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Is the Trinity Biblical?

Scott1

Well-Known Member
dharveymi said:
That is of course true. Just because it is on the Internet, it does not logically follow that is is necessarilly true, but the implication is that because it is on the Internet, it is of questionable verocity. This is also illogical.
Good point.

So, unless someone can demonstrate that it is wrong, I will continue to recommend it.
Fair enough..... debates are not my thing (I get frustrated too easily) so I will let this one die........ :)

. I choose to believe and recommend that others believe those positions for which we have the most evidence.
I commend you for this attitude..... God bless you for teaching me your beliefs. (I sent some Karma your way!!)

Concerning a wasting time, only those who do not have their minds open to truth will every waste their time in an open and honest discussion of the facts.
Very true..... I hope you did not take the "waste of time" comment the wrong way.... I only meant that we seem to be at an impass.....

Faith in God and his divine son Jesus Christ is paramount..... all of the rest (at least to me) is fun to talk about, but sometimes the discussion only seems to drive a wedge in between Christians who should spend more time in fellowship than debate.

Looking forward to the next topic!

Peace in Christ,
Scott
 

dharveymi

Member
I would like to commend those that share the spirit of the last post, but each of those who hope for unity will only find themselves disappointed. Unity can only be found in truth. It is a love of the Truth that unites those who are eagerly awaiting the return of Him who loved us so much.

I have a heavy heart because some think that the consequences of our discussions have no eternal benefit, but are simply "fun to talk about." Let me share with you one of my favorite verses:

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. John 17:3

Would you like to have eternal life? It is only through the knowledge of the only true God, and Jesus Christ that we may gain eternal life. This is a saving knowledge. God want's us to know Him. He wants us to understand what He is like. He doesn't want us to blindly or ignorantly follow Him. He want's us to know that He loves us. He loved us more than the most precious treasure of the universe, Jesus, the only son every born to the Father, before the worlds were made. The extent of God's sacrifice is beyond measure (if you have a son, you know what I mean.) It was possible that when God sent His Son to this world, he would never see Him again, ever. Knowing that His Son would carry this burden to the cross and beyond, that He could not comfort or encourage His son, broke His heart. At the time of Jesus's greatest trial, He would have to withdraw His very presence from the Son He loved so much and leave him alone without hope. The Father did this to save you, to save me. You may not understand now. It may go against everything you have ever been taught, but I can assure you that God loves you that much, that my words are true, and that this is not a trivial matter. Indeed, it's a matter of life and death.
 

Ronald

Well-Known Member
AMEIN to that post!

There is one other thing important to believers, who have attained salvation.
That is to become obedient servants of God.
 

Scott1

Well-Known Member
dharveymi and ronald,

Would you like to have eternal life?
Give me a break......

Maybe one day I will be as holy and pious as you two, but I guess for now I will just sit back have you teach me the gospel.....

Amein to that?

Peace,
Scott
 

Ronald

Well-Known Member
How did we gore your OX?
Don't go away MAD!
I did not see any Holier than thou, in deharymi's post.
If you saw that in mine. I'm sorry, was never the intent.
 

dharveymi

Member
I think you are right. Once we know how much God loves us, we are compelled to love Him in return. It is this love for God that gives us the power to overcome our inherited propensity to disobey and sin. Jesus said,

If ye love me, keep my commandments. John 14:15

I like the way the NASB puts it:

"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments." It is a natural result, if you love someone, you desire to do what pleases him/her. If we love Him, we will keep His commandments.

Do you want to know who much you love Him? Do an inventory. Do you keep his commandments? How many of them? Which ones have been "done away with"? If you find you are not keeping them all, then the logical conclusion is that you don't love Him that much.

So should we force ourselves by shear will to do those things so we can demonstrate how much we love Him? Of course not! If you don't love someone, you just don't love them, no amount of trying to please Him will make you love Him. Instead, we must go back, learn more about who God is, what He is like, and how much He loves us. Armed with this additional knowledge, we become even more compelled to love Him and obey.
 

Scott1

Well-Known Member
Ronald said:
How did we gore your OX?
Don't go away MAD!
I did not see any Holier than thou, in deharymi's post.
If you saw that in mine. I'm sorry, was never the intent.
Gore my OX?????????? :D :D :D

Thanks for the laugh Ronald........... I am not mad at all.

God bless you,
Scott
 

dharveymi

Member
You guys are too fast for me. Obviously my last post goes a couple back.

Can we have the assurance of eternal life?

He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. I John 5:13, 14

John seemed to think so. The secret is in believing that God has a Son. This is the kind of knowledge I'm talking about.

OK, I have a tendency to sound like a preacher; when I was a kid, I thought I lived at church, so please forgive me, but I am being honest. I believe it so strongly, it has changed my life. It has made me a better man, a sinner still, but one in whom God can live when I give Him the chance.
 

Scott1

Well-Known Member
dharveymi,

OK, I have a tendency to sound like a preacher
Fair enough.

I would ask that you ask me questions about my faith instead of preaching.....

Might help things along conversation wise.......... just a thought.

Can we have the assurance of eternal life?
See, it's stuff like this that I don't like.... you are asking and answering your own questions in a debate forum................. :(

Peace in Christ,
Scott
 

dharveymi

Member
Once again, my apologies, I extrapolated the question from the following quote. Maybe I was off base.

Maybe one day I will be as holy and pious as you two, but I guess for now I will just sit back have you teach me the gospel.....
 

Scott1

Well-Known Member
dharveymi,

No apology needed. I really do enjoy learning about faith and those who have faith...

Why don't you start a new topic about something you enjoy (or something you think we don't have in common) and we can start something new!!

Looking forward to it.......

Your friend in Christ,
Scott
 
THE INFINITE SPIRIT


BACK in eternity, when the Universal Father's "first" infinite and absolute thought finds in the Eternal Son such a perfect and adequate word for its divine expression, there ensues the supreme desire of both the Thought-God and the Word-God for a universal and infinite agent of mutual expression and combined action.

In the dawn of eternity both the Father and the Son become infinitely cognizant of their mutual interdependence, their eternal and absolute oneness; and therefore do they enter into an infinite and everlasting covenant of divine partnership. This never-ending compact is made for the execution of their united concepts throughout all of the circle of eternity; and ever since this eternity event the Father and the Son continue in this divine union.

We are now face to face with the eternity origin of the Infinite Spirit, the Third Person of Deity. The very instant that God the Father and God the Son conjointly conceive an identical and infinite action--the execution of an absolute thought-plan--that very moment, the Infinite Spirit springs full-fledgedly into existence.

In thus reciting the order of the origin of the Deities, I do so merely to enable you to think of their relationship. In reality they are all three existent from eternity; they are existential. They are without beginning or ending of days; they are co-ordinate, supreme, ultimate, absolute, and infinite. They are and always have been and ever shall be. And they are three distinctly individualized but eternally associated persons, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Spirit.


[from The Urantia Book]


P.S. I hope this helps even though it is not Biblical !


Cheers
 

dharveymi

Member
Facsinating, how about,

The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. When [there were] no depths, I was brought forth (born); when [there were] no fountains abounding with water. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth (born): While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. When he prepared the heavens, I [was] there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: Then I was by him, [as] one brought up [with him]: and I was daily [his] delight, rejoicing always before him; Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights [were] with the sons of men.
 
URANTIAN TRINITY CONCEPTS



The first Urantian revelation leading to the comprehension of the Paradise Trinity was made by the staff of Prince Caligastia (Devil ) about one-half million years ago. This earliest Trinity concept was lost to the world in the unsettled times following the planetary rebellion.

The second presentation of the Trinity was made by Adam and Eve in the first and second gardens. These teachings had not been wholly obliterated even in the times of Machiventa Melchizedek about thirty-five thousand years later, for the Trinity concept of the Sethites persisted in both Mesopotamia and Egypt but more especially in India, where it was long perpetuated in Agni, the Vedic three-headed fire god.

The third presentation of the Trinity was made by Machiventa Melchizedek, and this doctrine was symbolized by the three concentric circles which the sage of Salem wore on his breast plate. But Machiventa found it very difficult to teach the Palestinian Bedouins about the Universal Father, the Eternal Son, and the Infinite Spirit. Most of his disciples thought that the Trinity consisted of the three Most Highs of Norlatiadek; a few conceived of the Trinity as the System Sovereign, the Constellation Father, and the local universe Creator Deity; still fewer even remotely grasped the idea of the Paradise association of the Father, Son, and Spirit.

Through the activities of the Salem missionaries the Melchizedek teachings of the Trinity gradually spread throughout much of Eurasia and northern Africa. It is often difficult to distinguish between the triads and the trinities in the later Andite and the post-Melchizedek ages, when both concepts to a certain extent intermingled and coalesced.

Among the Hindus the trinitarian concept took root as Being, Intelligence, and Joy. (A later Indian conception was Brahma, Siva, and Vishnu.) While the earlier Trinity portrayals were brought to India by the Sethite priests, the later ideas of the Trinity were imported by the Salem missionaries and were developed by the native intellects of India through a compounding of these doctrines with the evolutionary triad conceptions.

The Buddhist faith developed two doctrines of a trinitarian nature: The earlier was Teacher, Law, and Brotherhood; that was the presentation made by Gautama Siddhartha. The later idea, developing among the northern branch of the followers of Buddha, embraced Supreme Lord, Holy Spirit, and Incarnate Savior.

And these ideas of the Hindus and Buddhists were real trinitarian postulates, that is, the idea of a threefold manifestation of a monotheistic God. A true trinity conception is not just a grouping together of three separate gods.

The Hebrews knew about the Trinity from the Kenite traditions of the days of Melchizedek, but their monotheistic zeal for the one God, Yahweh, so eclipsed all such teachings that by the time of Jesus' appearance the Elohim doctrine had been practically eradicated from Jewish theology. The Hebrew mind could not reconcile the trinitarian concept with the monotheistic belief in the One Lord, the God of Israel.

The followers of the Islamic faith likewise failed to grasp the idea of the Trinity. It is always difficult for an emerging monotheism to tolerate trinitarianism when confronted by polytheism. The trinity idea takes best hold of those religions which have a firm monotheistic tradition coupled with doctrinal elasticity. The great monotheists, the Hebrews and Mohammedans, found it difficult to distinguish between worshiping three gods, polytheism, and trinitarianism, the worship of one Deity existing in a triune manifestation of divinity and personality.

Jesus taught his apostles the truth regarding the persons of the Paradise Trinity, but they thought he spoke figuratively and symbolically. Having been nurtured in Hebraic monotheism, they found it difficult to entertain any belief that seemed to conflict with their dominating concept of Yahweh. And the early Christians inherited the Hebraic prejudice against the Trinity concept.

The first Trinity of Christianity was proclaimed at Antioch and consisted of God, his Word, and his Wisdom. Paul knew of the Paradise Trinity of Father, Son, and Spirit, but he seldom preached about it and made mention thereof in only a few of his letters to the newly forming churches. Even then, as did his fellow apostles, Paul confused Jesus, the Creator Son of the local universe, with the Second Person of Deity, the Eternal Son of Paradise.

The Christian concept of the Trinity, which began to gain recognition near the close of the first century after Christ, was comprised of the Universal Father, the Creator Son of Nebadon, ( Jesus ) and the Divine Minister of Salvington--Mother Spirit ( Holy Ghost )of the local universe and creative consort of the Creator Son.

Not since the times of Jesus has the factual identity of the Paradise Trinity been known on Urantia (except by a few individuals to whom it was especially revealed) until its presentation in these revelatory disclosures. But though the Christian concept of the Trinity erred in fact, it was practically true with respect to spiritual relationships. Only in its philosophic implications and cosmological consequences did this concept suffer embarrassment: It has been difficult for many who are cosmic minded to believe that the Second Person of Deity, the second member of an infinite Trinity, once dwelt on Urantia; and while in spirit this is true, in actuality it is not a fact. The Michael Creators ( Jesus Christs )fully embody the divinity of the Eternal Son, but they are not the absolute personality.



[from The Urantia Book]



Cheers
 

Pah

Uber all member
dharveymi said:
And... If you don't beleive this, please email the aliens that wrote this book.

This is a personal opinion, Dharveymi.

The origin of sacred writing is very much a "glass house" issue. For some of us the "inspiration" of a supernatural being or the finding of gold tablets has little distinction from an extra-terrestrial source. It is not really appropiate to belittle the foundation of anothers belief without putting yourself at risk.
 

dharveymi

Member
I wasn't belittling anyone. Aliens did write that book. Check out their website. The origin of a document relates directly to it's verocity. I admit that accourding to the Bible, holy men wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. I accept that statement with everything that it implies, I'm not ashamed of it. Why should Urantians be ashamed of the origin of their sacred writing? If they are ashamed of it, maybe they shouldn't quote long passages from them with no explanation.
 

Pah

Uber all member
dharveymi said:
I wasn't belittling anyone...

I'm sorry, dharveymi, I took your statement "And... If you don't beleive this, please email the aliens that wrote this book." as flippant. Others might, as well. It is equivalent, in my mind, as saying in response to biblical verse "And... If you don't beleive this, please email the god that wrote this book."

Now, I'm going to move on.
 
dharveymi said:
I wasn't belittling anyone. Aliens did write that book. Check out their website. The origin of a document relates directly to it's verocity. I admit that accourding to the Bible, holy men wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. I accept that statement with everything that it implies, I'm not ashamed of it. Why should Urantians be ashamed of the origin of their sacred writing? If they are ashamed of it, maybe they shouldn't quote long passages from them with no explanation.


Of course "aliens" wrote The Urantia Book, for how else would we get REVEALED TRUTH ? It should be plainly obvious to anyone who has ever read any of the so called "Holy Books", that 95% of the content is man made, because these "Holy Books' are riddled with inconsistencies and contradictions. Is God illiterate and logically challenged ?
As far as quoting long passages from The UBook with no explanation; no explanation is needed as The UBook is written in plain, clear and concise English. If a person doesn't understand, more likely than not, it is due to their lack of knowledge and in some cases there is a comprehension problem but that does not in any way reflect on what The UBook has to say !!
In this particular discussion The UBook clearly states that Godhead is a Trinity made up of God The Father, Eternal Son and Infinite Spirit.



Cheers
 

dharveymi

Member
Well there you go, the inconsistent and contradictory works of Solomon, wisest man who ever lived, or the illiterate and logically challenged Daniel, who rose from slave to leader of the then known world. How could they ever compete with aliens, especially ones sent by you know who?

Seriously, what credentials do these aliens have? Do we know their parents? Maybe, they're outcasts from their planet. It would be great if we could get an interview, maybe with Letterman.

What's great about humans is that they are real. Human's are like you and me. They're not perfect, but they caulk up a record as they live with us. Now you don't have to believe them, that's true, but I'll take old flesh and blood, living and dying, loving and laughing, mistakes and all over siliconocytoplasm mystic mumbo jumbo any day, and I would bet my neighbor, his neighbor, her neighbor... would too. So when you want to get REAL, when you want to KNOW, when you want to SEE, turn to Him in whom is all Truth.

If I offend, I apologize, but know it is with the greatest love that speak so boldly. There are many who will teach "another Jesus", don't listen. Turn and worship the one true God.
 
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