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Was Muhammad a Prophet?

Zxzyx

Member
This is a continuation of a debate I placed in the wrong area of this site. The below is a response to a link offered proving Muhammad’s Prophethood. Anyone can chip in.



Firstly I must ask what your personal opinions are on anyone who insults anyone of a different opinion to their own at the outset of a paper they have written. To quote ‘None but an infidel, who out of arrogance alone, could deny these signs.’ I think Sh. `Abdur Rahman `Abdul Khaliq has himself defined arrogance by this very statement. Also is he thinking in realistic terms when he hopes this piece of writing will reach ever ear, eye and heart? This shows the character and motives of the author which I think is important.



The author then goes on to mix conjecture with gross inaccuracies. Comments relating to Muhammad’s character I imagine are taken from biased source i.e. a people who would have had a lot to lose from saying bad things and equally much to gain from any good said. If he were known as being truthful and trustworthy among all his people then he would not have met with any opposition, which we know he did in his early years. I have heard it said that Muhammad spent a lot of time travelling around in his youth and would have very likely heard many stories from different religions along the way, which would put into doubt Muhammad’s complete lack of knowledge on religion prior to his revelation. Also Muhammad grew up in an area where there were all sorts of beliefs around him including Judaism and Christianity. How could he have possibly avoided hearing any of these over 40 years?

The author then goes on to claim ‘This Koran mentioned most of the accounts found in the previous scriptures, telling us about these events in the greatest detail as if he witnessed them.’ The Qur’an is physically about one quarter of the size of the Bible so the first part of this claim is impossible. Secondly most of the Biblical stories mentioned in the Qur’an are sketchy and strangely similar to those told by sects that predate Muhammad’s time.

All this is only relating to the introduction and first point. My point of all this is to ask ‘are we just to accept what this man says?’ He offers few Qur’anic references and even those are not given with sura and verse. My conclusion is that the author is a man a putting across his own point of view, claiming it as fact and dissuading anyone from refuting it with pre-emptive insults. I don’t know who this works with but would he believe the same style of writing on a different religion?

Zyzyx
 

Zxzyx

Member
Every prophet in the Bible had to prove that what they spoke was from God. God enabled them to perform miracles that a false prophet could not. There is a list at the end of Deut:18 (I think) of things a prophet must do so people will not be conned by every smooth talker who claims what they say is from God. I have looked into what proofs Muhammad offered and found none. I did find three passages in the Qur'an where Muhammad was asked for these proofs but failed to deliver. One time he claims he too was waiting for these signs, but in the Bible the signs always came first. Another time he claims the Qur'an should be enough. That is like saying 'the proof that what I am saying is from God is because I say so'.

I do not expect anyone to give me solid proof that Muhammad was a prophet but to offer me something more than I have read so far. Most of what I have read in Muhammad's favour so far says 'Muhammad was the prophet of God, FACT' Surely there is more than that. The above was a response to just that but the author of that link just said the same thing.
 

Cordoba

Well-Known Member
The way you've started this thread, it's clear, as confirmed from past experience, that you are looking for an argument, rather than searching for the Truth.

Did you read the links I posted to you some days ago with quotations from the OT and the NT which foretold the prophecy of Muhammad, peace be upon him?

Here they are again:

Muhammad the Bible:
http://www.islamicity.com/Mosque/Muhammad_Bible.HTM

What all Christians and Jews MUST Know about the Bible:
http://www.muhammad.net/biblelp/
 

alex60

Member
From Ishmail to Muhammad there are no islamic prophets,Islam refers to the Hebrew and Jewish prophets right down to Jesus as their own.Mohammed married a 9 year old girl Aisha,what prophet?Create your own prophets with your allah,leave the Christians and Jewish prophets and God alone.
 

Kotaro

Member
Marrying a little girl and copulating with her at 9 years old isn't a sign of some great prophet of an allmighty god, it is called sexual abuse.
 

Kotaro

Member
forget about what it says in the Quran, just take a good rational look at the life of Muhammad and Aisha and tell me this is the great prophet whom none can compare. Should muslims portray Muhammad and take little girls into their home? And I expect an answer from the muslims here, a very good answer, otherwise read the facts about Islam before you conclude to such extremes as Muhammad being the great prophet, or even a prophet at all:

http://www.apostatesofislam.com/
 

Peace

Quran & Sunnah
Kotaro said:
Marrying a little girl and copulating with her at 9 years old isn't a sign of some great prophet of an allmighty god, it is called sexual abuse.
This subject was already raised in RF. this was my answer :

At that time and in the desert environment they were living in, the girls reach the age of puberty at a very early age. So at the age of 9 the girl is considered already mature and adult. That's why you couldn't find in any book that people at time objected or criticized the Prophet peace be upon him for marrying the mother of believers, our mother Aicha, may Allah be pleased with her. This shows that it was something of the norm and culture of that time not only for Muslims but also other religions. The mother of believers Safiya (may Allah be pleased with her) who was a Jew, before converting to Islam and married to our Prophet peace be upon him, she married Jew at the age of 9 as well. See it's something that was very common at that period.

The fact that Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him had more than 4 wives is motivated by purposes much more glorious and greater than what marriages normally aim at. His aim, peace be upon him, was to establish and maintain good relationship with different persons, tribes, religions... is what pushed him to do that and it was not of his own will but it was a command from God. His marriage to women from different tribes broke down the Arab tribes' enmity to Islam. Moreover, it was the Arab tradition to honour the in-law relations. it was, in fact, a means of consolidating relationships.

Peace
 

Zxzyx

Member
Cordoba

Hi glad you made it. In response to you comment on me just looking for an argument, how can I ask questions in a way to please you? I am trying to be respectful even when encouraged to read papers by the author of that 12 proofs who has little understanding of respect. I am just looking for something to engage my brain. Most of what he said seemed to be provable falsehoods and personal opinions.



I did read that link to Dr. James Badawi.

I have to say, what a strange idea for Muslims to offer the Bible (which they believe is corrupt) as proof of Muhammad. If any of the passages he used were proved not to be referring to Muhammad would Muslims admit that those passages were uncorrupted? I imagine not, they would go back to being ‘corrupt scriptures’. Is the Bible corrupt or not? You cannot have it both ways.



Next is the problem that occurs if all Badawi says is in fact true (for arguments sake). If God did plan Abraham’s firstborn to create the chosen nation and all that, what kind of God do you believe in. God decided on a plan and shared it with Abraham then man took over, changed everything and God did nothing about it. Are you saying that God’s plan was thwarted by mere humans directly after he came up with it? The Jews through history have been one of the most hated races and the Christians were intensely persecuted through their early years. I would say that the Bible’s chances of survival against all this is a miracle but this paper claims that God would not have been protecting it because it was false.

To me, a god that bungled every plan he came up with up until 630AD doesn’t bare thinking about, let alone being worthy of worship.

Feel free to comment on any of my comment on this paper and the other one. Ill read the last link when I have a chance.
If you would like to hear my opinions of the content of that paper, just ask.
Thank you for your time.

Zyzyx
 

Zxzyx

Member
Peace
Could Muhammad not have just adopted that girl as a daughter?
If not did he have to have sex with her to creat link with other tribes? He did have other wives for that.
Jesus never felt a need to please people. He said the truth even when it offended people because that was what they needed to hear,not what they wanted.
Zyzyx
 

Zxzyx

Member
You seem to avoiding the moral issue.

To most mind's (unfortunately not all) sex between a 40ish man and a 7 year old girl is detestable and wrong on every level.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should and I find it hard to believe that this was common practice in Arabia any time.
 

Kotaro

Member
So you are saying that it was common for old men to marry young girls, and you expect us to believe they didn't do detestable things to them in private? While outwardly Muhammad may have acted like he was marrying for their benefit, to protect them, etc. But apparently they did have child when she was very young......
 

Cordoba

Well-Known Member
<< You seem to avoiding the moral issue. >>

The moral issue as discussed many times before is that at the age of 9, the prophet's wife was mature and of age for marriage.

Early marriages in those days was usual.

Even in California, only a century ago, the age of consent was 10.

As I said before Zyzyx, there is no time to waste to argue for the sake of arguing.

"For you is your religion, and for me is my religion" (109:6)
 

niceguy

Active Member
Mohammed was a prophet, at least for the worlds muslims, of the simple reason that the Islamic world recognizes him as a such. There may be other reasons as well but this reason should suffice even for non muslims. If some scientist would be able to prove that he never existed, then this would change nothing since it's all just a question of faith and I got to respect that. Not that I think that will ever happen, the proofs for his existence seems to be a lot stronger then the proof that Jesus ever existed.
 

Zxzyx

Member
The Moral issue is not whether a girl is able to conceive at that age or not but that she is a child still and should be playing with skipping rope and listening to cheesy music not having sex with old men even if they are married.

Just because California said something was ok does not mean it is.

I’m not sure what your problem is with discussing fundamental Islamic issues. I keep reading that Islam is the thinking persons religion or the facts are many and obvious in it's favour. I just wanted to hear them but all I have been offered are people’s personal opinions and made up stuff that does not stand up to any analysis. Do these arguments you have offered me worked with you?

I would be very interested in hearing your comments on my comments on your links. Saying I am arguing just for the sake of it does not wash. You make it sound like I should just accept everything you send my way.

I hope to hear from you soon

Zyzyx
ps.I didn't think the existence of either man was in any serious doubt.
 

Pah

Uber all member
Zxzyx said:
The Moral issue is not whether a girl is able to conceive at that age or not but that she is a child still and should be playing with skipping rope and listening to cheesy music not having sex with old men even if they are married....
It is error to frame yesterday's morality in terms of today.
 
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