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Refuting the Trinity Doctrine!

Shiner2

Member
It is common knowledge today, that the Israelite's Nations way of worship was a Monotheistic way of Worship of only one single God; who had instructed that entire Nation, that was the way he wished to be viewed, and worshipped, in their days. This can be seen from the conversation Moses was having with Pharaoh of ancient Egypt: Notice now:

9 "And Moses said to Pharaoh, Glory over me, for what time shall I intreat for thee, and for thy bondmen, and for thy people, to cut off the frogs from thee and from thy houses; [so that] they shall remain in the river only?
10 And he said, For to-morrow. And he said, Be it according to thy word; that thou mayest know that there is NONE LIKE JEHOVAH OUR GOD."
11And the frogs shall depart from thee, and from thy houses, and from thy bondmen, and from thy people: they shall remain in the river only."
Exodus 8:9-11 (D.T.)

How, then would this ancient ruler have viewed Jehovah after hearing the words of Moses? The answer is quite obvious, isn't it? 'None like him'! No other, would be on the mind of Pharaoh. No Polytheism even hinted at there, now is there? As the Trinitarians view it?

Something else of a very serious nature should be kept in mind, as I deal with this discussion, are the Words of the Apostle Peter, that reflects on this very subject. Consider now, these words:
20 "knowing this first, that [the scope of] no prophecy of scripture is had from its own particular interpretation,
21 for prophecy was not ever uttered by [the] will of man, but holy men of God spake under the power of [the] Holy Spirit."
2 Peter 1:20,21(DARBY) These words, spoken by Moses, was written by one of Jehovah's 'Holy Men of old' this Bible writer wrote while under the influence of Jehovah's Holy Spirt, and for anyone, I don't care who it is, to even dare suggest something other than what was written was meant, would be tantamount to committing the sin against the Holy Spirit, was they to try and support the Trinity Doctrine from them. To do that, would be calling Jehovah's Holy Spirit a liar. Very, very dangerous ground to found treading on, at any time. With this in mind, consider the following:
24 "Scarcely have they been planted,
Scarcely have they been sown,
Scarcely has their stock taken root in the earth,
But He merely blows on them, and they wither,
And the storm carries them away like stubble.
25"To whom then WILL YOU LIKEN ME
That I WOULD BE HIS EQUAL?" says the Holy One.
26 Lift up your eyes on high
And see who has created these stars,
The One who leads forth their host by number,
He calls them all by name;
Because of the greatness of His might and the strength of His power,
Not one of them is missing." {Isaiah 40:24-26 (N.A.S.B.)

What now, is Jehovah tellings us through the pen of his inspired Bible Writer? He's telling us that he has no equal, isn't he? Any Trinitarian care to go against those words, and say, that there are three co-eternal, three co-equal God's within, what they describe as a God-Head?

Keeping in mind, that it's not just Jehovah's Holy Man speaking, but Jehovah himself speaking through the mouth and pen of his Prophet Isaiah in this following instance:
8"Remember this, and be assured;
Recall it to mind, you transgressors. {Trinitarians}
9"Remember the former things long past,
For I am God, and there IS NO OTHER;
I am God, and there is NO ONE LIKE ME,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things which have not been done,
Saying, My purpose will be established,
And I will accomplish all My good pleasure'
Isaiah 46:8-10 (N.A.S.B.)

A sensible person reading this statement must conclude, that one single God is speaking here! Not two, not three, just one single one alone. It says: "My purpose." "I will accomplish." "My good pleasure." It doesn't say, "OUR" now does it? "I AM GOD!" Not "we are GOD'S" as Trinitarians would have us believe.

In one of the most beautiful prayers to Jehovah, ever expressed, King Solomon makes it clear to all of us today, just how Jehovah was viewed by the entire Israelite Nation, when he prayed the following:
14 "and he said, O Jehovah, the God of Israel, there is NO GOD LIKE THEE, IN HEAVEN, or on earth; who keepest covenant and loving-kind-ness with thy servants, that walk before thee with all their heart"; 2 Chronicles 6:14 (A.S.V.) As Solomon prayed that prayer, the glorious Angel that was to come to this earth and take on the identity of the Christ was right there 'alongside Jehovah', while King Solomon was praying, yet he could still say, there was 'no God "in heaven" like Jehovah. Jesus himself told us all that he was 'alongside his Father before the World was.' Yet even in the face of that, Solomon did not view this Glorious Angel as Jehovah God. Niether should we! Neither should the Trinitarians! {John 17:5}

Was this Monotheistic way of worship carried over into the first Century while the Christ walked this earth? Could it have been possibly changed over to a polytheistic way of Worship, so the Trinitarian's just might have an excuse for their false teaching? Absolutely not! I should have pointed out at the outset, that Jehovah 'never changes'.

What he required of the Israelite Nation, he required of all of the first Century Christians. The only difference was, now, instead of being under the Old Law Covenant, they was now under the New Covenant established on the Blood of the Christ, doing away with all of the animal sacrifices offered under the Old Law Covenant. {Malachi 3:6}

Anyone, and I mean anyone, reading the Christian Greek Scriptures would easily see, that the Monotheistic way of Worship of only one God, was still in practice. Nothing had changed regarding that particular way of Worship.
All one need do, is examine closely every scripture that deals with this in the New Testament and it is easily seen, Monotheism was still very much in practice. I will now set these Chapters and verses forward, for examination to prove my point.
1 Corinthians 8:5-7- Galatians 1:1-3- Ephesians 6:22-24 - Philippians 2:10-12- Colossians 1:2,3;3:16-18- 1 Thessalonians 1:1-3- 2 Thessalonians 1:1-3-1 Timothy 1:1-3 -2 Timothy 1:1-3 - Titus 1:3-5 -
1 Peter 1:1-3 - 2 Peter 1:17 - Jude 1:1 -

Monotheisim was the way the Hebrew Nation Worshipped! Was the way first Century Christian's worshipped, and if Christian's today are worshipping 'in Spirit and truth' as required, that is the way they will worship today too. If not, their worship is in vain and will avail them nothing. {John 4:23,24}

Now since this Trinity Doctrine is a Poytheistic way of worship; that of course runs counter to the Monotheistic way of Worship of the ancient Jewish Nations, who was the very first Nation on this earth to worship the God of the Bible. That particular type of Worship was condemned by Jehovah, because they was not to intermingle their Worship with the surounding Nations all around them. Who some from among those Nations worshipped a Trinity of Gods. Since that is true, then why would the Trinitarians try to push this doctrine to the fore, self codemning themselves for doing so?

Monotheism refutes the Trinity Doctrine, without even using the scriptures to do it, although, I have used some. Shiner2


 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Monotheism and polytheism aren't the only -theisms that exist, you know.

To one who has studied Hindu God-concepts, the monotheistic Trinity makes perfect sense.

The Holy Spirit is the all-pervasive and non-dual Spirit of God.
The Father is God transcendent.
The Son is God as He is in the material plane.

They are simple viewpoints with which to view God, not separate in any way.

Any Trinitarians agree that this is an accurate description?
 

te_lanus

Alien Hybrid
hi. in my studies i've read that it was only after the exile that the jews became monotheistic. before the exile their was up to 29 different YHWH's. almost every town had it's own. they also worshipped, Asherah as God's wife, Baal, Mot as Lord of 'hell'. only after meeting the 'zoasterians'(spelling ìs wrong :p ) that they embraced the idea of monotheism.
 

Kurt31416

Active Member
The Trinity comes from John the Baptist. The Father is the Son of the Great Life.

Thou art immeasurable, infinite and everlasting. Thou art the Father, Thou art the Brother, Thou art the Son; Thou art the Source, Thou art the great Root of Life; Thou art the First, Thou art the Last

In the name of the Great Life !
Hear me, my Father, hear me! Draw me upward
(O) Great One, son of the mighty (Life),
Our Father, son of the Life !

Etc. etc.

http://www.gnosis.org/library/ginzarba.htm
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
They are simple viewpoints with which to view God, not separate in any way.
I agree. Having been steeped in Hindu mythology for decades I have no difficulty understanding the concept of Trinity... It is certainly as reasonable as any other of your garden variety god concepts.
 

Dunemeister

Well-Known Member
What now, is Jehovah tellings us through the pen of his inspired Bible Writer? He's telling us that he has no equal, isn't he? Any Trinitarian care to go against those words, and say, that there are three co-eternal, three co-equal God's within, what they describe as a God-Head?


It doesn't help when you misrepresent the position you're opposing.
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
Any Trinitarian care to go against those words, and say, that there are three co-eternal, three co-equal God's within, what they describe as a God-Head?
No... no trinitarian would say that there are three different Gods...
 

Shiner2

Member
Monotheism and polytheism aren't the only -theisms that exist, you know.

To one who has studied Hindu God-concepts, the monotheistic Trinity makes perfect sense.

The Holy Spirit is the all-pervasive and non-dual Spirit of God.
The Father is God transcendent.
The Son is God as He is in the material plane.

They are simple viewpoints with which to view God, not separate in any way.

Any Trinitarians agree that this is an accurate description?
Riverwolf!
It may well be that the Trinitarian's agree with this accurate description you speak of; but the entire Israelite Nation Jehovah, his Son, the Christ, and all of the first Century Christian's don't agree with it. My money goes on their opions at every turn of the page. Trinitarians, you name the description of them, haven't a clue as to what they are talking about, and it would appear, neither do you! Shiner2
 

TheKnight

Guardian of Life
The main problem with the Trinity is the fact that three separate beings are equally the same person and yet are separate beings at the same time. Not only does that not logically make any sense, but it's not entirely monotheistic.


Not to mention that Jesus, a man, is included in that description of God and Jesus was a man.

Henotheism is acceptable for a Noahide (so JW's would be "Kosher" under Noahide considerations), but straight up polytheism...or "Pluralistic Monotheism" (as I've heard it called) doesn't work...


Also, I think I should mention that many Orthodox and Hasidic teachings are panentheistic in nature rather then strictly monotheistic.
 

snow duck

New Member
The word trinity is not in the Bible, but the doctrine certainly is. I heard the same thing many years ago that you're saying, and I heard things like "what does the Bible really say? A through study of the scriptures shows us there is a trinity, but there is only one God.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
The word trinity is not in the Bible, but the doctrine certainly is.
I think that all depends on what you believe the doctrine of the Trinity to actually be.

I heard the same thing many years ago that you're saying, and I heard things like "what does the Bible really say? A through study of the scriptures shows us there is a trinity, but there is only one God.
Could you explain what you believe the Trinity to be?
 

Shiner2

Member
To All!
Do you all wish to know what the real problem here is? Let me tell you, why all of this confusion is going on. To begin with, the Apostle John tolds us that this entire World 'lies in the power of the wicked one.' Then he told us that satan is' misleading the entire inhabited earth.' 1 John 5:19} {Revelation 12:9} Coupled with that, one must be 'granted to understand the sacred secrets of the kingdom of God. {Matthew 13:10,11 Then, one must have his 'mind fully opened to grasp the meaning of the scriptures.' {Luke 24:45} Paul also explained that satan has 'blinded the minds of the people of this world, so that the illumination about the glorious good news about the Christ might not shine through.'{ 2 Corinthians 4:3,4}That's why this ugly mess exists right now. Very few actually are allowed to get the true sense of the Bible. On and on it goes! No one ever gets anywhere, because of what I've told you all here! Shiner2
 

GiantHouseKey

Well-Known Member
To All!
Do you all wish to know what the real problem here is? Let me tell you, why all of this confusion is going on. To begin with, the Apostle John tolds us that this entire World 'lies in the power of the wicked one.' Then he told us that satan is' misleading the entire inhabited earth.' 1 John 5:19} {Revelation 12:9} Coupled with that, one must be 'granted to understand the sacred secrets of the kingdom of God. {Matthew 13:10,11 Then, one must have his 'mind fully opened to grasp the meaning of the scriptures.' {Luke 24:45} Paul also explained that satan has 'blinded the minds of the people of this world, so that the illumination about the glorious good news about the Christ might not shine through.'{ 2 Corinthians 4:3,4}That's why this ugly mess exists right now. Very few actually are allowed to get the true sense of the Bible. On and on it goes! No one ever gets anywhere, because of what I've told you all here! Shiner2

Right... So what you're saying is all the things that work as you say they should are God's work and all the things that oppose your theology are the work of the devil?

GhK.
 

Humanistheart

Well-Known Member
The main problem with the Trinity is the fact that three separate beings are equally the same person and yet are separate beings at the same time. Not only does that not logically make any sense, but it's not entirely monotheistic.

.

How do you define 'equally the same person' here knight?
 
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Humanistheart

Well-Known Member
I agree. Having been steeped in Hindu mythology for decades I have no difficulty understanding the concept of Trinity... It is certainly as reasonable as any other of your garden variety god concepts.

I'm not defending the OP's arguement but I think brining up hinduism, while an apt comparision, miss's the point that the hebrew god, pure monothiestic, is changed with the christian version, which shows qualified monotheism.
 
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Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
The main problem with the Trinity is the fact that three separate beings are equally the same person and yet are separate beings at the same time.
Actually, that is the opposite formulation of the Trinity... which is three seperate persons equally the same being...
 

Dunemeister

Well-Known Member
The main problem with the Trinity is the fact that three separate beings are equally the same person and yet are separate beings at the same time. Not only does that not logically make any sense, but it's not entirely monotheistic.

It's also not trinitarian.
 

Dunemeister

Well-Known Member
And this is what confuses me... I've always thought that a "person" was a "being."

That's because you are thinking in terms of the physical reality with which you are typically confronted. There are no better terms to use in English to distinguish the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit than "person." However, in every formulation of the trinity accepted since Nicaea, there has been great care to emphasize that the distinctions (called "persons") are not dividing "the substance", that is, the divine being. There is one divine being who exists as three persons.

The problem, really, is not with the doctrine of the trinity so much as the fact that, in English, the only terms we have available for us to discuss the distinctions being made involve ideas we typically identify, such as "person" with "being."
 

Dunemeister

Well-Known Member
I'm not defending the OP's arguement but I think brining up hinduism, while an apt comparision, miss's the point that the hebrew god, pure monothiestic, is changed with the christian version, which shows qualified monotheism.

Pre-Christian Jewish monotheism is also qualified, and qualified quite a bit. Monotheism, taken neat (so to speak) is merely the belief that there is one and only one divine being. This is compatible with God being the universe or with God being utterly distinct from the universe. So "monotheism" taken neat isn't really all that informative. Judaism believes in "creational" monotheism. That is, they hold that God is utterly distinct from his creation. They are not to be identified in any way. Secondly, Judaism's version of monotheism is "covenantal" monotheism. That is, they hold that God is related to the world in interesting ways, and in particular reveals himself to his creatures. Even more specifically, he has made a covenant with Israel to be her God and they his people. Thirdly, Judaism's version of monotheism is apocalyptic. That is, one of the ways in which God interacts with the world is through judgment against evil, and one day there will be a final judgment. Thus, Judaism holds to a creational covenantal apocalyptic monotheism.

Given this radical departure from "simple" monotheism, the Christian innovation seems rather tame! Indeed, we can see it as just a further detail on the apocalyptic element.
 
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