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Unfofgivable sin?
- Thread starter Ori
- Start date
Hi Orichalcum,orichalcum said:
You've asked for an opinion - and for what it is worth, I'll try to do the best I can...First, I think, you need to understand the Holy Trinity - here is a link to one thread asking for help on that concept:-
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13736&highlight=holy+trinity
I am still trying to get my head around it - and am stiil in the deep end - although I'm getting nearer the shallow end, I think.....
First, I wondered whether there is a difference between the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit; No doubt No*, Scott or NetDoc will put me right if I get this 'wrong' - but I have found, on the net an answer to this which is as follows:-
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[/font][font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]In my Bible class, we are learning about the Holy Spirit. Is there a difference between the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost?
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[/font][font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]No, there is no difference between the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost is a common phrase used in the King James Version Bible. Here is an example,
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[font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the [/font][font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Holy Ghost[/font][font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Swiss,SunSans-Regular], according to his own will? (King James Version) Hebrews 2:4 [/font]
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In the Revised Standard Bible, the New Revised Standard, the New American Standard, the New International Version, and even the New King James Bible, the phrase is the Holy Spirit. Here is an example from the New King James Version Bible,
In the Revised Standard Bible, the New Revised Standard, the New American Standard, the New International Version, and even the New King James Bible, the phrase is the Holy Spirit. Here is an example from the New King James Version Bible,
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[font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the [/font][font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Holy Spirit,[/font][font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Swiss,SunSans-Regular] according to His own will? (New King James Version) Hebrews 2:4 [/font]
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You can see that the terms are used interchangeably.
The word "ghost" was a common word in the King James English. The term spirit is a probably better word in modern English since the term "ghost" tends to have a negative meaning today. The actual Greek words mean "holy wind." Since wind is something you cannot see, the word "ghost" or "spirit" better expresses the idea that no one can see Him. The movie industry creates white ghostly creatures, but this is not the Bible's meaning. May the Lord bless you as you learn about Him.[/font]
You can see that the terms are used interchangeably.
Basically, therefore, as I understand it, since the Trinity represents the three 'facets' of God, the same Rules applies to all three.
'Thou shalt not take the Name of God The Father, The Son, and the Holy Ghost (Spirit) in Vain.
Hope that helps, and I hope I am right.
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James the Persian
Dreptcredincios Crestin
It's not taking the Holy Spirit's name in vain or insulting Him that is unforgivable, and the 'unforgivable' idea here is best looked on as an anthropomorphism rather like 'the hand of God'.orichalcum said:
It is not that God (or any of the Divine Persons) will not forgive you if you blaspheme the Holy Spirit but that blaspheming Him is rejecting Him and hence God's work in you. If you reject God utterly, given that you have free will, why would He save you against your will? In effect you condemn yourself, rather than God refusing to forgive you.
James
P.S.
Michel is right - Holy Spirit and Holy Ghost are synonymous. The word ghost comes from the same root as German Geist, and once referred to spirits in general and not just disembodied dead people. The German word still does.
neverthirsty
New Member
You are having an important discussion. I am glad to see the quote from NeverThirsty.org is perhaps being of some help. (See post #2 from Michel.) That was taken from : http://neverthirsty.org/pp/corner/read/r00135.html
The same question was also answered at:
http://neverthirsty.org/pp/corner/read2/r00625.html
You might also find our study on the Holy Spirit to be of help.
http://www.neverthirsty.org/pp/solid/SR05/SR050.html
The same question was also answered at:
http://neverthirsty.org/pp/corner/read2/r00625.html
You might also find our study on the Holy Spirit to be of help.
http://www.neverthirsty.org/pp/solid/SR05/SR050.html
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Hmmm. I don't really see it that way. The Holy Ghost is the third member of the Godhead. It is through the Holy Ghost that all truth is revealed to humankind. Remember the following event, as described in Matthew 16:13-17?orichalcum said:
"When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven."
All of the Apostles had spent a great deal of time with Jesus, and yet Peter appeared to be the only one among them who really understood who Jesus was. And, as Jesus pointed out, he had received His knowledge from God (through the Holy Ghost, who is the Revelator), and not from any mere mortal. As God, the Holy Ghost cannot lie. Therefore, had Peter ever denied the testimony he had received from the Holy Ghost, he would have essentially been calling God a liar. If any of the other Apostles had denied He was the Son of God (at least at that point in time), they could have been forgiven, because it had not yet been revealed to them who He really was. Upon until then, all they knew for sure was what they had seen with their own eyes. They were not then in a position to commit blasphemy against the Holy Ghost.
Kathryn
EnhancedSpirit
High Priestess
The Holy Ghost is that part that is connected to our own spirit. Hell is a state of mind, being separated from the source, and the spiritual death that occurs is merely the opposite of being one with the source.orichalcum said:
There is no need to sentence man to death. Disappearance of light this is death by itself. God does not punish for transgression. Spiritual death is losing the connection with the Creator. We are yet to attain such a level while living in this world.
A person who has never had a connection with the Creator, does not feel its loss. Existing below the line of Machsom (boundary, separating spiritual and corporeal worlds), we do not perceive the spiritual, and thus are not considered dead. Only a person who knew he was alive and felt the Creator's light but later ceased receiving Him, can be called dead. If one is in this state, then only he alone can determine it so, and pronounce his own spiritual death. In this condition, he regrets what happened and suffers immense pain, which in itself is a force capable of subsequently bringing him back to life at even greater spiritual degree.
Without feeling spiritual death, one cannot feel life. There is not a single righteous man who hasn't sinned while doing good. Sin always forestalls the Commandment. And when one realizes the entire evil, sensing his own spiritual death, he then turns to the Creator and asks to grant him life.
johnnys4life
Pro-life Mommy
There are a couple of cases in the Bible where (I am told) people do blaspheme in this manner...one is the man and his wife who lied to the church about how much money they were giving, and the other was someone who said of Jesus that he was possessed (as with an evil spirit). In each case it was indicated, if I remember right, that they had committed an eternal sin.
(This would be difficult for me to look up, as the key words are ones that are pretty common, but one is in the Gospel and the other is in Acts, I think._
So, no, it does NOT seem to be merely the rejection of the Lord, but there is more to it.
I certainly hope I have never committed the eternal sin, but if I have, I am still living my life as though there is hope.
I am very nervous of even mentioning that person of the Trinity by name. If you notice, I rarely do.
My husband spells it like this: G*d, like the Jews, because he said the words are too close to the actual name, and he is afraid of saying it in vain. I normally try to say Lord instead, but sometimes I slip up. (We also try to keep kosher but today I messed up and had clams, which totally wasn't worth it.)
(This would be difficult for me to look up, as the key words are ones that are pretty common, but one is in the Gospel and the other is in Acts, I think._
So, no, it does NOT seem to be merely the rejection of the Lord, but there is more to it.
I certainly hope I have never committed the eternal sin, but if I have, I am still living my life as though there is hope.
I am very nervous of even mentioning that person of the Trinity by name. If you notice, I rarely do.
My husband spells it like this: G*d, like the Jews, because he said the words are too close to the actual name, and he is afraid of saying it in vain. I normally try to say Lord instead, but sometimes I slip up.
(We also try to keep kosher but today I messed up and had clams, which totally wasn't worth it.)
Apotheosis
Member
I like to think that God, the Holy Trinity, any divine being, wont mind if I take their names in vain. There are so many worse things as far as I am concerned, that I dont think that taking a name in vain is all that bad. I would also like to point out, that God is likely very skilled as a listener, and as such, he would recognize that when someone takes his name in vain, he would be able to tell that they dont mean it as a rejection.
Exis
Member
I too have had some trouble with this idea of unforgivable sin, but I have a shot0-in-the-dark theory of what this means. Blasphemy (an act, attitude, or behavior that shows claim of superiority to or inferiority of in a way that shows negativity or contempt) of the Holy Spirit (The invisible force and silent voice of the trinity that is God) seems to be a conflict with one's own spirit. By saying this I mean to say that one's true eternal self is defined by spirit (Note: Where there are three, there is no God, but where there is one, I am with that one). So to Blaspheme one's own embodiment of the Holy Spirit, is to blaspheme one's true self, cause an inner-personal conflict. Also, the actual quote from Yeshua (Jesus) states that this sin shall not be forgiven on Earth or in Heaven; this shows that this act will not condemn one to Hell, rather will not be forgiven while in Heaven. This also makes sense to be one's own personal unforgiveness with one's self. ...But I could be waaaaaayyyyy off...