lunamoth
Will to love
Is it ok for a POOR person to shop at Walmart then.
I'm sorry UV but I do not understand what you are driving at. I get it that you hate Walmart. What does this have to do with Jesus and heaven?
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Is it ok for a POOR person to shop at Walmart then.
No, I do not "hate" Walmart.
I shop there because I have no choice.
It's obvious that entry to heaven is an economic issue.
It has to do with poor people, and rich people.
Impoverished people on the other side of the world,
make stores like Walmart possible for you (and me).
It would seem important then to carefully analyze the economic truths
behind the establisments and agencies that we give profit, rise, and interest to.
Do you not agree?
Turning a blind eye to injustice... is hardly a valid excuse for ignorance.
UV ~ Jesus says "poor in spirit". there were many wealthy disciples of Jesus who supported Him and His disicples out of their own means, and others who gave everything they had to the poor. money is not evil, neither is having money. the desire for (or love of) money is the *root* of evil, as it tends to breed selfishness, corruption, pride, materialism, and vanity.
That's a good point UV. What do you think about it all as it relates to Christ and Christianity?
But when people hold others to a standard of judgement,
and then don't live up to their own standards...
you must admit, it begs comment.
I certainly did for the last three years I was a christian.So, you think it's hypocritical for Christians to have a church building.
How much of christianity is not ultimately tied up in a "Judgement" scenerio?In what way do you feel you are being held to a standard of judgement by Christians? I would say those quotes apply to everyone, regardless of religion.
I'm just trying to understand UV. Jesus seems to be saying that God is with the poor, and that we have a responsibility to love and take care of each other. So, Christians fail at this much of the time. Does that make the message wrong?
Smoke and Auto ~yet this passage is directly related to Ezekiel 34:11-31, where God is described as gathering His people from the nations, those same "sheep and goats" of Matthew 25:31-46. the connection here is that God the Father speaks in Ezekiel 34, and Jesus the Son reveals in Matthew 25 that it is He who will seperate the sheep and the goats. this is an interesting passage, and relates back to Ezekiel, giving more creedance to the idea that Jesus is God in flesh.when compared to Ezekiel it is clear that the sheep and goats are peoples who have already known God, and belong to Him (as the sheep of John 10). thus this judgement of the nations by Jesus is not a judgement for everyone, Christian and non-Christian. it is a judgement for those from the nations (all of them) who have been called by Jesus' Name, and believed in Him. this is further supported by Jesus' being called "Lord" by those peoples He judges in Matthew 25, and by the familiarity with which those peoples address Jesus (meaning they are already familiar with Him and ask when they saw Him naked or lonely).this is my interpretation of the text, but it is supported by passages in Ezekiel as well as John and Matthew, that this judgement of the nations is one for the diverse nations of believers, professing and genuine. see also Matthew 7:21-23 for evidence that this judgement is for those who have already known of and professed to follow Jesus ("Lord, Lord....did we not do so many things in Your Name?"), not for all peoples.
Well, I can see your point. I personally think that community and worship are important parts of the Christian religion so it practically makes sense to have a place to come together to worship. But, I also agree that the building and other trappings can become more of an obstacle than a help, and I would agree that while a beautiful building that evokes the glory of God is wonderful, it should not be the primary focus. In fact, I would say that it can become something that gets between us and God.I certainly did for the last three years I was a christian.
Now, honeslty, I really don't care enough to have much of an opinion about it.
I mean... it doesn't concern me. I'm not a christian.
You know? It's not my business.
How much of christianity is not ultimately tied up in a "Judgement" scenerio?
Judgement is part of the Christian perspective, but we are also instructed to not judge others. Hell is about separation from God, and judgement is discernment of those things that come between us and God (including those church buildings when they become more important than our relationship with God and each other). So, we rightly should be concerned with judgement. We strive to judge so we can align our will with God's, so we judge the actions of others as part of the choices we make for ourselves. But, as Booko would say, its above our pay grade to judge other people. Our job with each other is to love each other as we love ourselves.If not, what is hell all about?
How many christians do not concern themselves at all with the "Judgement" teachings
of their religion?
It's a general mind'set of the christian religion itself.
What I really dislike as a non-christian, of course, is when christians try and
True, I don't like that either. But even without Christianity in the picture we always are going to face the questions about how we live together peacefully in community when we don't agree with each other.en'force their own standards on me, in my own personal life.
(and most especially by means of civil law)
GLBTP issues would be an obvious one.
Issues that don't affect me/other non-christians
I am glad you do. You responded to the Bible passages I posted with some challenging comments, so I wanted to find out where you are coming from. I wanted to make sure I understood your view and give you my perspective on the topic.I figure, are not my business.
I don't go around looking for specks & logs in people's eyes.
I'm not the "hypocracy" police.
(christian or otherwise)
I have better things to do.
But this is a religious forum,
and these topics come up. so, I share my thoughts.
Also, I am an individualist.
OK. Sounds good!Individuals have their own reasons for doing what they do.
I respect that right, and I never pretend to know
"why" a person does what they do.
Not all christians "go to church" for the same reasons. Obviously.
If they get something out of it they need, I'm all for that.
Why wouldn't I be?
On the flip side there is the harsh punishment of the rich.
I don't read this as harsh punishment of the rich. As ayani said, it is not about being rich, but about how you use your wealth (or whatever other gifts you have).Who ARE the rich?
How much rich, makes someone rich?
I'm the one always saying the little people REALLY need to take care of one another,
before we ALL get so depleted no one has anything at all.
People do not pool their talents and resources.
So everyone goes down, in their little nuclear family boat,
and all the good they have to offer goes down with them,
because they did not WISELY combine their talents and resources.
(reminds me of a parable...)
It would behove us all to love and take care of one another.
But this does not mean charity to me.
This means expanded family. The family of humanity.
For me this is not a christian issue, but a human one.
Also, god is not 'with' the rich /or the poor IMO.
OK.But my idea of gOd is significantly different than yours,
and is not really on topic for this thread.
What if you shop at Walmart and other establisments
that take advantage of poor people for low wage (pittance) labor,
so you can have cheap stuff.
(and extra change to stick in the poor box at your church
once you've helped pay the mortgage on the church building.)
17As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" 18"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is goodexcept God alone. 19You know the commandments: 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honor your father and mother.'[d]"
20"Teacher," he declared, "all these I have kept since I was a boy."
21Jesus looked at him and loved him. "One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
22At this the man's face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.
23Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!"
24The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, "Children, how hard it is[e] to enter the kingdom of God! 25It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
26The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, "Who then can be saved?"
27Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God."
28Peter said to him, "We have left everything to follow you!"
29"I tell you the truth," Jesus replied, "no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel 30will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age (homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fieldsand with them, persecutions) and in the age to come, eternal life. 31But many who are first will be last, and the last first." (Mark 10)
no one answered my walmart question.
What if you shop at Walmart and other establisments
that take advantage of poor people for low wage (pittance) labor,
so you can have cheap stuff.
(and extra change to stick in the poor box at your church
once you've helped pay the mortgage on the church building.)
Lives there a Christian on earth with the sincerity to follow this passage?