the Israelites had been ordered to get out of Egypt, that Moses (See Numbers 13) chose 12 young men to spy out the land of Canaan, among these were Joshua the son of Nun and Caleb....

Although we know that Caleb was 40 years old (See Judges 14: 7) when he was sent to spy out the land....

Click to expand...

Yes, I remember the passage where Moses sent spies into Canaan in Numbers. I don't remember Caleb being 40 year old at the time. Are you sure Judges 14:15 is the right passage?

s-word said:

...we are not told the exact age of Joshua, but as he is described as a young man at that time we can assume that he was around the same age as Caleb, and would have been around 80 years old when he succeeded Moses, just before they crossed the Jordan to attack Jericho, 40 years later, and as he died at the age of 110, he would have led Israel for about 30 years.

Click to expand...

Anyway, if Joshua and Caleb were roughly the same age, then yes, Joshua could have been a leader of the Israelites for 30 years. That would make sense, even though it doesn't say how Joshua old was.

s-word said:

The story of Micah and the Levite priest (See Judges 18: 30) who was Jonathan the grandson of Moses, would have occurred about this time as Eleazar the son of Aaron had died about the same time as Joshua,

Click to expand...

It has been a while since I have read this part about the Micah and the Levite. It didn't occur to me that this Levite was a grandson of Moses, Jonathan, because I remember the book keep calling him "the Levite" instead of by name.

Thank you for the information.

However, is this Levite, Jonathan, the same as the Levite in the next 3 chapters (19-21)?

Because Judges 18 say that Jonathan was a priest for the Dan, but the other chapters say that the Levite lived in the territory of Ephraim, not that of Dan. Are they the same people, or different Levites?

s-word said:

Now please to be sure to read this carefully with understanding, and please check all Biblical references that have been given before responding to this post, I would then like to hear your response to what has been said so far, before continuing this debate.

Click to expand...

It may take a little while to work it out.

I know what you mean that the calculation may not work out. I have the number of years calculate, with regards to the Book of Judges, but I have lost it somewhere. If Jonathan the Levite was indeed the grandson of Moses, I don't see how it could be possible for him to live in the time between Samson and Samuel, if there is 351 years from the death of Joshua and death of Samson. Judges 18:3 does say Jonathan was "young".

Could it be that some of judges overlapped one another, instead of succession of judges.

When I have the time in the weekends, I'll tried to work it out, and compare it with some of the comparisons that you've made.

gnostic said:

Thanks, s-word.

Click to expand...

gnostic said:

Yes, I remember the passage where Moses sent spies into Canaan in Numbers. I don't remember Caleb being 40 year old at the time. Are you sure Judges 14:15 is the right passage?




Anyway, if Joshua and Caleb were roughly the same age, then yes, Joshua could have been a leader of the Israelites for 30 years. That would make sense, even though it doesn't say how Joshua old was.



It has been a while since I have read this part about the Micah and the Levite. It didn't occur to me that this Levite was a grandson of Moses, Jonathan, because I remember the book keep calling him "the Levite" instead of by name.

Thank you for the information.

However, is this Levite, Jonathan, the same as the Levite in the next 3 chapters (19-21)?

Because Judges 18 say that Jonathan was a priest for the Dan, but the other chapters say that the Levite lived in the territory of Ephraim, not that of Dan. Are they the same people, or different Levites?



It may take a little while to work it out.

I know what you mean that the calculation may not work out. I have the number of years calculate, with regards to the Book of Judges, but I have lost it somewhere. If Jonathan the Levite was indeed the grandson of Moses, I don't see how it could be possible for him to live in the time between Samson and Samuel, if there is 351 years from the death of Joshua and death of Samson. Judges 18:3 does say Jonathan was "young".

Could it be that some of judges overlapped one another, instead of succession of judges.

When I have the time in the weekends, I'll tried to work it out, and compare it with some of the comparisons that you've made.

Click to expand...

gnostic said:

Thanks, s-word.

Click to expand...

gnostic said:

Yes, I remember the passage where Moses sent spies into Canaan in Numbers. I don't remember Caleb being 40 year old at the time. Are you sure Judges 14:15 is the right passage?

No, that was my mistake; I should have said Joshua 14: 7, in Joshua 14: 15; the 85 year old Caleb is ready to take possession of the land promised to him by Moses 45 years previously.

quote=gnostic; Anyway, if Joshua and Caleb were roughly the same age, then yes, Joshua could have been a leader of the Israelites for 30 years. That would make sense, even though it doesn't say how Joshua old was.

It has been a while since I have read this part about the Micah and the Levite. It didn't occur to me that this Levite was a grandson of Moses, Jonathan, because I remember the book keep calling him "the Levite" instead of by name.
Thank you for the information.

However, is this Levite, Jonathan, the same as the Levite in the next 3 chapters (19-21)?

Yes.

quote=gnostic; Because Judges 18 say that Jonathan was a priest for the Dan, but the other chapters say that the Levite lived in the territory of Ephraim, not that of Dan. Are they the same people, or different Levites?

Jonathan, see Judges 18: 30; was the priest of Micah who lived in the hill country of Ephraim; See Judges chapter 17; who the 600 surviving Danites with their wives and all their possessions, seduced him into going with them and be the priest to a whole tribe, rather than the one man, Micah

Dan’s only child Hushim was a girl who married a Benjaminite by the name of Shaharaim, see 1 chronicles 8: 8-11, to who she bore two sons, Abitub, who became the source of the tribe of Dan and Elpaal, who was an ancestor of King Saul. You will notice that the descendants of Benjamin and Dan are lumped together in 1 Chronicles 7: 6-12, Shuppim and Huppim are in fact Abitub and Elpaal the sons of Hushim who is translated as the son of Dan instead of his daughter. There are other instances in the Bible where the sole child who is a daughter and the source of her father’s progeny is listed as “Ben” and translated “son.”

The tribe of Dan who were the descendants of Abitub the son of a Benjaminite Father,......... but I don’t really have the time to explain it fully right now and this will have to wait until I return. But the story of Jonathan the priest who lived in the mountainous country of Ephraim and the war against Benjamin in the day of Phinehas the cousin of Jonathan, are related, and Samson who was a descendant of Hushim the daughter of Dan, who appears on the scene some three hundred years later, did not come from the land to which the 600 surviving fighting men from the tribe of Dan/Benjamin had moved to after the country they lived in was lost in the war between Israel and the descendants of Benjamin.

The Danites were forced into the hill country of their brother tribe Benjamin by the Philistines who would not allow them to occupy the land that had been originally allocated to them, which land was still occupied by the Philistines some 300 years later in the days of the infertile giant, Samson.

God willing, we will have to continue this at some later date, as the caravan is loaded and the Missus is itchin to go, I hope to talk with you later.

Click to expand...

Some thought on the dates. If Joshua is too young, the dates of the Judges gets too crammed together. If Joshua, who served Moses from a young age (Num 11:28), served him before Moses fled Egypt, Joshua would be ~90 when they entered Canaan and then died at 110. Jephthah (Josh 11:26) says it has been 300 years since the Israelites conquered Heshbon. This allows a reasonable amount of time for the Judges before Jephthah, but crams the ones after him together. The only way is to have Samson overlap with Eli and have Saul reign for closer to 20 years, as in some readings. The stories after the story of Samson are not dated and could be anytime during the later Judges. This reading allows the 480 years before Solomon's 4th year to remain true.

Welcome greentwiga.

Thanks you for your inputs. It gives me some brooding thoughts on the dates.

I find it strange that the Philistines played an important part in Samson, Saul and David, but in the last part of Judges (17 to 21) with regards to Micah and the Levite, they are surprising absence in these chapters. It makes me wondered if chapters 17-21 may be set at earlier date, before Samson, rather than after Samson.

Any thought on this greentwiga or s-word?

gnostic said:

Welcome greentwiga.

Click to expand...

gnostic said:

Thanks you for your inputs. It gives me some brooding thoughts on the dates.

I find it strange that the Philistines played an important part in Samson, Saul and David, but in the last part of Judges (17 to 21) with regards to Micah and the Levite, they are surprising absence in these chapters. It makes me wondered if chapters 17-21 may be set at earlier date, before Samson, rather than after Samson.

Any thought on this greentwiga or s-word?

Click to expand...

Leah bore the first four sons of Jacob before the barren Rachel gave her servant Bilhah to Jacob who bore ‘Dan’ Jacobs fifth son, but because Leah, Jacob’s only true wife, was to later bear another two boys and a daughter, her six sons received the first six blessings from their Father, while Dan the fifth born, received the seventh blessing, see Genesis 49: 16; plus Dan also received the seventh allotment of Land in Canaan, see Joshua 19: 40.

Dan, the only tribe not mentioned among the 144000 chosen ones in revelation 7: 5-8; was unable to take possession of their allotment of land and they were driven into the hill country of their brother tribe of Benjamin, (Hushim the only child of Dan had married a Benjaminite by the name of Shaharaim to whom she bore two sons, 1st Chronicles 8: 13, ‘Abitub’ the source of the tribe of the sonless Dan, and Elpaal the ancestor of King Saul)

Because of what the Benjaminites had done to the concubine of the Levite priest who lived far back in the hill country of Ephraim, the rest of Israel went to war against them, killing every man woman and child in that country, except for the 600 fighting men, see Judges 20: 47-48. Having killed all the women in the land of Benjamin and having made a solemn vow that no Israelite would allow their daughter to marry a descendant of Benjamin, they had everyone in the town of Jabesh who was not a virgin killed, the four hundred virgins who were all the descendants of Dinah the seventh born child of Leah, were given to the 600 survivors of the war, (Danites of the seventh blessing).

With another 200 virgins that they were allowed to kidnap, the 600 fighting men who had not been able to take any land in the promised kingdom and had now lost the land that they had lived in (See Judges 18: 1) were to later take their wives, their children, their livestock and all their possessions and after stealing the Idols of Micah who lived far back in the hill country of Ephraim and convincing the Levite priest who was Jonathan the grandson of Moses and the cousin of Phinehas the grandson of Aaron, who was the high priest in charge of the covenant box at that time, they then moved into the land of Sidon, (Sidon was the firstborn son of Canaan) before being lost to the nation of Israel.

So you see Gnostic, the Philistines who played an important part in Samson, Saul and David, and who did not allow the Danites to take possession of the land that had been assigned to them, did have a part to play at that time also.
See Judges 2: 10; it was after that generation which included Phinehas and Jonathan had all died that Israel forsook the Lord and a succession of men which ended with Samson, then judged Israel. Samuel, like Eli the high priest whom he succeeded, was not a warrior Judge as were the others and the time period of Samson and Samuel may have overlapped.

S-word said:

This is mainly for my mate Ben Masada, but all are invited to answer.

Do you accept as truth, Galatians 3: 17, where Paul states that there was a period of 430 years from the time that God made his covenant with Abraham until he gave the Law to Israel through his obedient servant Moses, or do you believe as stated in Exodus 12: 40, that the Israelites had lived in Egypt for 430 years to the day?

Click to expand...

S-word,
It makes no difference whether anyone believes what the Holy Scriptures say or not, they are true in every way, about everything mentioned!!! Do you know just how many have said that the Bible is inaccurate, only to EAT CROW later, or how many IMPROBATIONS there have been??? Only a fool says the Bible is wrong, because invariably later they will be proved wrong as has happened over and over.
Bible chronology is not guesswork. There is a date, called PIVOTAL Date, that both Bible scholars, and secular authorities agree upon. That date is 539BC, the date for the fall of Babylon. From that date all Bible dates can be determined accurately. The Bible gives chronology for going both ways from that Pivotal Date.
Now, Abram, the name of Abraham, before God changed it, crossed over the Euphrates in 1943 going to Canaan. This is the same year that God made the covenant with Abram, about all nations being blessed because of Abraham, Gen 12:1-3,7.
The Law Covenant came about in the year 1513, exactly as the Bible stated, 430 years after the covent was first made with Abram. So every date or number of years stated in the scriptures are accurate.
The Bible also mentions that the Israelites were afflicted for 400 years. This is 30 years after Abraham came into Canaan. It was at the weaning of Isaac, Gen 19:8-10. This is because Ishmael, the son of the Egyptian slave girl started poking fun, or persecuting Isaac, Gal 4:27-31.
Interestingly, Paul mentions a period of 450 years, Acts 13:17-20. Paul was speaking about the time period, starting with Abraham crossing the Euohrates River until the Israelites had destroyed enough of the Canaanites, under Joshua, to then have the land apportioned out to the tribes.
If you do not understand the scriptures, you should make a serious search of the scriptures, because stating that the Bible is wrong will only lead to a person being proved a lier, Prov 30:5,6. God has promised that He will not allow His Bible to become ADULTERATED, for then how could He ever judge the world??? Rom 3:5,6, 1Pet 1:25, Ps 12:6,7.

the Abrahamic covenant was made in 1943 B. C., in which year Abraham also entered Canaan and began sojourning there. This marked the start of the 430-year period. Thirty years later, when Isaac was mocked and taunted by Ishmael, the 400-year period of affliction began.

In 1728 B.C. Jacob and his whole family joined his son Joseph in Egypt, to start the sojourn in Egypt, after a 215-year period of sojourning in Canaan that was started with Abraham. Then it was another 215 years before Israel was delivered from Egyptian sojourning and affliction, in 1513 B. C., at which time the Law covenant was established with Israel

The text does not say they dwelt in Egypt 430 years, but that they sojourned for that period of time. The last half of the period they did dwell in Egypt, but not all of it.
The Septuagint rendering of this text presents the accurate thought: “And the sojourning of the children of Israel, while they sojourned in the land of Egypt and the land of Canaan, was four hundred and thirty years.”

The Septuagint is a translation made in the second and third centuries before Christ, the Exodus portion doubtless being completed during the third century, and was based upon Hebrew manuscripts older than those of the accepted Masoretic Hebrew text. For this reason it may well be more accurate in many of its renderings than the standard Masoretic text. The Samaritan Pentateuch, a transliteration of the Hebrew text into Samaritan characters and interspersed with some Samaritan idioms, was produced in the fifth century before Christ and it also includes the sojourning in Canaan with that in Egypt. So it was the sojourning in Egypt and Canaan combined that totaled 430 years, and not the time spent in Egypt alone. Hence the time between the making of the two covenants (430 years) was not the same as the time of sojourning in Egypt (215 years), and there is no clash between Galatians 3:17 and Exodus 12:40 when the latter is correctly understood.

jtartar said:

S-word,
It makes no difference whether anyone believes what the Holy Scriptures say or not, they are true in every way, about everything mentioned!!! Do you know just how many have said that the Bible is inaccurate, only to EAT CROW later, or how many IMPROBATIONS there have been??? Only a fool says the Bible is wrong, because invariably later they will be proved wrong as has happened over and over.
Bible chronology is not guesswork. There is a date, called PIVOTAL Date, that both Bible scholars, and secular authorities agree upon. That date is 539BC, the date for the fall of Babylon. From that date all Bible dates can be determined accurately. The Bible gives chronology for going both ways from that Pivotal Date.
Now, Abram, the name of Abraham, before God changed it, crossed over the Euphrates in 1943 going to Canaan. This is the same year that God made the covenant with Abram, about all nations being blessed because of Abraham, Gen 12:1-3,7.
The Law Covenant came about in the year 1513, exactly as the Bible stated, 430 years after the covent was first made with Abram. So every date or number of years stated in the scriptures are accurate.
The Bible also mentions that the Israelites were afflicted for 400 years. This is 30 years after Abraham came into Canaan. It was at the weaning of Isaac, Gen 19:8-10. This is because Ishmael, the son of the Egyptian slave girl started poking fun, or persecuting Isaac, Gal 4:27-31.
Interestingly, Paul mentions a period of 450 years, Acts 13:17-20. Paul was speaking about the time period, starting with Abraham crossing the Euohrates River until the Israelites had destroyed enough of the Canaanites, under Joshua, to then have the land apportioned out to the tribes.
If you do not understand the scriptures, you should make a serious search of the scriptures, because stating that the Bible is wrong will only lead to a person being proved a lier, Prov 30:5,6. God has promised that He will not allow His Bible to become ADULTERATED, for then how could He ever judge the world??? Rom 3:5,6, 1Pet 1:25, Ps 12:6,7.

Click to expand...

Quote: jtartar....It makes no difference whether anyone believes what the Holy Scriptures say or not, they are true in every way, about everything mentioned!!! If you do not understand the scriptures, you should make a serious search of the scriptures, because stating that the Bible is wrong will only lead to a person being proved a lier,


Oh, I understand the scriptures alright matey, but I’m glad that you have begun your post with the above statement, because, by using the Holy Scriptures which you believe are true in everyway, about everything mentioned, we’ll now begin to sort out this mess that you’ve got yourself into.

Genesis 11: verse: 26; When Terah was 70 years old, he became the father of Abram, Nahor, and Hanran. Verse 27; Haran was the father of Lot. Verse 28; Haran died in the city of his birth which was Ur in Babylonia. Verse 29 Haran was the father of Milchah, who was married to her father’s brother, who was her Uncle Nahor. Verse 31; Terah took his son Abram, Sarai the wife of Abram, and Lot, the son of the dead Haran, and they left the city of Ur in order to go to the land of Canaan, but they only went as far as Haran in the land which is today, ‘Turkey,’ and they settled down there. Verse 32; Terah died there in the town of Haran at the age of 205. Abram had married Sarai his half sister: Genesis 20: 12; Abraham explains to King Abimelech at Mamre in the southern part of Canaan, that he had not lied to him when saying that Sarai was his sister, as Sarai was indeed his sister, for she was the biological daughter of his father, but not his mother. This is all Biblical factual.


Genesis 12: 4; When Abram was 75 years old, (And as he was born when his father was 70 years old, this means that Terah was then only 145 years old and would die in the town of Haran 80 years later at the age of 205), he, (Abram) started out from Haran, as the Lord had told him to do, taking Sarai and his nephew Lot with him. This is a biblical fact

Genesis 12: 6; When Abram arrived in Canaan with all the livestock, wealth and slaves that he had acquired while living in Haran, he travelled through the land until he came to ‘Moreh,’ a holy place at Shechem in the north of Canaan. It was there that God said to him, “This is the land that I am going to give to your descendants etc. How long did he stay at Shechem? Who knows?


Leaving Shechem, he moved south with all his slow moving livestock, until he came to a place in the hill country east of Bethel, where he set up his camp and remained there, for who knows how long? Later, he moved from place to place, heading toward the southern part of Canaan. How long did this take? Who knows?


It was at this time that the land of Canaan suffered a great drought and Abram entered the Land of Egypt, where he told the 68-69 year old Sarai to say that she was his sister, which she did. Being the most beautiful woman in the land of Egypt, the king took her for his wife. During the period of time that Sarai lived with the king, Abram was treated well and received gifts of flocks of sheep and goats, cattle, donkeys, slaves and camels etc. If Abram wasn’t already wealthy before he went into Egypt, he was certainly more so when he left. See genesis 12: 14-20.


After some period of time, the Lord sent terrible diseases on the poor deceived King who was genuinely unaware that Sarai was in fact the wife of Abram, whom he, the King, had treated so well while Sarai had lived with him as his wife. Genesis 12: 18; Then the king sent for Abram and asked him, “What have you done to me? Why didn’t you tell me that she was your wife? Why did you say that she was your sister and let me take her as my wife? Here is your wife; take her and get out!” The King then gave orders to his men, so they took Abram and put him out of the country, together with his wife and everything he owned, which included the gifts that he had received while Sarah lived with the King as his wife. Abram, was now a very rich man, with the sheep, goats and cattle, as well as silver and gold.

Lot’s family, slaves and livestock kept increasing as well as the increasing wealth of Abram, to the point, where they could no longer remain together and were forced to separate. Some time after the separation, how long? Who knows? There was a war between the kings in that land and Lot and his family were taken captive. When Abram found out, he gathered together 318 fighting men from among his slaves, and dividing his men into groups, he attacked Lots captors by night and defeated them, etc, returns the loot, receives the blessing from Melchizedek etc, etc.

And now, almost ten years have elapsed since Abram left his father Terah back in the town of Haran, Genesis 15: 1; After these things,(What things?) after Abram had received the blessing from Melchizedek, God makes his covenant with Abram, Genesis 15: verse 18; Then and there the Lord made a covenant with Abram (Not Abraham as yet) . He said, “I promise to give your descendants all this land etc, etc.

Genesis 16: 3; And Sarai Abrams wife, (Abram, not Abraham even yet) took Hagar her Egyptian maid, after Abram had dwelt 10 years in the land of Canaan and gave her to her husband. Abram was 85-86 when Ishmael was born: Genesis 17: And Abram was 99 when God sealed his covenant, changed his name to Abraham and promised that his 89 year old sister/wife, whose name had been changed to Sarah, would bear him a son who they were to name “Isaac.” God then introduced circumcision to seal the covenant. Ishmael was 13, when he was circumcised and 14 years old when Isaac was born in the 100th year of the life of Abraham.


Galatians 3: 17; “What I mean is that God made a covenant with Abraham and promised to keep it. The Law which was given four hundred and thirty years later, cannot break that covenant and cancel God’s promise.” The Law of the Lord was given to God's chosen children through Moses, 430 years after God had made his covenant with the 85 year old Abraham. Isaac was born 15 years after the covenant, he was sixty when Jacob was born, which was 75 years after the covenant, and Jacob entered Egypt when he was 130, which was 205 years after the covenant was made by God, which means that Moses gave the law to Abraham’s descendants, 225 years after Jacob/Israel and his family began their sojourn in the land of Ham the first born son of Noah.


Better go back and rectify your post young fellow, because the truth that you have been given here, is in accordance to the Holy Scriptures which you and I both believe are true in everyway, with the exception of some errors or yeast that has been added over the years.