Do you understand the New Testament

AK4 · Sep 22, 2009

I mean no offense but I think this about your believes. We read in 1 Timothy 6:3 - 4, "If anyone advocate a different doctrine, and does not agree with sound words those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicion,"
AK4 the key words are "conforming to godliness" so how do I conform to godliness if God is as you say? You do have a thing about words, and a morbid interest about controversial questions. I love you as a brother but what you say is not correct, my will is under his will, "no my will but your will be done" My Email address is in my profile please get in contact with me so I can send you that document.

Well, I do understand how you may feel, it happens to all of us who God may be choosing. Its part of the process that He puts His elect through. Too big of a subject right now to explain.

Heres the thing, the keywords in that verse to me isIf anyone advocate a different doctrine, and does not agree with sound words those of our Lord Jesus Christ.” A different doctrine than Jesus’. Lets see. If you only you knew how much the “church” have taught different doctrines than Jesus, not agreeing with sound words and you were able to see how deep these doctrines have penetrated into “main stream” and now are accepted as truths. How do you think the devil has deceived the whole world? Why do so many underestimate satan and his subtle ways of deceiving yet give him so much power and “praise” on almost everything else? Its become so main stream in our thinking we don’t even know we are deceived. Almost any doctrine taught by these “churches” when you really get to the meat of their doctrines is false and contradictory to the Word. That’s a fact. And the way you find out is actually “searching for that treasure, that pearl of great price” which requires you to go to the original words of our Lord (is it not the words of our Lord when He is using one of the Apostles and Prophets to speak for Him?) and not just depend on what these translations and preachers say.

So of course it may seem to those who are still deceived that one who is not deceived any more is advocating a different doctrine. Could it be that when one of the ones who are not deceived tries to show the deceived that the ones who actually have been “advocating a different doctrine” is actually the “church” and that they may be the ones who is actually advocating the real doctrine—with sound words--- that actually agree with our Lord Jesus Christ?

Let me give you an example of this and tell me if I am wrong. Most churches and the world teach that Jesus will not save the world/everyone. Why? Because of translations of unsound words and also of their own teachings. How does one really get the truth? The world, the churches, they all teach that when one dies in their sins they are LOST DESTROYED for ever and Jesus will not save them, they will burn and be tortured for ever or just flat out annihilated.

You check your bible and boom well I guess their right. You check what the original words were you find out you’ve been lied to and deceived not just by the world, but by your church, by Satan and you see how clever it really was. Here is a beautiful lesson that will show you just how important it sometimes is to know from what original word a word in our English translations came.

Here is the temporary fate of most humanity:
"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to DESTRUCTION, and many there be which go in thereat" (Matt. 7:13).

Did Jesus come to SAVE all those who enter the broad gate to "destruction?" YES HE DID:
"For the Son of man is come to SAVE that which was LOST" (Matt. 18:11)!

There it is!

There is what? Where does that verse say that Jesus came to "SAVE that which was DESTROYED?" Why right in the verse, of course. You see, the New Testament was written in GREEK, and in Greek, here is what Matt. 18:11 says: "For the Son of man is come to SAVE that which was apollumi."And just what does apollumi mean in English? Strong’s Greek Dictionary of the New Testament: "#622 {92x} apollumi to destroy, to perish, or lose" (page 37). Ninety-two times in the New Testament we read of "destroy, destruction, destroyed/perish, perishing, perished/lose and lost, and they are all translated from the same one word, apollumi! So whether one is destroyed, perished, or lost, it matters not to Jesus—HE SAVES THEM ALL!

Old Testament too:
"O Israel, you have DESTROYED yourself; but in Me is your help… I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death…" (Hosea 13:7 & 14)!

"The righteous PERISH, and no man lays it to heart…" (Isa. 57:1)

And concerning lost Israel God says,

"I will seek that which was LOST, and bring again that which was driven away…" (Ezek. 34:16).

Amazing grace! How sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me!
I once was lost [apollumi—lost, perished, destroyed], but now am found;
Was blind, but now I see.

Oh the whole church world will sing about it, but they don’t completely believe the words they sing. They will appropriate the word "sinner" and "lost," but few will confess to being "the man of sin/man of lawlessness " or "the son of perdition [destruction]."

Do you see the importance of it now? You would never learn this in any church out there. So tell me, am I the one Paul could be talking about “advocating a different doctrine that does not agree with sound words those of our Lord Jesus Christ” or is it someone else like the church?

AK4 · Sep 22, 2009

free spirit said:
Only an Hollywood imagination can came up with that idea, if it is as you say, I am the one that got away to freedom, with God's blessings.

You know, after coming out of Babylon and seeing the truth, yes it did seem like a hollywood movie. It was like being drugged and couldnt get sober, like being caught in a dream that was so real but you knew something was right.

Its amazing once your eyes are opened. You realise that it actually took a miracle from God to bring you out of the delusion, "dream", "movie", heavy "drugs" of MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH"

Notice this about what God has to say about the church and its doctrines in Rev 17 and 18:

"And the woman [always the symbol for a church/kirke] was arrayed in purple and scarlet color [these colors symbolize wealth and high position], and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication" (Rev. 17:4).

What else are we told is in the golden cup of this church?

"the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication" (Ver. 2).

"for the merchants were the great men of the earth; for by your sorceries were all nations deceived."Rev. 18:23

Just what are these "sorceries?"

The Greek word translated "sorceries" in this verse is, pharmakeia. Dr. Strongs first definition of this word is, "medicine." Our words "pharmacy" and "pharmaceutical" (DRUGS) are derived from this word. This harlot church peddles spiritual DRUGS to the world!

This Church has committed spiritual fornication among the leaders of the world, and has caused the inhabitants of the world to be made drunk and drugged by the contents of her golden cup.

So yup it was like a movie, dream and being drunk and drugged

free spirit · Sep 22, 2009

TO AK4

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to DESTRUCTION, and many there be which go in thereat" (Matt. 7:13).

Yes he came to save the world and I really hope that includes everyone, But I am one that has entered by the strait gate; so that is our calling, to be holy as he is holy.
Your idea is "never mind in the end you will be saved also" yours is a license to be evil for in the end evil will also be saved, you are removing the fear of God from people hearts, that is extremely evil, because it cancels God's calling. "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom," it is that wisdom from fear that drives you to do better. I do not know what you are trying to do, you knowledge does not promote Christ work in the believer, because it also justify my sinful nature, It is a useless knowledge no profitable to anyone. Do not point at the churches mistakes, these mistakes will be exposed by preaching the gospel, that is by helping to form Christ holy nature in people hearts, so we should trust that holy nature in us and do good works. Please reconsider.

free spirit · Sep 23, 2009

AK4 said:
You know, after coming out of Babylon and seeing the truth, yes it did seem like a hollywood movie. It was like being drugged and couldnt get sober, like being caught in a dream that was so real but you knew something was right.

Its amazing once your eyes are opened. You realise that it actually took a miracle from God to bring you out of the delusion, "dream", "movie", heavy "drugs" of MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH"

Notice this about what God has to say about the church and its doctrines in Rev 17 and 18:

"And the woman [always the symbol for a church/kirke] was arrayed in purple and scarlet color [these colors symbolize wealth and high position], and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication" (Rev. 17:4).

What else are we told is in the golden cup of this church?

"…the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication" (Ver. 2).

"…for the merchants were the great men of the earth; for by your sorceries were all nations deceived."Rev. 18:23

Just what are these "sorceries?"

The Greek word translated "sorceries" in this verse is, pharmakeia. Dr. Strong’s first definition of this word is, "medicine." Our words "pharmacy" and "pharmaceutical" (DRUGS) are derived from this word. This harlot church peddles spiritual DRUGS to the world!

This Church has committed spiritual fornication among the leaders of the world, and has caused the inhabitants of the world to be made drunk and drugged by the contents of her golden cup.

So yup it was like a movie, dream and being drunk and drugged

Do you have in mind all the Christian churches or you have one in particular that fit your description? I personally do not belong to a church, I found them to be like kindergarten, with one difference, the children in the kindergarten will grow out of it, but those adult in the church kindergarten are happy to stay there.

AK4 · Sep 23, 2009

free spirit said:
Yes he came to save the world and I really hope that includes everyone,

I will be up-front and bold here with you here only for you to really think about your "holiness" and "righteousness". For we are commanded to do so at times.

You only hope that includes everyone? You dont believe with all your heart and mind that

1Jo 4:14 - We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son {to be} the Savior of the world.

And

1Ti 2:4 - Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Etc etc etc

You dont fully believe that He WILL do what His Father sent Him to do? You dont believe ALL men will be saved? You are basically saying/believing that Jesus "may" fail at what His Father commissioned Him to do. Is this true faith? That is not faith. Make no bones about it. You are saying God can fail.

Oh i know the argument people use and basically has to do with "free will" (theres that god again of themselves that they wont let go). Hows it go?

"God only wishes or desires or wants all men to be saved." What? God cant get His wishes? He doesnt fullfill all His desires? He cant get ALL His wants?

Isa 46:10 - Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Is this faith? Holiness? Righteousness? Honestly do you think you know His character if you dont know and truly believe that the Son wont fail in His mission, His purpose.

Oh how about the other argument "He will not interfere or make or force or whatever anyone to love Him because if He did thats not true love". Man that idol of the heart of free will blinds the best of em. The will of God is to save all men, yet the freewill of man can be stronger than the will of God? Honestly ask yourself, if I dont even believe with my full heart that God will save all men, do I truly know Jesus?

AK4 · Sep 23, 2009

free spirit said:
Your idea is "never mind in the end you will be saved also" yours is a license to be evil for in the end evil will also be saved, you are removing the fear of God from people hearts, that is extremely evil, because it cancels God's calling. .

Which brings me to this--- I never said that anyone will be saved anyway or its a license to be evil. Thats far from what Ive been saying. You only took it as such, but in reality I am expressing that all are called to a higher spiritual standard that exceeds the scribes and Pharisees. ALL will go through the same processfiery trials, temptations and tribulations--- its either you judge yourself now and not have to go to judgment or be judged in the Great White Throne judgment where their judgment will be MUCH MUCH more severe. For I know and can somewhat see what this judgment is and its not going to be pleasant at all for those who dont make it in this age. I am personally experiencing this Lake of Fire now. Its not pleasant, but yet it is.

What does the scriptures say its a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Lord. Where do you get the removal of fear of God? Are you saying if you take away the man-made doctrine of hell from the Word it takes the fear of God away from people? In reality its the teaching of this hell doctrine that has caused most men to blaspheme and hate God. Well if anyone is foolish enough to think just because hell is not real that they now have a license to do evil, well they condemn themselves and believe me they will get their just recompense when God will burn out their carnality. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth

Evil will not be saved, it will be abolished, but those who do/did evil they will repent and will be saved and learn righteousness

Isa 26:9 - for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
"For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the Living God, Who is the SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN, especially of those that believe"

Do you truly believe this scripture? Do you believe those who do/did evil wont be save? Is not Jesus able?

Wherefore God also has highly exalted Him, and given Him a name which is above every name. That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of them ['things' is not in the original Greek] in heaven, and them in earth, and them under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord [THEIR Lord], to the glory of God the Father" (Phil. 2:9-11).

1Co 12:3 - Wherefore I give you to understand, that NO ONE speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that NO ONE (THAT SPEAKING OF EVERYONE) can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Whats this? Even people as evil as Hitler and Manson will be given His spirit and saved? Oh did you catch that also That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of them in heaven. Yup in heaven. Is satan and his messengers in heaven?

Eph 6:12 -For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Col 1:16 - For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

"That in the dispensation of the fulnesss of times he might gather together in one ALL in the Christ, both that in the heavens and that in the earth" (Eph. 1:10)

Do you believe Jesus has the power to make even satan repent?

"For He [Jesus] must reign till He has put ALL ENEMIES [Satan is an enemy [Matt. 13:39] under His feet...that God may be ALL in All [that includes ALL God's creatures]" (I Cor. 15:25 & 28).

Let alone any puny man. Have I removed the fear of God from any? Not any that I know of personally because for the main reason THEY DONT BELIEVE THE SCRIPTURES ANYWAYS when I show em. Im not talking about interpretation either, just flat out plain scriptures. And besides the fear of God is only the beginning of wisdom. One should be beyond this because God doesnt really want you to fear Him. In fact He pities those who do.

Ps 103:13 - Like as a father pitieth his children, so the LORD pitieth them that fear him.

But you still do fear Him or as I like it better revere Him. Why? Because we dont have a free will that is independent of God or as the dictionary defines it independent of divine forces or fate. Does knowing this remove the fear? I speak as fool

1 Cor 12:6 - There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works ALL in ALL

Php 2: 12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. (WHY?) 13 For (because) it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Sounds as if verse 12 contradicts 13. Work out your own salvation verses it is God who works in you. Ah it takes spiritual understanding to know that even though you know it is God who is doing the work (or willing you to will and to do), with fear and trembling you work out your salvation because you dont know what God has in store for you.

But do any want to believe this? Where have I removed the fear? I havent. I am not being harsh or anything I am just showing you where you were in error of what I was saying.

free spirit · Sep 24, 2009

H! AK4,
I see that now, but your presentation is as clear as mud, you use a lots of words to explain a very simple message, if I understand you right you are saying in a nut shell that (the chosen ones are sanctified by God through his discipline administered to us by the vessels of dishonor, end he influences us to endure and submit to that, and influences the false believers to be unkind to us.) in the end he has mercy to all, but in the mean-time his focus is on the chosen ones.

AK4 · Sep 24, 2009

free spirit said:
Do you have in mind all the Christian churches or you have one in particular that fit your description? I personally do not belong to a church, I found them to be like kindergarten, with one difference, the children in the kindergarten will grow out of it, but those adult in the church kindergarten are happy to stay there.

No particular single denomination in mind. In some form or another they all follow one or more of doctrines and traditions of men. Tithing, hell, trinity, heaven, immortal soul and freewill/free moral agency are the usual links between them all.

Yes and i do agree.

I will try to read your papers today or tomorrow.

AK4 · Sep 24, 2009

H! AK4,
I see that now, but your presentation is as clear as mud, you use a lots of words to explain a very simple message, if I understand you right you are saying in a nut shell that (the chosen ones are sanctified by God through his discipline administered to us by the vessels of dishonor, end he influences us to endure and submit to that, and influences the false believers to be unkind to us.) in the end he has mercy to all, but in the mean-time his focus is on the chosen ones.

let me ask you, if I just came out and said this to you the way you said it, would you believe it. If I didnt back it up with dozens of scripture, would you even consider it? Although I dont completely understand what you put. Let me try to rephrase it

The chosen are being sanctified through Jesus. His chastises us when we judge ourselves because He loves us and is putting us the process of perfecting. Vessels of dishonor are playing their role in what form is necessary to help bring to fruition His Planthey directly or indirectly influence something in anyones life, not just the chosen, they may help one who God may be choosing (even if it was something bad or evil) or they may hurt that one God may be choosing by writing a book or something hundreds of years ago that may pervert the Words of God and come to believe what was written in that book. God works in us/gives us the power to endure. For the vessels of dishonor, their hearts and minds are already in the world (this doesnt necessarily mean they are totally corrupt either) so since by their nature the slightest thing could most likely influence them as in the case of pharaoh and scribes and Pharisees of Jesus day with their lusts for power (ultimately God is the cause of everything because He created man to have lusts).
The false believers are unkind to those of God because of their hearts (Oh if they had such a heart in them the Lord says). Until God gives them a heart of flesh they will be this way and only God can give one a heart of flesh.

Yes in the end God has mercy on all and will save and be in all. For He knows and takes responsibility for everything, that is why He will fix or make everything anew.

I used to think that waythat right now his focus is on the chosen---but God has been showing me slowly how I was wrong in my thinking. Its shallow and haughty to think that way. God is focused on all His creation. Everything is done with and for a purpose. The chosen really are no more special than the vessels of dishonor. They are just shown more favor or given more grace in this age, but when God is all in all no one will be greater than anyone. The vessels of dishonor are serving their purpose just as the chosen are/will be serving their purpose. God is no respector of persons.

free spirit · Sep 24, 2009

AK4 said:
H! AK4,
I see that now, but your presentation is as clear as mud, you use a lots of words to explain a very simple message, if I understand you right you are saying in a nut shell that (the chosen ones are sanctified by God through his discipline administered to us by the vessels of dishonor, end he influences us to endure and submit to that, and influences the false believers to be unkind to us.) in the end he has mercy to all, but in the mean-time his focus is on the chosen ones.

let me ask you, if I just came out and said this to you the way you said it, would you believe it. If I didnt back it up with dozens of scripture, would you even consider it? Although I dont completely understand what you put. Let me try to rephrase it

Click to expand...

You approach is threatening I felt that you wanted to take away my freedom in the Lord, but you do not, in fact you made my freedom more free to love my nasty neighbor.
The chosen are being sanctified through Jesus. His chastises us when we judge ourselves because He loves us and is putting us the process of perfecting. Vessels of dishonor are playing their role in what form is necessary to help bring to fruition His Planthey directly or indirectly influence something in anyones life, not just the chosen, they may help one who God may be choosing (even if it was something bad or evil) or they may hurt that one God may be choosing by writing a book or something hundreds of years ago that may pervert the Words of God and come to believe what was written in that book. God works in us/gives us the power to endure. For the vessels of dishonor, their hearts and minds are already in the world (this dozent necessarily mean they are totally corrupt either) so since by their nature the slightest thing could most likely influence them as in the case of pharaoh and scribes and Pharisees of Jesus day with their lusts for power (ultimately God is the cause of everything because He created man to have lusts).
The false believers are unkind to those of God because of their hearts (Oh if they had such a heart in them the Lord says). Until God gives them a heart of flesh they will be this way and only God can give one a heart of flesh.

Yes in the end God has mercy on all and will save and be in all. For He knows and takes responsibility for everything, that is why He will fix or make everything anew.

I used to think that waythat right now his focus is on the chosen---but God has been showing me slowly how I was wrong in my thinking. Its shallow and haughty to think that way. God is focused on all His creation. Everything is done with and for a purpose. The chosen really are no more special than the vessels of dishonor. They are just shown more favor or given more grace in this age, but when God is all in all no one will be greater than anyone. The vessels of dishonor are serving their purpose just as the chosen are/will be serving their purpose. God is no respecter of persons.

Yes you have understood what I wrote.
Now about the chosen ones or the first fruit; for we read in romans 8: 19 to 23, " for the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the SONS of God. for the creation was subjected to futility, not of its own WILL, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. for we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. and not only this but also we ourselves having the first fruits of the spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body."
Thanks to you I now understand, I was hampered from understanding by my freedom and the glory as a child of God, This new understanding has not altered my attitude to the wither community for I still consider them my potential brothers and sisters in Christ, but it has improved my compassion cowards them.

AK4 · Sep 25, 2009

free spirit said:
You approach is threatening I felt that you wanted to take away my freedom in the Lord, but you do not, in fact you made my freedom more free to love my nasty neighbor.

I dont mean to be threatening, but then again that is exactly what the truth does to false beliefs of man. Its scary when all your life youve been taught or known one thing and then you find out that what i believed or thought was truth really was false. Its terrorifying and almost puts one in a confusion state for awhile. I know this personally. I thought i was free in the Lord when i thought i already had the truth, but i tell you, the two-edged sword (the Word (Heb 4:12)) that comes from Jesus' mouth (Rev 1:16) showed me just how much i was still deeply embedded in bondage and didnt even know it, I was the church of laodicea, wretched, poor, naked and blind. I wasnt really free at all. But this verse is absolutely true

Joh 8:32 -And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Once you figure out or are shown by God what the lie is and He starts showing you the truth (which at the same time is THE Revelation of Jesus---yes that book of prophesy should be happening to you now ("Behold i come quickly" in YOUR LIFETIME), everything in it, that is Jesus revealing Himself to YOU--it is NOT what all these false prophets of doom of today prophecy), man i tell you, the absolute feeling of being free....how do i say it....JUST FREES YOU. And the joy that comes, i cant even express it with words.

Yes you have understood what I wrote.
Thanks to you I now understand, I was hampered from understanding by my freedom and the glory as a child of God, This new understanding has not altered my attitude to the wither community for I still consider them my potential brothers and sisters in Christ, but it has improved my compassion cowards them

Consider this, Paul says by the grace of God i am what i am. Now think if God didnt grace Paul to be what he became to be, he still would have been Saul, persecutor, murderer of those who believed. Now picture yourself, by the grace of God you are what you are. Do you believe that without the grace of God you could have easily been a murderer if you grew up or were around circumstances that shape your mind and behaviour? What if God had placed you somewhere else on earth, and your circumstances and environment was the same as somebody like hitlers'. Do you believe you could have ended up just like him? Although what He did is despicable, yes i do believe i could have been just like him yet by only the grace of God i am not. This same concept is with vessels of honor and dishonor. By the grace of God i or you MAY be a vessel of honor, but we wont know until the resurrection. Its only by His grace we are what we are. We could be like anyone anywhere else in world, good or bad. Hopefully we are a vessel of honor and if that be the case, this should really humble you because you could have easily been a vessel of dishonor.

There is much freedom to being a child of God, you and i have some of that freedom, because we can see through some of lies perpetrated by the church and the world, but theres a lot lot lot more and more you find out the truth behind these doctrines and teachings of the world the freer and freer you become.

And all Glory to God.

free spirit · Sep 26, 2009

AK4 said:
free spirit said:

You approach is threatening I felt that you wanted to take away my freedom in the Lord, but you do not, in fact you made my freedom more free to love my nasty neighbor.

I dont mean to be threatening, but then again that is exactly what the truth does to false beliefs of man. Its scary when all your life youve been taught or known one thing and then you find out that what i believed or thought was truth really was false. Its terrorifying and almost puts one in a confusion state for awhile. I know this personally. I thought i was free in the Lord when i thought i already had the truth, but i tell you, the two-edged sword (the Word (Heb 4:12)) that comes from Jesus' mouth (Rev 1:16) showed me just how much i was still deeply embedded in bondage and didnt even know it, I was the church of laodicea, wretched, poor, naked and blind. I wasnt really free at all. But this verse is absolutely true

http://www.searchgodsword.org/desk/?query=joh+8:32&translation=kjv&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en

Joh 8:32 -And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Click to expand...

To me is much more than that for I interpret it this way, " And ye shall know (experience) the holiness, and holiness shall make you free."

Once you figure out or are shown by God what the lie is and He starts showing you the truth (which at the same time is THE Revelation of Jesus---yes that book of prophesy should be happening to you now ("Behold i come quickly" in YOUR LIFETIME), everything in it, that is Jesus revealing Himself to YOU--it is NOT what all these false prophets of doom of today prophecy), man i tell you, the absolute feeling of being free....how do i say it....JUST FREES YOU. And the joy that comes, i cant even express it with words.

Yes you have understood what I wrote.
Thanks to you I now understand, I was hampered from understanding by my freedom and the glory as a child of God, This new understanding has not altered my attitude to the wither community for I still consider them my potential brothers and sisters in Christ, but it has improved my compassion cowards them

Consider this, Paul says by the grace of God i am what i am. Now think if God didnt grace Paul to be what he became to be, he still would have been Saul, persecutor, murderer of those who believed. Now picture yourself, by the grace of God you are what you are. Do you believe that without the grace of God you could have easily been a murderer if you grew up or were around circumstances that shape your mind and behaviour? What if God had placed you somewhere else on earth, and your circumstances and environment was the same as somebody like hitlers'. Do you believe you could have ended up just like him? Although what He did is despicable, yes i do believe i could have been just like him yet by only the grace of God i am not. This same concept is with vessels of honor and dishonor. By the grace of God i or you MAY be a vessel of honor, but we wont know until the resurrection. Its only by His grace we are what we are. We could be like anyone anywhere else in world, good or bad. Hopefully we are a vessel of honor and if that be the case, this should really humble you because you could have easily been a vessel of dishonor.

Click to expand...

I thank God the way he made me, yes I could have been a bad person I had all the ingredients necessary to be an evil person,but by his grace in me I am what I am. but I do not excuse those evil people for doing evil things, but I say to them you should not do that. In the end God is the one who judges righteously.
you can see his grace working in people from childhood, some children are compassionate some not, some gos to became criminals from an early age, Paul persecuted the church because of his believes, and he in himself was truly working for God and not for selfish interests and because of that God converted him. He never killed anyone but yes he was threatening violence.

There is much freedom to being a child of God, you and i have some of that freedom, because we can see through some of lies perpetrated by the church and the world, but theres a lot lot lot more and more you find out the truth behind these doctrines and teachings of the world the freer and freer you become.

And all Glory to God.

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The churches of today are also victim of the lie, it is up to people like us to show them the error, end be prepared to suffer the consequence for our love. because we should do the following.
Likewise, apostles and evangelists should be prepared to offer Gods love to misinformed religious cousins, not only through prayer of intersession, tolerance and respect for their faith, but also by the unashamed proclamation of the truth to them. For it is written in Mathew 25 35 36, For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me. Most of todays believers and religious denominations can only see the superficial meaning of these scripture, because those believers are focused on the obvious physical human needs. But in the book of acts we do not see the apostle Paul going from prison to prison visiting the convicts, or from house to house visiting the sick, or searching for the poor to feed them, or giving shelter to strangers. Do not misunderstand me, for those who do these things are doing a good and compassionate thing, and we Christians should definitively be in the thick of it. Nevertheless in the scriptures we should also see the apostle Paul going from city to city, from synagogue to synagogue; he even managed to visit pagan temples. There he found the hungry, for the bread of life, there he found the thirsty, for the Spirit of God, there he found the naked, ready for the garment of righteousness, there he found the prisoners of false doctrines, to be set free with the truth, there he found the spiritually sick, to be healed with the forgiveness of God, there he also found himself as a stranger, and some godly person took him in. Paul boldly revealed the love of God to them all, he opened up his heart, carelessly endangering himself in the process; he was vilified and ridiculed, he suffered beatings, imprisonments and persecutions. He did all of that for the sake of the Christ and the love for the brethren.

AK4 · Sep 28, 2009

Quote freespirit

The churches of today are also victim of the lie, it is up to people like us to show them the error, end be prepared to suffer the consequence for our love.

Yup and in todays world people need to be open to receive the truth, even if it differs from everything they have been taught, this includes us because the lies of the world and especially Christendom is so deep and heavy. The more research I do the more and more I see the deception in everything. The more and more I see how the religions (especially Christianity—(Im not picking on Christianity but its “supposed to be” the one religion bringing the truths of God) of the world adopted or incorporated and maybe slightly changed the many beliefs of the ancient Egyptians. Its everywhere, I kid you not. Its so well “blended” into Christianity that really no one in Christianity even notices it, recognizes it, and if you show them how it is they will refuse to believe it. Would you even believe the whole concept of christianitys’ heaven is Egyptian? That’s why they don’t even know what “heaven” is. Same thing as hell.

because we should do the following.
Likewise, apostles and evangelists should be prepared to offer God’s love to misinformed religious cousins, not only through prayer of intersession, tolerance and respect for their faith, but also by the unashamed proclamation of the truth to them
Most of today’s believers and religious denominations can only see the superficial meaning of these scripture, because those believers are focused on the obvious physical human needs. But in the book of acts we do not see the apostle Paul going from prison to prison visiting the convicts, or from house to house visiting the sick, or searching for the poor to feed them, or giving shelter to strangers. Do not misunderstand me, for those who do these things are doing a good and compassionate thing, and we Christians should definitively be in the thick of it. Nevertheless in the scriptures we should also see the apostle Paul going from city to city, from synagogue to synagogue; he even managed to visit pagan temples. There he found the hungry, for the bread of life, there he found the thirsty, for the Spirit of God, there he found the naked, ready for the garment of righteousness, there he found the prisoners of false doctrines, to be set free with the truth, there he found the spiritually sick, to be healed with the forgiveness of God, there he also found himself as a stranger, and some godly person took him in. Paul boldly revealed the love of God to them all, he opened up his heart, carelessly endangering himself in the process; he was vilified and ridiculed, he suffered beatings, imprisonments and persecutions. He did all of that for the sake of the Christ and the love for the brethren.

I totally agree. That is what I try to do

“[1] preach with sound doctrine and [2] refute those who contradict it" [Titus 1:9 – NRSV]

and then tell that person not to take my word for it, but to research these things out themselves. “Study to show yourself approved”. With all the lies out there in the world and so many doctrines and beliefs embedded in us from childhood its no wonder why people reject the person bringing the truth.

Not to toot my own horn because all glory goes to God but look how everyone except you have stop posting on this thread. They are so closed minded to the truth and not willing to "see if these things are so". They are so entrenched in their doctrines and stuff to even consider that maybe what they have been taught and believed all this time may be a lie or wrong. I do this myself believe it or not thats why i question everything. My girlfriend is this way when i try to tell her that when people die, they are dead. "no thoughts, no actions, no nothing". She wont let go of her beliefs of the "spirit lives on" or some for of ghost type stuff or going to heaven or hell when one dies. She is not religious in any way fashion or form either but she do believe there is a God. I give you credit though you have already recieved from God the knowledge to see through some of lies of christianity and at least you say you have sat down and thought on it some of these things. Believe me that is a huge power given by God to someone, escpecially a christian. Most christians cant see christianitys corruptions or as Jesus put it "cant see the BEAM in their eye" in other words they cant see the falseness in their religion

free spirit · Sep 28, 2009

AK4 said:
Quote freespirit

The churches of today are also victim of the lie, it is up to people like us to show them the error, end be prepared to suffer the consequence for our love.

Yup and in todays world people need to be open to receive the truth, even if it differs from everything they have been taught, this includes us because the lies of the world and especially Christendom is so deep and heavy. The more research I do the more and more I see the deception in everything. The more and more I see how the religions (especially Christianity—(Im not picking on Christianity but its “supposed to be” the one religion bringing the truths of God) of the world adopted or incorporated and maybe slightly changed the many beliefs of the ancient Egyptians. Its everywhere, I kid you not. Its so well “blended” into Christianity that really no one in Christianity even notices it, recognizes it, and if you show them how it is they will refuse to believe it. Would you even believe the whole concept of christianitys’ heaven is Egyptian? That’s why they don’t even know what “heaven” is. Same thing as hell.

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I believe they will learn about these things after they have learned about the gospel, because we read in ACTS 5:19 to 21, "But an angel of the Lord during the night opened the gates of the prison, and taking them out he said, go your way, stand and speak to the people in the temple the whole message of this life. and upon hearing this, they entered into the temple about daybreak, and began to teach."

because we should do the following.
Likewise, apostles and evangelists should be prepared to offer God’s love to misinformed religious cousins, not only through prayer of intersession, tolerance and respect for their faith, but also by the unashamed proclamation of the truth to them
Most of today’s believers and religious denominations can only see the superficial meaning of these scripture, because those believers are focused on the obvious physical human needs. But in the book of acts we do not see the apostle Paul going from prison to prison visiting the convicts, or from house to house visiting the sick, or searching for the poor to feed them, or giving shelter to strangers. Do not misunderstand me, for those who do these things are doing a good and compassionate thing, and we Christians should definitively be in the thick of it. Nevertheless in the scriptures we should also see the apostle Paul going from city to city, from synagogue to synagogue; he even managed to visit pagan temples. There he found the hungry, for the bread of life, there he found the thirsty, for the Spirit of God, there he found the naked, ready for the garment of righteousness, there he found the prisoners of false doctrines, to be set free with the truth, there he found the spiritually sick, to be healed with the forgiveness of God, there he also found himself as a stranger, and some godly person took him in. Paul boldly revealed the love of God to them all, he opened up his heart, carelessly endangering himself in the process; he was vilified and ridiculed, he suffered beatings, imprisonments and persecutions. He did all of that for the sake of the Christ and the love for the brethren.

I totally agree. That is what I try to do

“[1] preach with sound doctrine and [2] refute those who contradict it" [Titus 1:9 – NRSV]

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and then tell that person not to take my word for it, but to research these things out themselves. “Study to show yourself approved”. With all the lies out there in the world and so many doctrines and beliefs embedded in us from childhood its no wonder why people reject the person bringing the truth.

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Yes because conversion comes from within. Yess in the end times things will be more difficult.

Not to toot my own horn because all glory goes to God but look how everyone except you have stop posting on this thread. They are so closed minded to the truth and not willing to "see if these things are so". They are so entrenched in their doctrines and stuff to even consider that maybe what they have been taught and believed all this time may be a lie or wrong. I do this myself believe it or not thats why i question everything. My girlfriend is this way when i try to tell her that when people die, they are dead. "no thoughts, no actions, no nothing". She wont let go of her beliefs of the "spirit lives on" or some for of ghost type stuff or going to heaven or hell when one dies. She is not religious in any way fashion or form either but she do believe there is a God. I give you credit though you have already recieved from God the knowledge to see through some of lies of christianity and at least you say you have sat down and thought on it some of these things. Believe me that is a huge power given by God to someone, escpecially a christian. Most christians cant see christianitys corruptions or as Jesus put it "cant see the BEAM in their eye" in other words they cant see the falseness in their religion

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Yes but I believe that those who are interested in the subject are reading our exchange just the same. God is the one that save not us.

AK4 · Oct 14, 2009

God is the one that save not us.

Yeah but who believes the report. Most fill by their freewill that they choose God and not God chooses them.

free spirit · Oct 17, 2009

AK4 said:
Yeah but who believes the report. Most fill by their freewill that they choose God and not God chooses them.

Yes I chose God, And because of the work of that choosing, God chose me, to explain it is some what difficult because it involves my past religious believes.
Looking back from my position it makes sense, but if I try to explain to you how it unfolded, it will sound to you like a fairytale.
Ask yourself why was Paul saved? What Abraham did before he was called the friend of God?
You know me better then most because of my articles, so, Is it possible to know what I know through the flesh?

AK4 · Oct 27, 2009

free spirit said:
Yes I chose God, And because of the work of that choosing, God chose me, to explain it is some what difficult because it involves my past religious believes.

You broke many concepts of God in that one sentence---

You just said by your works, God chose you. That it was by something you did that made God choose you. That is not scriptural. Yes it may “feel” that way but in reality and scripturally it was God who does the choosing and nothing of anyones work.

Looking back from my position it makes sense, but if I try to explain to you how it unfolded, it will sound to you like a fairytale.

I guarantee you that it was something God did for you first before you “chose” Him. Its just all a matter of acknowledging and knowing that ALL is of God and its truly the goodness of God who leads one to repentance.

Ask yourself why was Paul saved? What Abraham did before he was called the friend of God?

These two examples are great in showing it was God who chose them before they did anything. Tell me what did Paul do before He was “saved”? He persecuted and ravaged the church. Before that he was a strict follower of the law. Abraham was chosen by God well before he was called Gods friend. Nowhere does it say Abram did anything before hand.

You know me better then most because of my articles, so, Is it possible to know what I know through the flesh?

No. All spiritual understanding is from God. God has opened your eyes to some things, many things, compared to many others who are still in mystery Babylon. Yet and I say this with all love, there are still some doctrines you are still deceived on that is taught by the church and the world.

I look back on my life and see how it all seemed like a fairy tale also. Wait till God opens your eyes more and it will seem even more fairy tale-ish or Hollywood movie like. To me, it was like waking up from a dream that seemed sooooo real and so believable yet you start see where you were deceived in many areas and start to wonder (well at least for me) “how could I have been so dumb and decieved?”

Keep up the faith and I am praying for you

free spirit · Oct 30, 2009

AK4 said:
free spirit said:

Yes I chose God, And because of the work of that choosing, God chose me, to explain it is some what difficult because it involves my past religious believes.

You broke many concepts of God in that one sentence---

You just said by your works, God chose you. That it was by something you did that made God choose you. That is not scriptural. Yes it may “feel” that way but in reality and scripturally it was God who does the choosing and nothing of anyones work.

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I do not seem to be able to get where you are; God is in control overall. That said; I also have a will like Jesus for we read in Mark 14:36, "And he was saying, Abba! father all things are possible for thee; remove this cup from me; yet not what I Will, BUT WHAT THOU WILT."
And in John 6:37, we read "all that the father gives me shall come to me, and the one who cames to me i will certainly not cast out."
So not all are given from the father but some cames by their own accord.
Paul and Abraham were found faithful when God visited them, I know that he found me faithful when he visited me, how did I get there? in retrospect I can say with all confidence that it was God that drove me there, but at that time it was me making the decisions.
God is not imprisoned by time and space as we are, I cannot comprehend living and speaking without reference to time, and when God speaks to us he has to speak with our terminology or we would not understand him.
I hope you have noticed that my articles try to explain the way Christians should conduct themselves, this is what the Gospel of Christ is all about, to know what is eternity and what is not will not save me, only my holy conduct is what will please the Lord.

AK4, there is three things that makes me physically sick, one is when i see injustice in this world like the unjust sufferings of the Palestinians; God hate injustice.
The second thing that makes me sick is the recognition and approval of the guy community, which is an abomination to God.
The third thing that makes me sick is the idea of me lousing my free will. They all makes me sick even to loose conscienceless if I persist with them in my mind, so I cannot dwell on those things for long.
I know that I know God, I also know that I am not perfect yet.
Keep on praying for me your preyer's are very much needed.

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AK4 · Oct 30, 2009

quote=free spirit;
Yes I chose God, And because of the work of that choosing, God chose me, to explain it is some what difficult because it involves my past religious believes.

in retrospect I can say with all confidence that it was God that drove me there, but at that time it was me making the decisions.

Yes, that is how God works. Notice God is the cause of everything, and the effect was driving you to will/chose Him. So if God caused you to chose Him your will was not free but rather caused to chose Him. Now follow me—who is responsible for giving any man faith? God right. So God, in His ways and time was giving you faith that would lead you to Him causing you to will to choose Him. Your will or ability to choose Him was influenced to make that choice and to be even able to make that choice to come to God is only a gift that can be given by God—not by anyones own doing or willing “For it is God who works in BOTH to will and to do”. So even before you, me, Paul, Abraham or anyone else can will or choose God, God grants that person the gift of faith to want to will/choose Him.

Notice something, you first said “Yes I chose God, And because of the work of that choosing, God chose me” then you said“in retrospect I can say with all confidence that it was God that drove me there”. See it’s a contradiction and double speak—this is what the “church” does. They say You have a freewill and you choose God on your own and God doesn’t make or influence or drive you to will/choose Him because that’s not real love—You must come to Christ yourself. But in another breath they will say God lead me to Him but I chose Him without any influence from Him—I chose Him, He didn’t chose me. See the contradiction. And that also says by someones own works God chooses them.

So think about it--- it is God who chooses you first and gives you the faith to want/will/choose (might I add its never forced its all voluntarily) Him. In no way can anyone freewill themselves to God. The thing is to those who believe in freewill, it seems as if they chose God on their own because truthfully and deep down they don’t recognise God “working in them or in all”. Freewillers are almost on the same level as atheists. Not quite the same but pretty darn close.

to know what is eternity and what is not will not save me, only my holy conduct is what will please the Lord.

Maybe or maybe not because if you don’t know what it is and you read a bible translation like the king james and where it comes to forever and ever and everlasting and eternity and you believe what those translations say then one will have the character of our Christ and His God all screwed and will not know of Their true loving nature and one wont believe the Scriptures where God says “Hes not willing any to perish” because the king james says in another place that some will be in “everlasting hell fire”. So then a trickle down thing can happen because one may believe that God will not save all His creation and that where it says “God is Love” that it really means this so instead of mimicking the character of your Creator as “God is Love” and “love your enemies” you could possibly only love some people and hate your enemies and wish that they burn forever in hell. See where I going with this and yet the trickle down theory is just starting.

AK4, there is three things that makes me physically sick, one is when i see injustice in this world like the unjust sufferings of the Palestinians; God hate injustice.
The second thing that makes me sick is the recognition and approval of the guy community, which is an abomination to God.
The third thing that makes me sick is the idea of me lousing my free will. They all makes me sick even to loose conscienceless if I persist with them in my mind, so I cannot dwell on those things for long.
I know that I know God, I also know that I am not perfect yet.
Keep on praying for me your preyer's are very much needed.

My biggest thing that makes me sick is being lied to. Once I came to know the truth of the scriptures and a lot of other things, the fact that I was lied to by people in the church who we all come to help us be “saved” irritates me so much, but God showed me that its all part of His plan and part of the lesson He is trying to teach those He may be using for a grander purpose.

Freewill is just a belief, a doctrine, a philosophy by man. Yes it is scary coming to the truth of this because one has to step down off of the throne that one wasn’t his but was his Creator, but believe me, knowing the truth of this myth is so much more glorious and free and the burden lifted and (I could go on and on). This freewill is the hardest thing (in my opinion) for most of mankind that they will have to give up and I admit I too at times when my human carnal mind tries to fight back think its unfair or whatever but God reminds me how illogical the whole freewill thing is and if it was true how much worse of everything would be. In all actuality believing you have a freewill further puts you into bondage and further makes your will from free (as if anyones will could ever be free, which it cant).

Let break it down for you because it is a very hard thing to understand and grasp because from birth we are taught this.

Freewill is taught by the world that it is choice or your will—your own ability to choose or do something without any prior cause or influence INCLUDING DIVINE FORCES (GOD) (do you see how close that makes one an atheists). This is not true. First off its not physically, mentally or especially scientifically possible. The first edict of universe is for every effect there was a cause.

We all have a will which gives us the ability to choose. That’s our will—the ability to choose from options. God will never take that away. But God never gave us a will that is free from anything influencing it, if He did they would even take Him out of the picture. Something always influences our choices whether we are conscious of it or not or rather its genetic or whatever and if one tries to trace it all back to the original source they will have no choice but to end (or this would show its beginning) with God. Theres no way around it. Even evolutionist and atheists have to come to some starting point and that starting point is God whether they believe it or not.

Ultimately you are not losing your will, your gaining more insight into God and recognising God in everything. Your not losing anything because you never had will that was free. Well the only thing you are losing is a man made belief, doctrine, philosophy and myth which when you learn more about it you will start to see just how damnable and blasphemous it is.

Yes I will keep praying for you. Nice hearing from you again

ps i liked your article on women in ministry

free spirit · Nov 2, 2009

AK4

We all have a will which gives us the ability to choose. That’s our will—the ability to choose from options. God will never take that away. But God never gave us a will that is free from anything influencing it, if He did they would even take Him out of the picture. Something always influences our choices whether we are conscious of it or not or rather its genetic or whatever and if one tries to trace it all back to the original source they will have no choice but to end (or this would show its beginning) with God. Theres no way around it. Even evolutionist and atheists have to come to some starting point and that starting point is God whether they believe it or not.

Ultimately you are not losing your will, your gaining more insight into God and recognising God in everything. Your not losing anything because you never had will that was free. Well the only thing you are losing is a man made belief, doctrine, philosophy and myth which when you learn more about it you will start to see just how damnable and blasphemous it is.

so these changes are in order for we read in Hebrews 10 - 26 to 29, " for if we go on choosing sin willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain terrifying expectation of judgment, and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. anyone who has set aside the law of moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. how much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has chosen to trample under foot the son of god, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, he has insulted the spirit of grace."
there is also written that who blasphemy against the holy spirit is not forgiven.
I can choose to do good, I can choose to do bad, and I can choose to do nothing, that is to me freedom to move within my humanity. After all I am not free to get off this planet, no I am not free at all, I am only free to Choose, "to be or not to be" I knew all of that I made reference of that in my articles as you know, but I never analyzed the way you have, I know that to became a bond servant of God one has to always choose what God would choose, for Jesus said "I always do the things that pleases the father"
But as we analyze that in the normal human way we can just say, what Jesus said "Go and sin no more"

Do you understand the New Testament

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