Wives, be submissive to your Husbands

Ceridwen018 · Jun 12, 2005

The other day, Spinkles was telling me about a Christian radio show that he had been listening to, and it really got me thinking.

On the show, the man speaking was explaining the relationship between Christian husbands and wives. He said that many women were under the misconception that under the Bible's teachings, they were obligated to be completely submissive to their husbands at all times. The man on the show clarified that this was not so: If a woman was being abused by her husband, being asked to do something wrong, etc., that she should by all means refuse, (however, she still wouldn't be allowed to get a divorce, I assume).

The man on the show went on to explain just what the Bible means when it calls for women to be submissive to their husbands. He made an analogy about cars on a highway. When a car is trying to merge on the highway, and another car is in the merging lane, one of the cars is going to have to yield to the other or there will be a crash. Those are the times, said the man, when a woman should be submissive to her husband--when there's going to be a crash.

He then made another analogy. He siad that there can only be one head to a household, because something with two heads is a monster. If a couple tries to run their household jointly, it will become a monster of a situation.

Now, having said all of that, this is where I disagree: I do not think that women should be expected to "yield" to their husbands whenever there is a potential conflict. I think, (having never myself been married, granted), that a marriage is about compromise, and both partners should be expected to yeild to the other from time to time. Second, I do not think that a happy home must be limited to "one head". Of course, I can see how that could make things easier, but I don't see how it could make anyone happier. If a couple is made up of mature adults, they should be able to handle different situations together and work out problems together, should they not?

So then, what are your views on this issue, which I understand can be very sensitive at times. Are there Christian men and women who disagree with this as I do? Any who agree with it? Non-Christian replies are welcome as well, of course.

Circle_One · Jun 12, 2005

This makes me think of a story my boyfriend told me not long ago.

Years ago he was on a field trip with his Christian Youth group and he got into a conversation regarding this very topic with the wife of the (pastor/priest/whatever..I'm not sure what he is called). The wife told him that Christian wives are to be submissive to their husbands at all costs and should always do as they say. My boyfriend then asked (as they were standing at a crosswalk) that if her husband told her not to cross the road, though she needed to, would she? And she responded that no, she would not. Even though it is such an inane command, she would still obey. He then asked if her husband told her to cross the road, even though there were cars coming and her crossing would cause her to get hit by a car, would she then cross? She replied that yes, even if her crossing at that exact moment would cause her to get hit by a car, she would still cross, simply because her husband had told her to.

Personally, I think this is ridiculous. It's one thing to believe your religion tells you to obey what someone says, if it's for the betterment of something, but to believe the bible says you are to be so submissive to this extent...it's just a bit much.

Linus · Jun 12, 2005

Love is the key to all of this. The passages that speak of husband-wife realtionships (Ephesians 5, Colossians 3, and 1 Peter 3 are the only ones that come to mind) speak of them within the context of love and understanding. The wife is to submit to the husband, but the husband is to respect, love, honor, and listen to his wife. He should love her as Christ loves the church and died for it (Eph 5:25).

Should women submit when there is a conflict? Yes. But the men should be open enough and love their wives enough to listen to what they have to say, take it to heart, and then make a decision.

jimbob · Jun 12, 2005

Never even having a girlfriend, i don't know how valid my answer is, but i agree with ceridwen. it seems that if two people lvoe each other, they shouldn't have to label themselves to certain positions, but rather share their lives completely.

njcl · Jun 12, 2005

hmmm the woman who said she would cross the road full of cars is nothing short of an automon {sp}.paul doesnt mean for a wife to blindly obey everything her husband tells her,its no different really than a conventional well adjusted marriage except in the religious department as the man has authority over his wife there,i recall paul said the man has no power over his own body in a marriage as he is owned by the wife and vice versa,so thats equality

Uncertaindrummer · Jun 12, 2005

Linus said:
Love is the key to all of this. The passages that speak of husband-wife realtionships (Ephesians 5, Colossians 3, and 1 Peter 3 are the only ones that come to mind) speak of them within the context of love and understanding. The wife is to submit to the husband, but the husband is to respect, love, honor, and listen to his wife. He should love her as Christ loves the church and died for it (Eph 5:25).

Should women submit when there is a conflict? Yes. But the men should be open enough and love their wives enough to listen to what they have to say, take it to heart, and then make a decision.

Indeed. I agree with just about everything there.

michel · Jun 12, 2005

Yes, my wife is submissive to me. I make the important decisions in this house; she has no say whatsoever - except for minor day to day trivialties.

She decides where we are going to live, what I should eat, what I should wear, how the house is decorated, what car we should have, while I get on with the 'important matters', such as what music I should listen to (with headphones on), what color ink to use, what socket I will plug the lawnmower plug in........:biglaugh:

IMO, marriage (or any stable relationship) is a partnership; we both have qualities, strengths and weaknesses -one complements the other - I wouldn't have it any other way.

Terrywoodenpic · Jun 12, 2005

michel said:
Yes, my wife is submissive to me. I make the important decisions in this house; she has no say whatsoever - except for minor day to day trivialties.

She decides where we are going to live, what I should eat, what I should wear, how the house is decorated, what car we should have, while I get on with the 'important matters', such as what music I should listen to (with headphones on), what color ink to use, what socket I will plug the lawnmower plug in........:biglaugh:

IMO, marriage (or any stable relationship) is a partnership; we both have qualities, strengths and weaknesses -one complements the other - I wouldn't have it any other way.

Agreed

When councils used to send documents for the head of the household to fill in, I always asked the wife to do it. Several times things were sent back saying I had to sign for Her. I don't think this goes on now. Things have moved on.

Terry

____________________________________
Blessed are those who bring peace, they shall be children of God

njcl · Jun 12, 2005

michel said:
Yes, my wife is submissive to me. I make the important decisions in this house; she has no say whatsoever - except for minor day to day trivialties.

She decides where we are going to live, what I should eat, what I should wear, how the house is decorated, what car we should have, while I get on with the 'important matters', such as what music I should listen to (with headphones on), what color ink to use, what socket I will plug the lawnmower plug in........:biglaugh:

IMO, marriage (or any stable relationship) is a partnership; we both have qualities, strengths and weaknesses -one complements the other - I wouldn't have it any other way.

lol......post of the day......................im getting married in the future though not particually looking forward to it,anywhere on the internet i can buy children instead?........:woohoo:

Sunstone · Jun 12, 2005

I look for a partner I can work with rather than a submissive person. My first wife was submissive and the experience of that left me fed up with submissive wives. I think a partnership works better in so far as it brings out the strenghts in both people.

michel · Jun 12, 2005

njcl said:
lol......post of the day......................im getting married in the future though not particually looking forward to it,anywhere on the internet i can buy children instead?........:woohoo:

Oh no, you've got to experience the whole thing; I was there at the birth of my two, and, I'm not slow in admitting, I don't think there's a parallel emotion that watching your baby breathe for the first time.

Pah · Jun 12, 2005

Linus said:
Love is the key to all of this. The passages that speak of husband-wife realtionships (Ephesians 5, Colossians 3, and 1 Peter 3 are the only ones that come to mind) speak of them within the context of love and understanding. The wife is to submit to the husband, but the husband is to respect, love, honor, and listen to his wife. He should love her as Christ loves the church and died for it (Eph 5:25).

Should women submit when there is a conflict? Yes. But the men should be open enough and love their wives enough to listen to what they have to say, take it to heart, and then make a decision.

I'm sorry that sounds like a beneficient slave master. It is couched in the terms of a partnership but there is a fist of iron under that velvet glove.

Sunstone · Jun 12, 2005

I wonder how much of the "be submissive to your husbands" notion is an adaptation to arranged marriages? In many arranged marriages, the spouses were not particularily well suited to each other, but divorce was unheard of. So, one might suppose, there were many issues in those marriages that the spouses could not find a compromise on. Hence, a need to have one spouse dominate the other.

Fluffy · Jun 12, 2005

I believe that in my perfect relationship, my wife would walk into that road had I asked her to, simply because she would trust me perfectly. And I would readily do the same. Afterall, you can't really expect of others what you aren't fully prepared to do yourself.

For me, a relationship is the joining of two people. Everything is now mutual and everything is done together as if as one.

But maybe Im just over possessive. I'll just have to hope my wife is as well.

Melody · Jun 12, 2005

Linus said:
Love is the key to all of this. The passages that speak of husband-wife realtionships (Ephesians 5, Colossians 3, and 1 Peter 3 are the only ones that come to mind) speak of them within the context of love and understanding. The wife is to submit to the husband, but the husband is to respect, love, honor, and listen to his wife. He should love her as Christ loves the church and died for it (Eph 5:25).

Should women submit when there is a conflict? Yes. But the men should be open enough and love their wives enough to listen to what they have to say, take it to heart, and then make a decision.

A man can love his wife enough to listen and take to heart, but still lack whatever common sense is necessary to come to the right decision. Should a wife submit in those cases? I don't think so.

God made Eve to be a helpmate for Adam....not a doormat. My husband and I talk over all of our major decisions. Sometimes I give in to his logic. Sometimes he gives in to mine. I love my husband and he is the most logical person I know, but sometimes he acts like the typical absent minded professor. In such moments, it's my duty to protect him from himself. Which is why I just had all new brakes, drums, shocks and wheel bearings replaced on his deathtrap truck...against his wishes. After the deed is done, he usually agrees I was right.

Submit? Don't think so.

Melody · Jun 12, 2005

Fluffy said:
I believe that in my perfect relationship, my wife would walk into that road had I asked her to, simply because she would trust me perfectly. And I would readily do the same. Afterall, you can't really expect of others what you aren't fully prepared to do yourself.

Fluffy,
I don't think you're off base. If my husband asked me to walk into the road, I'd probably do it because I trust him with my life and know he wouldn't ask me if it would cause me harm.

Scuba Pete · Jun 12, 2005

This is one of those passages that perplex me. Was the author writing to the customs of the times? I would think so, but it's oh so hard to know for certain. I truly believe that we really have two commandments: Love God and Love everyone else. How does this fit into that agenda?

I must say that my wife is not sumissive, though I would say that she is every bit as spiritual as I am. There are indeed some things about the scriptures that I probably won't understand until I pass on. It appears that my heart is just not open to the truth, but hopefully that will change one day.

I think this passage sums up the goal of this and really ALL commands in the Bible...

I Timothy 1:5The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. NIV

EnhancedSpirit · Jun 12, 2005

KJV:Ephesians 5:21-33 21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God. 22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. 28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. 29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: 30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. 31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

The Message:
21 Out of respect for Christ, be courteously reverent to one another. 22 Wives, understand and support your husbands in ways that show your support for Christ. 23 The husband provides leadership to his wife the way Christ does to his church, not by domineering but by cherishing. 24 So just as the church submits to Christ as he exercises such leadership, wives should likewise submit to their husbands. 25 Husbands, go all out in your love for your wives, exactly as Christ did for the church - a love marked by giving, not getting. 26 Christ's love makes the church whole. His words evoke her beauty. Everything he does and says is designed to bring the best out of her, 27 dressing her in dazzling white silk, radiant with holiness. 28 And that is how husbands ought to love their wives. They're really doing themselves a favor - since they're already "one" in marriage. 29 No one abuses his own body, does he? No, he feeds and pampers it. That's how Christ treats us, the church, 30 since we are part of his body. 31 And this is why a man leaves father and mother and cherishes his wife. No longer two, they become "one flesh." 32 This is a huge mystery, and I don't pretend to understand it all. What is clearest to me is the way Christ treats the church. 33 And this provides a good picture of how each husband is to treat his wife, loving himself in loving her, and how each wife is to honor her husband.

njcl · Jun 12, 2005

Sunstone said:
I look for a partner I can work with rather than a submissive person. My first wife was submissive and the experience of that left me fed up with submissive wives. I think a partnership works better in so far as it brings out the strenghts in both people.

and more arguments with a head strong lady type, i like the submissive type myself though im refering to girlfriends as i have never been married

EnhancedSpirit · Jun 12, 2005

God created the Woman
Not from the dust of the earth to be a competitor with him*, but from his own rib - that he should love her as his own body.
Not from his Feet, that he should walk over her,
Nor from his head, that she should rule over him,
Nor from his hand, that she should be his servant, waiting on him hand and foot,
But from his rib** - that she should be beside and held close to his heart.
God did not make him a pet, nor a slave, but a mate, to share life with together.

Like dog - she was loyal and affectionate, with eyes that adored him and filled with joy and excitement at his coming home from the Garden. But like Cat - she could be moody and given to whims. She saw man as he actually was and not as he thought he was. Her smile or laughter filled him with joy - made him excited to begin each new day. Her tears could move his heart and rouse him to heroic action. But he couldm't play rough with her like with the dog, and unlike cat she seemed to always want his attention. For Eve was no pet!

After a time, Adam came to God - "About this woman you made?" "Yes?"
"Why did you make her beautiful?" "So you will always want to look at her."
"Why so soft?" "So you will always want to touch her, and be gentle with her."
"Why does she smells so good?" "So you will always want to be near her." "Then why does she sometimes cry for no reason? And why does she laugh at my foolishness? I can't begin to understand how she thinks. Why can't she be just like me?" "I made her a compliment to you - a helper suitable for you. Not a copy of you, but your opposite to complete you."
" Why can't she be just like me?" "She is everything that you aren't."
"No wonder I just can't seem live with her? She cries sometimes for no reason." "I made her emotional on purpose."
"She laughs at my foolishness." "I gave her intuition"
"Her moods change like the moon." "She will need these things to be the mother of your children."
Sometimes when I reach out to touch her she just pushes me away. I can't live with her?" "She wasn't meant to be a pet. But perhaps I could find you another pet . . . a fish perhaps, they are interesting creatures? A creature you could be happier with."

Wives, be submissive to your Husbands

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