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What is the Use of Prayer?
- Thread starter rojse
- Start date
rojse
RF Addict
I myself never got the idea of saying prayers for a loved one, whether it be a loved one of an acquaintance or even a loved family member. I mean, doesn't God know what is happening and how much this loved one means to those around the individual in question?
I suppose it is a good way of saying "I hope things work out for the best for you" but beyond that, I don't understand.
I suppose it is a good way of saying "I hope things work out for the best for you" but beyond that, I don't understand.
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
When facing something I perceive to be beyond my control praying is something that gives me ease. No doubt it can be argued that prayer is objectively useless. Subjectively speaking it feels useful.
rojse
RF Addict
Your thread was actually one of the threads that prompted this, StephenW, the thread where you requested prayer for exams. Hope you don't mind.
Prayers will alleviate your mood for study and exams (exams being the subject of StephenW's prayer request). I can understand that part. However, how is me praying on your behalf more beneficial to you than me wishing you luck for your exams?
And, BTW, while RF is quite interesting, probably should not be on while you are studying for exams - I don't think prayer is a substitute for study.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Shall we expand immediately to the various types of prayer?
Spells, incantations, mantras, etc.
When I was younger, rosaries were everywhere.
But Scripture makes note not to pray in repetition.
I agree.
I reserve my intention to those moments when need is pressing.
I don't like to bother the Boss, unless I really need to.
Even so, prayer is more of a cognitive 'shout' or 'whisper', depending on the need at hand.
Spells, incantations, mantras, etc.
When I was younger, rosaries were everywhere.
But Scripture makes note not to pray in repetition.
I agree.
I reserve my intention to those moments when need is pressing.
I don't like to bother the Boss, unless I really need to.
Even so, prayer is more of a cognitive 'shout' or 'whisper', depending on the need at hand.
Prayer is talking to God. Whether or not you believe in God, you can talk to Him. If you don't believe in God, it is like, I suppose, talking to yourself. And if you do believe in God, then it is like having a conversation with someone you love.
rojse
RF Addict
Prayer is whatever you want it to mean. If I start defining things, I limit where the conversation can go. I really don't want that, and I don't think the other posters do, either.
However, the tradition of prayer that I am accustomed to is that prayer is a ritualised attempt to establish a connection with God in some manner. Obviously, I'm interested in different definitions, and am open to new definitions here.
rojse
RF Addict
And what use do you see in prayer, ChristineES?
For me, personally, I use prayer to talk to God. Sometimes I do the ritual thing of bowing my head and and so on, but there are times when I just look up and talk to Him. Anyone seeing me would think I was talking to myself, but since I say "God" or "Father" when I do it, they may know that I am talking to God. The ritual way is requests and stuff and the other way is just one-way conversation (or two-way, depending on how you look at it) and it makes me feel as though someone is listening to me (my husband and children always interrupt me, making me feel as though they don't listen to one thing I say to them. My mom used to dominate all conversations, also, when I was a kid).
rojse
RF Addict
But you believe in an omniprescent God - why would you need to tell him your problems when He already knows them? Is God the equivalent of a psychiatrist (not trying to be insulting with the analogy) in this regard, an ear to listen to your troubles and not judge you?
I admit that I find that a curious way to phrase the question. Does everything we do have to be viewed in terms of how it's useful to us?
In it's most basic sense, prayer is an act which allows us to connect to and communicate with the divine -- in my case, that would be my gods.
It allows us to make a connection in which we communicate and pour out our thoughts, our hopes, our dreams, our needs, our shortcomings, and everything else. And it provides us with a chance to receive back insight, understanding, and advice.
In my faith, prayer really is a two-way street. I don't just talk to my gods. They talk back to me. Sometimes, they do so all but literally. At other times, they provide their input in more subtle ways, such as a moment of inspiration or a moment of serendipity.
Prayer strengthens me. Prayer changes me. Prayer even challenges me. Because those are the results of contact with the gods.
rojse
RF Addict
It seems obvious to me that a theist would find some use in prayer, otherwise, why would the practice continue after thousands of years?
rojse
RF Addict
If God wanted to talk to you, wouldn't He be able to do so directly?
Does prayer, for you, help to establish a rapport with God that does not exist outside of prayer?
Dunemeister
Well-Known Member
To answer this question, I give you the paradigmatic Christian prayer, the so-called Lord's Prayer. I give you the version at it appears in the Gospel According to St. Matthew in the New Revised Standard Version translation:
Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name.
Your kingdom come. Your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
And do not bring us to the time of trial, but rescue us from the evil one.
What are the purposes (uses) of this prayer? Well, the first line centers us and reminds us of the reality in which we move. For the Christian, God is "our Father". That is already redolent with connotations, but then there is also "in heaven." There is intimacy and authority and sovereignty expressed here. As we pray the rest of the prayer, we do so keeping these things in mind. Thus one purpose of prayer (this prayer at least) is to serve as a reminder of what is truly real: God is in heaven; he does as he pleases; he is our God, and we his people.
The second line is our heart's cry that things would be so on earth as they are in heaven. That is, just as all things go according to God's loving design in heaven, we express our longing that it should be so in our experience. This is the "petition" side of prayer. The question was asked why we should do this if God is omniscient. Well obviously we don't "inform" God about anything. He knows our needs before we ask. But by permitting us to ask, God invites us to participate with him in the provision of answers to prayer. God does in fact do things because his people ask. (Of course he's always free to act unilaterally.) And finally, because we are always in the position of asking (rather than commanding, willing, etc.), we cultivate humility. Nothing is more grotesquely distorting and self-congratulating than the delusion that we are in control of our fates.
The third line again expresses our dependency upon God. It serves as a reminder to us once again that everything we have comes from the hand of God. This is a useful reminder and dovetails neatly with the previous petition for God's will to be done on earth as in heaven.
The fourth line asks God to forgive us our debts. This is both literal (speaking of financial debt) and metaphorical (speaking of sins, what might be considered moral debt). But notice that our debts are to be forgiven AS we forgive others. I cannot expect God to forgive my debt if I hold a grudge against my neighbour. This part of the prayer therefore serves to remind me of both my moral failings and the hope that they can be overcome. This prayer is the vehicle through which both gifts come to me.
The last petition is simply a prayer that we be able to live our lives without persecution. We ask that we would be rescued from the evil one, which may mean being rescued from physical harm, from temptation to sin, or from evil people. We ask this even though we know that living a godly life will bring us no shortage of trouble.
So what use is prayer? Well, at least in the case of this prayer, it forms us as a people (that is, if we actually pray it and take it seriously). It changes us into the sort of people God intends us to be. So prayer is not merely about getting stuff I think I need. Prayer is about cultivating character, especially such virtues as faith, humility, patience, love, hope, and gratitude.
Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name.
Your kingdom come. Your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
And do not bring us to the time of trial, but rescue us from the evil one.
What are the purposes (uses) of this prayer? Well, the first line centers us and reminds us of the reality in which we move. For the Christian, God is "our Father". That is already redolent with connotations, but then there is also "in heaven." There is intimacy and authority and sovereignty expressed here. As we pray the rest of the prayer, we do so keeping these things in mind. Thus one purpose of prayer (this prayer at least) is to serve as a reminder of what is truly real: God is in heaven; he does as he pleases; he is our God, and we his people.
The second line is our heart's cry that things would be so on earth as they are in heaven. That is, just as all things go according to God's loving design in heaven, we express our longing that it should be so in our experience. This is the "petition" side of prayer. The question was asked why we should do this if God is omniscient. Well obviously we don't "inform" God about anything. He knows our needs before we ask. But by permitting us to ask, God invites us to participate with him in the provision of answers to prayer. God does in fact do things because his people ask. (Of course he's always free to act unilaterally.) And finally, because we are always in the position of asking (rather than commanding, willing, etc.), we cultivate humility. Nothing is more grotesquely distorting and self-congratulating than the delusion that we are in control of our fates.
The third line again expresses our dependency upon God. It serves as a reminder to us once again that everything we have comes from the hand of God. This is a useful reminder and dovetails neatly with the previous petition for God's will to be done on earth as in heaven.
The fourth line asks God to forgive us our debts. This is both literal (speaking of financial debt) and metaphorical (speaking of sins, what might be considered moral debt). But notice that our debts are to be forgiven AS we forgive others. I cannot expect God to forgive my debt if I hold a grudge against my neighbour. This part of the prayer therefore serves to remind me of both my moral failings and the hope that they can be overcome. This prayer is the vehicle through which both gifts come to me.
The last petition is simply a prayer that we be able to live our lives without persecution. We ask that we would be rescued from the evil one, which may mean being rescued from physical harm, from temptation to sin, or from evil people. We ask this even though we know that living a godly life will bring us no shortage of trouble.
So what use is prayer? Well, at least in the case of this prayer, it forms us as a people (that is, if we actually pray it and take it seriously). It changes us into the sort of people God intends us to be. So prayer is not merely about getting stuff I think I need. Prayer is about cultivating character, especially such virtues as faith, humility, patience, love, hope, and gratitude.
Morse
To Extinguish
While it is obvious a theist would defend prayer, I personally see no benefit from it. The machine for everything is science, whether the machine was built by circumstance or the divine is not for me to say, as I would not know. So instead of appealing to a force I cannot possibly know, I examine the machine itself. Of course, when examining the machine I begin to speculate about the creator of said machine, but that is entirely subjective.
But what I said above is vague, I'll summarize and possibly clarify.
Do I pray? No.
Do I see the use in Prayer? Yes I see why theists would, but I don't.
What do I do? I seek to understand and learn. Its my substitution for prayer.
But what I said above is vague, I'll summarize and possibly clarify.
Do I pray? No.
Do I see the use in Prayer? Yes I see why theists would, but I don't.
What do I do? I seek to understand and learn. Its my substitution for prayer.
rojse
RF Addict
Some questions naturally arise from this:
1) Is this prayer in particular making any requests (can't think of a more appropriate word) of God? Is it used before making a request of God? Is it just a general "Hey God, wanted to say hello"? Or is it merely ritual?
2) Would God intervene as a result of prayer, even if occasionally, should you request it?
As a separate note, my relatively limited knowledge of Catholic ritual tells me that this isn't the version of the prayer that I am accustomed to. How are the other versions of the prayer different? If there are differences between multiple versions of the prayer, could it be that it is not the words themself that are important, but the emotions and feelings behind the words?
well, bear in mind that I'm not a Christian. My gods aren't big on the whole burning bush/pillar of fire/thunderous voice thing. They prefer a bit more subtlety. But I'd say they can be pretty direct, too.
I'd say it's more like it helps maintain and strengthen that rapport.
You misunderstood my point. Sometimes, it's not always about "what's in it for us." We aren't the center of the universe, after all. Some of the things we do may be for other reasons than to provide us with some direct or immediate benefit.
dawny0826
Mother Heathen
I believe prayer is the best way to connect and communicate with God and I don't believe that prayer is ever useless. God answers prayer in His own timing. We may not receive the results that we seek and in the time frame that we hope for but God does answer and His timing is always perfect.