Did Muhammed make the night journey

England my lionheart said:

Post 12 proves nothing,Sura 17 proves nothing,Jerusalem isn't even mentioned in the Quran .

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England my lionheart said:

Allah/Illah was the name of the pre Islamic Pagan God of the Arabs and probably belongs in a different thread.
As stated earlier,there was'nt a Mosque or a place of worship for Muslims in Jerusalem during the lifetime of Muhammed so it cannot be Jerusalem but if you place Medina as the place with the furthest Mosque then it adds up,Mecca and Medina are holy places for Muslims,a place of worship existed during the lifetime of Muhammed,simple isn't it.

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Fatihah said:

Response: No supposition at all. As for Yahweh, the name is actually a made up name by the jews in replace of Allah.

In early jewish tradition, the people thought themselves to be unworthy to speak the name of God so loosely. So instead, they would say, "Adonai" (the lord) instead of the word represented by "YHWH".

The letters, YHWH are represented in Exodus 3:14. There we see that God revealed a name to Moses when Moses asked of what name should he say when he tells them that the God of their fathers has sent him.

That name is YHWH, according to the scripture. But as I said before, the ancient hebrew was lost. So today, the meaning and pronunciation of the word is not known. The best guess would be "Yahweh", meaning "He is". This is why the english translation will say "I Am".

So the question would be, did God actually say "YHWH"? Again, in those times, it became apart of tradition not speak God's name. They thought that such a thing is unholy to speak his name so loosely and the name should not be said so loosely on the mouths of unholy people. Instead, they would say, "Adonai", meaning "the lord".

Keeping this in mind, if the people did not wish to speak God's name so loosely, it is most logical to understand that his name was not written down either. So this is why "YHWH" was written in it's place.

Further proof can be established when we look at the origin of the word "Jehovah". You see, after "YHWH" was written in the scripture, since those people of that time did not speak the name represented by "YHWH", when two scholars came later to add the vowels to the scripture, they added the vowels of the hebrew word "Adonai" (the Lord), to indicate to the reader that the word referred to God and they should read "The Lord". This would make it Yahoiwah. But later in the 16th century, another scholar mistakenly took the word as an actual word. The "J" in latin is pronounced as a "Y", so you get Jahoiwah. And to finally anglo-size the word, it became Jehovah.

This is not only an example of how the ancient jews treated and respected the name of God in such a delicate fashion but how new names are created. They could have easily just made up some vowels. This is how sensative they were to playing with the word. But this was not the tradition of all jews. Many had no problem saying "Allah" or "Elloha" in classical hebrew.

For evidence of this, when you read the tanakh, you will notice that at times, the same stories are repeated. The only difference is that one story says "God" (Elloha) while the other says " "The Lord" for God. (Yahweh). An example is in Gen.1:1 and Gen 2:4. This goes to show that some jewish traditions required that you don't speak the name of God.

So again, if you can't speak it, you can't write it. Since "Yahweh" is the closest pronunciation to the "YHWH" in hebrew, and the word means "He is", then we can conclude that when writing the scripture, some jews replaced "Allah" with "He is", which in hebrew means "Yahweh".

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not4me said:

It's amazing how some ignorants think that the interpretation of the Qur'an is open for them.
The prophet didn't immigrate to Medina then. The Journey took place when the prophet was still in Mecca.

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arimoff said:

Actually you are wrong. we as Jews do not pronounce the word Ado-noi this is the name that we don't pronounce in vain, only during prayer same as Elo-him, we Ha-shem (the name), the other 2 names are usually used according to the text, Ado-noi is used when to describe G-D as judging and Elo-him as merciful one.

Allah name did come out of a name Elo-him, in Hebrew it is written almost the same,
but dont forget that no where in the Tanakh you will find Allah!!!

So most probably the name Elo-him was originally used by Israelites and arab tribes since they are descendants of Abraham, witch with time became Allah and as an idol as was mentioned above and the rest is history.

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Fatihah said:

Response: You yourself may not pronounce adonai, but that's you. The early jewish tradition however did just that. However, how can you say you don't pronounce the word "ado-noi", yet it was you who just wrote the word above in response to me writing the word "adonai"? That would show that you are obviously pronouncing it. Otherwise, how can you write it? How can you respond? The fact that you responded to my post means that you read it and if you read it, you obviously are pronouncing it.

Secondly, as you have stated, Ellohim is spelled the same way as "Allah". Therefore, Allah is in the tanakh.

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England my lionheart said:

Allah/Illah was the name of the pre Islamic Pagan God of the Arabs and probably belongs in a different thread.
As stated earlier,there was'nt a Mosque or a place of worship for Muslims in Jerusalem during the lifetime of Muhammed so it cannot be Jerusalem but if you place Medina as the place with the furthest Mosque then it adds up,Mecca and Medina are holy places for Muslims,a place of worship existed during the lifetime of Muhammed,simple isn't it.

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Fatihah said:

Response: Denial is always an option.

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not4me said:

It's amazing how some ignorants think that the interpretation of the Qur'an is open for them.
The prophet didn't immigrate to Medina then. The Journey took place when the prophet was still in Mecca.

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iloveislam said:

Good point!

This issue was addressed by the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) when he said:

“If anyone interprets the Book of Allah in the light of his opinion even if he is right, he is still wrong”
[Sunan Abu Dawud – Book 25, Number 3644]​

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England my lionheart said:

Morning Kai,i know that base was covered but it makes little or no sense for obvious supernatural reasons whereas the journey to Medina took 12 nights (night journey) and the reason for the journey to Medina was to escape his enemies and meet up with his supporters and be safe plus the fact that there was already a place of worship in Medina specific to Muslims it maes sense.
A night journey to Jerusalem would require a large pinch of salt,first there is no mention of Jerusalem in the Quran at all then we are asked to believe in flying Horses,Muhammed never got to Jerusalem but he did get to Medina.

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England my lionheart said:

Morning Kai,i know that base was covered but it makes little or no sense for obvious supernatural reasons whereas the journey to Medina took 12 nights (night journey) and the reason for the journey to Medina was to escape his enemies and meet up with his supporters and be safe plus the fact that there was already a place of worship in Medina specific to Muslims it maes sense.
A night journey to Jerusalem would require a large pinch of salt,first there is no mention of Jerusalem in the Quran at all then we are asked to believe in flying Horses,Muhammed never got to Jerusalem but he did get to Medina.

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Angelfire said:

Dear England, I do want to thank you for the entertainment produced on this thread. I am sure you already know that whatever you say, whatever you prove, will be wrong.

Have you ever heard that old saying, "Its pointless using REASON to argue something that was reached without it". :yes:



Peace

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arimoff said:

as you see i did not, I wrote it as 2 words and miss spelled it. Do not put words in my mouth I did not say the same way i said almost the same, learn to read.

you just took my words and rewrote them to your liking, sounds like following in the foot steps of the first traveler.

As you see my friend since I did not say the same but almost the same, you still wont find it in Tanakh,
You know you have to be really shameless to do what you just did . Go read the Tanakh and come back and tell me if you found it.

I can give you one hint: Tanakh was written before Islam. good luck

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arimoff said:

And Plz Fatiha don't try to rub it in my face what we do and how, past or present, because you have no idea absolutely what Judaism is,..

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Fatihah said:

Response: So the night journey is unbelievable because it doesn't say what you want it to say. Such an excuse only shows to the contrary that it is very believable and so is your denial.

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