=Something Bad Jesus Did=

Ben Masada · Aug 15, 2009

free spirit said:
Yes all Faiths at first are based on supposition, for I too had faith on what my denomination and my family had taught me.
But as I grown up I knew that I was not what the doctrine required of me but i kept on doing my best and hoping that God would have mercy on me.
But thirty years ago at the age of 36 I heard for the first time Jesus and the word of God preached from the bible; I cannot explain to you in details what took place within my mind.
But from that time I know my faith is no longer a supposition, it became a fact. And not only that but I have grown in the knowledge and understanding of the Holy one. proverbs 9: 10.

Have you ever probed your knowledge and understanding of the Holy One, blessed be He, with Isaiah 8:20? "To the Law and the Testimony; if they don't speak according to this pattern, it's because there is no light in them." By the Law, the Prophet means the Torah. By the Testimony, the Prophets and the rest of the Tanach. Can you test, under that light, what you teach and score a passing grade? I would like to hope so.

free spirit · Aug 15, 2009

shortfade2 said:
harmonious, all of your arguments do not come close to free spirit, leave arguing against Christianity up to Ben Masada. How do I give you Frubals, FS?

Thanks shortfade2 click on the silver picture on the R/H conner,

free spirit · Aug 15, 2009

Ben Masada said:
Have you ever probed your knowledge and understanding of the Holy One, blessed be He, with Isaiah 8:20? "To the Law and the Testimony; if they don't speak according to this pattern, it's because there is no light in them." By the Law, the Prophet means the Torah. By the Testimony, the Prophets and the rest of the Tanach. Can you test, under that light, what you teach and score a passing grade? I would like to hope so.

Yes Ben I have the knowledge and understanding of the holy one, not because I have the knowledge of the letter of the Law or the Testimony. But because my fleshly human nature has been transformed by his grace in the likeness of the holy one, you ought to know that all wisdom and knowledge are in Christ.
Read ISAIAH 9: 6 to 7, you will find that ISAIAH is describing Jesus (the holy one) in these verses.

Harmonious · Aug 15, 2009

You know, after this response, I truly understand why my brother put you on Ignore. I may follow suit. But not before I answer you.

free spirit said:
Christians believe in the Old Testament, And its main message is that the Christ was going to come, the prophecy in the scriptures points him out.

No, the main message is that the Jews should follow God's law, both those concerning God and man, and man to his neighbor. There were some messages that if the Jews didn't do that, God would punish us, and then once we were punished, God would rescue us. And we would have a leader we can count on to help us stay true to the original message.

Jesus is nowhere to be found in this, except in your own heart and mind.

The present Jews are the children of Esau who depreciated the blessing; The children of Jacob the true Jews and appreciators of the blessing believed in him.

That ignorant comment is worthy of placing you squarely on my Ignore List. :slap:

No, the children of Jacob are BIOLOGICALLY still the children of Jacob. In other words, JEWS are still Jacob, biologically and otherwise. JEWS are still Israel. It is only your own bizarre theological inclination that would turn around and state that Jews are "children of Esav."

For the record, because Herod's father was actually an Edomite, and was involved in Roman politics more than anything Jewish, Rome is equated with Esav. As such, because Christianity was a belief that was born while Israel was under the influence of Rome, CHRISTIANS are thought to be children of Esav. This isn't tit-for-tat, but this is common parlance among Jews. It is just as common parlance for Jews to speak of Muslims as from Ishmael.

The fact that you have decided to turn tradition on its head only shows how ignorant you are.

You are dreaming; the fact is that you are no different, in your midst there are murderers of peace lowing prime ministers, thief's and corrupt people in government,

Every barrel has bad apples. But to say what Jewish law IS based on those who go against it makes as much sense as it is to say that all Christians are vile murderers, not much different than the Islamic terrorists. After all, for most of Christian history, Christians killed and pillaged all kinds of people who were NOT Christians, and didn't accept the missionaries.

But I would not stoop to such stupidity to fail to realize that most Christians are good people who try to follow what they perceive to be Jesus' teaching. You, however, are a moron.

greed is prominent among Jews, you are following the golden calf of idolatry like the rest of the world;

Stereotypes. Not even useful stereotypes. I wonder if you ever MET a Jew. More to the point, I wonder if you ever met a Jew who was actually following the Torah. I'm willing to bet you haven't met either.

With the added sin of claiming to be the "chosen people of God"

It is no sin to speak the truth. But then again, you wouldn't know the truth if it deviated from your deeply ingrained stereotypes if it smacked you in the nose.

But then again, recognizing the difference between truth and stereotypes actually requires thought, something I'm not sure you are capable of.

Your non-Jewish neighbor have been unkind to you because of your hypocrisy, they were reflecting the anger of God for it is written in the book of Malachi 1: 2, " I have loved Jacob; but I have hated Esau"

For this, the Jews deserved to be slaughtered in the Crusades? Because you have decided that Jews needed to be killed and expelled from every country in Europe? The Jews probably deserved the Holocaust too, huh? Thanks for letting me know. :facepalm:

No is not unreasonable for you to have a place, but from the beginning you sort to gain that place by steeling it from others, God does not work that way, if he wanted you to have it he would prosper you in that place, by winning for you the favors of your neighbors.

I'm assuming you never actually studied the history of the late 1940s. There were documents called the Balfour Declaration, and other such things, requiring the Jews to BUY land. Then there was the White Paper, which declared that the British forbade Jews to enter Israel when the Nazis were killing Jews all over the place.

But then again, actual learning would require you to think, and I'm not certain that you are capable of thinking or learning.

I'm also assuming that you have never actually BEEN to Israel, to see how Jews operate. (That would require you to SEE Jews, something that I'm certain you've never done.)

Well can you see now, you have not met the conditions of God YET, and you never will, for no one can live according to the law. "WE WILL BE INVINCIBLE," this is the arrogance of fleshly people it will be yet again your downfall.

Actually, if you read the long rebukes God gives in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, God actually PROMISES that the Jews will be in wars and will be victorious. God actually PROMISES that the Jews will be invincible.

But for you to acknowledge this means that you might have even READ Leviticus and Deuteronomy besides the verses you seem to like. Call it "arrogance of fleshy people" if you like. I would quote it for you, but you are just as likely to ignore it if I did as you are currently. So I won't bother.

Only the love of CHRIST in you will make you INVINCIBLE

Only in your dreams and wishes.

You are greatly mistaken for the promises of God are all true in the spirit

If you had the gift of the Holy Spirit in your hart you would certainly know what the true riches are.

I'll keep that in mind.

I am truly glad to be free of your ignorant hatred that you spew liberally. God bless you, and I hope you grow a braincell at some point. Have a nice life. You are officially on Ignore.

Ben Masada · Aug 16, 2009

free spirit said:
Yes Ben I have the knowledge and understanding of the holy one, not because I have the knowledge of the letter of the Law or the Testimony. But because my fleshly human nature has been transformed by his grace in the likeness of the holy one, you ought to know that all wisdom and knowledge are in Christ.
Read ISAIAH 9: 6 to 7, you will find that ISAIAH is describing Jesus (the holy one) in these verses.

Assumptions free spirit, I have got used to these assumptions. If what you preach is not in the Scriptures that Jesus used to handle, you will never score a passing grade under Isaiah 8:20. Where is it written that God had a son with an woman without the medium of an earthly father? Perhaps in Greece, Egypt, or in some other pagan countries but never in Israel.

free spirit · Aug 16, 2009

Ben Masada said:
Assumptions free spirit, I have got used to these assumptions. If what you preach is not in the Scriptures that Jesus used to handle, you will never score a passing grade under Isaiah 8:20. Where is it written that God had a son with an woman without the medium of an earthly father? Perhaps in Greece, Egypt, or in some other pagan countries but never in Israel.

Is this sufficient Ben?
ISAIAH 7: 14, "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call his name Immanuel."

free spirit · Aug 16, 2009

Harmonious said:
You know, after this response, I truly understand why my brother put you on Ignore. I may follow suit. But not before I answer you.

No, the main message is that the Jews should follow God's law, both those concerning God and man, and man to his neighbor. There were some messages that if the Jews didn't do that, God would punish us, and then once we were punished, God would rescue us. And we would have a leader we can count on to help us stay true to the original message.

Click to expand...

"And you would have a leader you can count on" The leader you can count on is not in the flesh, for he is the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ.

No, the children of Jacob are BIOLOGICALLY still the children of Jacob.

Click to expand...

Biologically children of Jacob? You may as well say we all are the Biological children of Adam.
You ought to know that those tween brothers have a spiritual meaning, and not a biological meaning.

But I would not stoop to such stupidity to fail to realize that most Christians are good people who try to follow what they perceive to be Jesus' teaching. You, however, are a moron.

Click to expand...

Do you know that in Christ if you are being called a moron is a sign that you are on target.

I am truly glad to be free of your ignorant hatred that you spew liberally. God bless you, and I hope you grow a braincell at some point. Have a nice life. You are officially on Ignore.

Click to expand...

Now, now, how can you bless me and curse me at the same time. I would consider a blessing if we can have a civil conversation, I am sure you are a very kind person. If we try we could be brothers.

shortfade2 · Aug 16, 2009

Harmonious said:
I am truly glad to be free of your ignorant hatred that you spew liberally. God bless you, and I hope you grow a braincell at some point. Have a nice life. You are officially on Ignore.

very mature. LALALA! I CANT HEAR YOU! I RUN FROM FIGHTS!!! *cough* sorry that just made me mad. proceed to argue.

free spirit · Aug 16, 2009

TO Harmonious

I'm assuming you never actually studied the history of the late 1940s. There were documents called the Balfour Declaration, and other such things, requiring the Jews to BUY land. Then there was the White Paper, which declared that the British forbade Jews to enter Israel when the Nazis were killing Jews all over the place.

So according to you, if you are able to buy land you have the right to setup an independent country.
As you know the USA people are very sympathetic to the Jewish cause and the USA is very big, they have a lot of room to spare; so buy the land there, rise your flag, and see what happen.
I bet they will soon hate you there too.

But then again, actual learning would require you to think, and I'm not certain that you are capable of thinking or learning.
Yes I am only average.

I'm also assuming that you have never actually BEEN to Israel, to see how Jews operate. (That would require you to SEE Jews, something that I'm certain you've never done.)
I have never been there, but I have heard that they have made the desert bloom, I have also heard that the Palestinians have hardly any water, so what do you want me to do, should I praise you?

free spirit · Aug 16, 2009

TO HARMONIOUS

No, the children of Jacob are BIOLOGICALLY still the children of Jacob. In other words, JEWS are still Jacob, biologically and otherwise. JEWS are still Israel. It is only your own bizarre theological inclination that would turn around and state that Jews are "children of Esav."

For the record, because Herod's father was actually an Edomite, and was involved in Roman politics more than anything Jewish, Rome is equated with Esav. As such, because Christianity was a belief that was born while Israel was under the influence of Rome, CHRISTIANS are thought to be children of Esav. This isn't tit-for-tat, but this is common parlance among Jews. It is just as common parlance for Jews to speak of Muslims as from Ishmael.

The fact that you have decided to turn tradition on its head only shows how ignorant you are.

You should get to know your history for we read in Romans 9 – 6 to 13: “But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel, neither are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but through Isaac your descendants will be named. That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.”----------- And verse 13 says, “Just as it is written, Jacob I loved but ESAU I hated.”

Please ask yourself, is Esau a descendent of Abraham? And if he is, why does God say that about him. Obviously Esau is not the apple of God’s eye, even if he is the twin brother of Jacob. The problem is that most of us cannot distinguish the differences in the attitude of the two children of Isaac. So let me explain to you that the present day Jews who do not believe in the Lord Jesus are children of the flesh as Esau was, and unfortunately we read that God is not very pleased with them, unless they convert and believe in the life of our Lord Jesus, in order to be saved from eternal death, Just as all the rest of the unregenerate believers have to do. For it is not enough to believe in the existence of God, without doing also the works of repentance, as you know the Devil also believes in the existence of God.

Another clear example is found in the story of Cain and Abel who were also brothers and they both believed in God, but Cain’s fleshly attitude did not find favour with God even before he killed Abel. Similarly to that, have we forgotten that in the beginning of Christianity the fleshly Jews following in the footsteps of Cain and persecuted those who were of the Spirit, and stirred up the pagans to do the same? We must strengthen our spiritual discernment to distinguish that those Jews and pagans who persecuted the Christians in the beginning; did not believe in Jesus, but believed in God through the flesh and not through the spirit. Therefore their fleshly brutal attitude makes them the obvious children of Esau and or Cain.

free spirit · Aug 16, 2009

TO HARMONIOUS

Every barrel has bad apples. But to say what Jewish law IS based on those who go against it makes as much sense as it is to say that all Christians are vile murderers, not much different than the Islamic terrorists. After all, for most of Christian history, Christians killed and pillaged all kinds of people who were NOT Christians, and didn't accept the missionaries.

Yes the children of ABEL and CAIN or Jacob and ESAU are in every corner of the glob.

free spirit · Aug 17, 2009

TO HARMONIOUS
For this, the Jews deserved to be slaughtered in the Crusades? Because you have decided that Jews needed to be killed and expelled from every country in Europe? The Jews probably deserved the Holocaust too, huh? Thanks for letting me know. :facepalm:

If I remember correctly the Crusades killed Jews, Christians and Muslims. They didn't bother to separated them they were murdering scums, they did not single out the Jews as you would have us believe.
Jews were expelled from other countries because they would not assimilate with the indigenous population, no government like to have a fifth colon in their country.
Here egain you single yourself out to be the only people who suffered under Nazi Germany, how about mentioning the other fourteen millions that were slathered like the GYPSY, THE JW, THE CONSCIENCE OBJECTORS, THE HANDICAPPED, THE BOLSHEVIK'S, the Bolshevik numbers surpasses by far the number of Jews, but your Berlin memorial make no mention of them, if you the chosen people of God can do that with a clear conscience, you cannot blame that some other idiot negate that the Holocaust never took place. You should know that, if you claim to be the chosen people of God you expose yourself to be judged with more severity if you measure up to your claim, and so far you have failed every time. If you believe that you are chosen, you need also to act like the chosen ones. And demostrate God's compassionate nature.

Vile Atheist · Aug 17, 2009

free spirit said:
TO HARMONIOUS
For this, the Jews deserved to be slaughtered in the Crusades? Because you have decided that Jews needed to be killed and expelled from every country in Europe? The Jews probably deserved the Holocaust too, huh? Thanks for letting me know.

If I remember correctly the Crusades killed Jews, Christians and Muslims. They didn't bother to separated them they were murdering scums, they did not single out the Jews as you would have us believe.
Jews were expelled from other countries because they would not assimilate with the indigenous population, no government like to have a fiph colon in their country.
Here egain you single yourself out to be the only people who suffered under Nazi Germany, how about mentioning the other fourteen millions that were slathered like the GYPSY, THE JW, THE CONSCIENCE OBJECTORS, THE HANDICAPPED, THE BOLSHEVIK'S, the Bolshevik numbers surpasses by far the number of Jews, but your Berlin memorial make no mention of them, if you the chosen people of God can do that with a clear conscience you cannot blame for some other idiot negate that the Holocaust never took place. You should know that if you claim to be the chosen people of God you expose yourself to be judged with severity if you measure up to your claim, ans so far you have failed every time.

Personally I think it's rather disgusting to attempt to discern "who suffered more" based on the numbers killed, just as you're doing. Furthermore, whatever claim you want to make as to "who suffered more", there is no logical reason behind it. Do you want an award? More sympathy? What?

But I guess this is the morality you got from the Bible, correct? This is your "Christ-like life"? To compare and quantify suffering instead of reviling all suffering equally. You denigrate the people - all the people - who have ever suffered on this miserable pale blue dot when you play this sort of sick game.

To any Jews - especially Jews who had relatives who suffered through the Holocaust - I apologize on behalf of this insult to common decency.

free spirit · Aug 17, 2009

ContentiusMaximus said:
Personally I think it's rather disgusting to attempt to discern "who suffered more" based on the numbers killed, just as you're doing. Furthermore, whatever claim you want to make as to "who suffered more", there is no logical reason behind it. Do you want an award? More sympathy? What?

But I guess this is the morality you got from the Bible, correct? This is your "Christ-like life"? To compare and quantify suffering instead of reviling all suffering equally. You denigrate the people - all the people - who have ever suffered on this miserable pale blue dot when you play this sort of sick game.

To any Jews - especially Jews who had relatives who suffered through the Holocaust - I apologize on behalf of this insult to common decency.

BRAVO YOU HAVE SOME GOOD POINTS THERE NOT UNLIKE MY.
i SPEAK AS A WHOLE TERRIBLE MESS AND I WISH NOT TO CAUSE OFFENSE TO ANYONE.

Ben Masada · Aug 17, 2009

free spirit said:
Is this sufficient Ben?
ISAIAH 7: 14, "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call his name Immanuel."

Very good! I like that one. The virgin is Israel (Ephraim) and the child is Judah. Wait, I'll explain. That's not that easy.
It would be unfair of mine to throw you this one and let you fend for yourself.

For the virgin being Israel, you can read Amos 5:2. "The virgin Israel has fallen."
The "fallen" here is symbolized by the fact that she gave birth to a child and died of her birth pangs.
This death is symbolized by God's rejection of the Ten of Joseph on a permanent basis. (Psalm 78:67)
And the birth of the child is symbolized by the confirmation or reelection of Judah to be the sole ruler over all the Land of Israel after the fall of Ephraim. (Psalm 78:68)

Having settled the scenario for the virgin Israel, let us go for that child.

Isaiah 7:14. Here, the virgin gives birth to a child.
Isaiah 7:15. Here, the child will feed on butter and honey.
Isaiah 7:22. Here, butter and honey will be the food of all those who remain in the Land.
Who remained in the Land after Israel was removed? The People of Judah, right? Right.
So, Judah is confirmed to be that child born of the virgin.

Now, last but not least, how about Immanuel? For this one, you can read Isaiah 8:8.

Sennakerib,the King of Assyria had a mind to come for Judah and not Israel. (Isa. 9:8)
So, he came and flooded his armies all throughout Judah and camped outside Jerusalem.
The text (Isa. 8:8) says that "The Assyrians spread their wings the full width of YOUR LAND IMMANUEL."
Whose land was that the Assyrians had flooded? The Land of Judah.
So, the Prophet, under God's inspiration, called Judah by the name of Immanuel. Why?
Because although God had allowed the removal of Israel from existence, He would not leave Mankind without God.
Judah would remain Immanuel, which means, God with us. Judah would be the pledge or guarantee that God would remain with Mankind.
That's the role of Judah as Immanuel.

Harmonious · Aug 17, 2009

ContentiusMaximus said:
Personally I think it's rather disgusting to attempt to discern "who suffered more" based on the numbers killed, just as you're doing. Furthermore, whatever claim you want to make as to "who suffered more", there is no logical reason behind it. Do you want an award? More sympathy? What?

But I guess this is the morality you got from the Bible, correct? This is your "Christ-like life"? To compare and quantify suffering instead of reviling all suffering equally. You denigrate the people - all the people - who have ever suffered on this miserable pale blue dot when you play this sort of sick game.

Now you see why I put him on ignore.

To any Jews - especially Jews who had relatives who suffered through the Holocaust - I apologize on behalf of this insult to common decency.

Thank you for your kind words.

free spirit · Aug 17, 2009

Harmonious said:
Now you see why I put him on ignore.
Thank you for your kind words.

I must apologise, I did not realize that your gender is Harmoniousa, so please accept my sincere apologies, I was true but rude, I am sorry.
Can we start again and be friends?

free spirit · Aug 17, 2009

Ben Masada said:
Very good! I like that one. The virgin is Israel (Ephraim) and the child is Judah. Wait, I'll explain. That's not that easy.
It would be unfair of mine to throw you this one and let you fend for yourself.

For the virgin being Israel, you can read Amos 5:2. "The virgin Israel has fallen."
The "fallen" here is symbolized by the fact that she gave birth to a child and died of her birth pangs.
This death is symbolized by God's rejection of the Ten of Joseph on a permanent basis. (Psalm 78:67)
And the birth of the child is symbolized by the confirmation or reelection of Judah to be the sole ruler over all the Land of Israel after the fall of Ephraim. (Psalm 78:68)

Having settled the scenario for the virgin Israel, let us go for that child.

Isaiah 7:14. Here, the virgin gives birth to a child.
Isaiah 7:15. Here, the child will feed on butter and honey.
Isaiah 7:22. Here, butter and honey will be the food of all those who remain in the Land.
Who remained in the Land after Israel was removed? The People of Judah, right? Right.
So, Judah is confirmed to be that child born of the virgin.

Now, last but not least, how about Immanuel? For this one, you can read Isaiah 8:8.

Sennakerib,the King of Assyria had a mind to come for Judah and not Israel. (Isa. 9:8)
So, he came and flooded his armies all throughout Judah and camped outside Jerusalem.
The text (Isa. 8:8) says that "The Assyrians spread their wings the full width of YOUR LAND IMMANUEL."
Whose land was that the Assyrians had flooded? The Land of Judah.
So, the Prophet, under God's inspiration, called Judah by the name of Immanuel. Why?
Because although God had allowed the removal of Israel from existence, He would not leave Mankind without God.
Judah would remain Immanuel, which means, God with us. Judah would be the pledge or guarantee that God would remain with Mankind.
That's the role of Judah as Immanuel.

You have to have a very lively imagination to see what you see, I could do as you did, quoting scriptures to proof my convictions, but is sufficient for me to say that Jesus was from the tribe of Judah, in the OT. you will find it in Micah 5:2, but i will read it from Matthew 2:6, "And you, Bethlehem land of Judah, are by no means least among the leaders of Judah; for out of you shall come forth a rules, who will shepherd my people Israel."

free spirit · Aug 17, 2009

TO HARMONIOUSA

:foryou::foryou::foryou::flirt::drool:

Forgiveness is present in the heart of every child of God, are you one of us?

Ben Masada · Aug 20, 2009

free spirit said:
You have to have a very lively imagination to see what you see, I could do as you did, quoting scriptures to proof my convictions, but is sufficient for me to say that Jesus was from the tribe of Judah, in the OT. you will find it in Micah 5:2, but i will read it from Matthew 2:6, "And you, Bethlehem land of Judah, are by no means least among the leaders of Judah; for out of you shall come forth a rules, who will shepherd my people Israel."

In the type level of symbols, David came out of Bethlehem and became the most famous ruler over all of Israel. In the archetype level of reality, Judah, the People is the one.

But let us consider Jesus. Okay, Jesus was born in Bethlehem, but so were thousands of other Jews, who like Jesus did not become a ruler in Israel. So, what are we talking about here? If you want to go symbolical, I am all ears. What kind of ruler did Jesus become? If he is still to become, I am not that romantic. After 2000 years of wait, you might have to wait another 2000.

Now, regarding Jesus being from the Tribe of Judah, I am the one who believes it; you don't. If you wanna try to discuss the matter with me, be my guest. If you succeed, you might score high by making a Christian out of a Jew. On the other hand, I hope you won't let pride speak louder than commonsense if you fail.

=Something Bad Jesus Did=

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