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Prove There is God
- Thread starter Ziroc
- Start date
Theres a difference. If challenged, you CAN if you want to goto these scientists with the powerful microscopes and ask them to show you the evidence which supoorts their claims.Purity said:
You CAN travel round the world if you are really in any doubt.. and you can of course study the nights sky and the position of the sun throughout the year.
These things can be tested.
In this case I dont take you at your word when you said you talked to God. I think youre convincing yourself that you did. I demand proof.
I disagree with the idea that you dont have to prove God exists. The bible clearly says in Thessalonians prove all things. Maybe Im nuts but wouldnt you say the existence of God is an all thing that needs proving?
I do agree however that I cannot, nor do I need to prove the existence of God to anyone else just myself, which I have personally done.
The only reason I cannot prove God to someone else is because God want let me, if He did He would be a liar because He has said He is no respecter of persons and even if He was I dont think I would merit any special favor and I really wouldnt want any. It would just go straight to my head if God let me prove that He exists to other people.
Man what a religion I could start with proof of God. The first church of proof, Id be bigger than Jesus.
I do agree however that I cannot, nor do I need to prove the existence of God to anyone else just myself, which I have personally done.
The only reason I cannot prove God to someone else is because God want let me, if He did He would be a liar because He has said He is no respecter of persons and even if He was I dont think I would merit any special favor and I really wouldnt want any. It would just go straight to my head if God let me prove that He exists to other people.
Man what a religion I could start with proof of God. The first church of proof, Id be bigger than Jesus.
Malus 12:9
Temporarily Deactive.
Purity said:You can come and watch me talk to GOD if you'd like I'm not running though
But, if I do not believe in God, who would I see you talking to?
Sorry?Purity said:
Malus 12:9
Temporarily Deactive.
Yes, but how do you go about proving that to a non believer, one who doesn't believe in the Bible's words?early2it said:
With thoughts like that, I can't see your religion taking off. Unless you weren't speaking literally.early2it said:
I was speaking literally. I'm not good with humor but I try.Renaldo said:Yes, but how do you go about proving that to a non believer, one who doesn't believe in the Bible's words?
The point I wanted to make by mentioning Thessalonians was that it is the believer not the non believer who needs to prove the existence of God. Why does a non believer need faith?
If I could cut off a piece of God and put it in a non believers hand for proof I would be stealing from God literally and figuratively. It is Gods job to do the proving not mine. I make the attempt to prove God and God gives me the evidence I need which is the real meaning the word faith in my view.
I disagree with the people who say you have to believe to see God I think you have to recognize your lack of faith. God gives people faith when they ask for it and faith is the torch that lights the world.
My opinion is that only the individual interprets the scriptures. In other words you can tell me what you think thats fine but ultimately only I can prove something sufficiently for myself to have faith in it or not.
In my view faith is not a blind thing. God reveals himself whenever someone decides to look carefully enough. God being all knowing knows the heart of man and He decides who he will or will not show Himself too I do not make the decisions for God. If a person makes the attempt at least to prove God exists God will give that person the evidence he needs or the faith he needs to see. Why doesnt God just show himself to everyone, I think is a much more interesting question?
Have you ever heard of proving your rifle? It is not wise to use a weapon you have never fired. After you have shot a gun a few times then you can have faith in it. God is the same way. God reveals himself to the individual this is how faith is built one proof at a time.
Jesus told the man with the devil possessed son to have faith the man replied help me mine unbelief. The man recognized he lacked faith and asked for more faith not more proof. The man was given more proof of God when he asked for more faith. Through the ministry of Jesus the boy was healed that should have given the man a little more faith. Of course the boy was the big winner he didnt have to keep getting burned in the fire.
If you consider the manifestations then you can see I mean God proves Himself literally in the physical sense. Science accepts the physical manifestations of Gravity as evidence that gravity exists yet I have never seen a test tube full of gravity.
Why does the scripture say that signs miracles and wonders follow them that believe if God is not in the business of manifesting himself physically? To the unbeliever this is nothing, but to the believer it is proof that God is with him.
With thoughts like that, I can't see your religion taking off. Unless you weren't speaking literally.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
I can't prove that God exists any more than an atheist can prove that He doesn't exist. I don't have that kind of power. The only one who does is God himself. And I don't believe that He is even interested in proving himself to people who have already made up their minds that He is nothing more than a figment of their imaginations. I do believe, though, that He will prove His existence to anyone who is sincerely open to the possibility. I don't like arguing with atheists over this issue since it is one that can't possibly be resolved. I just respect their right to disbelieve and ask them to offer me the same courtesy.
I would think that all weak Atheists and Agnostics are more open to the possibility than you think. Most of us accept science, and the principles of science are to explore and investigate knowledge in order to find truth. This means challenging your own beliefs on a constant basis. Constant doubt.Katzpur said:
It seems to me that in order to believe in God you have to be unwilling to question your own beliefs. This is an impression I get from a lot of Christians. They have 'faith' and thats enough for them. Theyll ignore evidence and logic and pure reason.
(Some dont I might add.)
Im quite happy for a person to believe in God. That I have no problem with at a personal level. However, it is this unwillingness to properly explore the alternatives that truly disturbs me.
Malus 12:9
Temporarily Deactive.
Actually, you have a point there. I would explain, but I do not wish to stray from the topic. Have some frubal for your good statement.Sunstone said:
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
You know, I've often thought that most of us are agnostics to a degree. Those who say there is a God believe there is, but must do so on faith as they don't have any way to prove Him -- at least not to anyone but themselves. Atheists say there is no God, but again, they are not able to prove their "belief" any more than Christians are. So for all of us, it's a matter of degree of belief and which direction that belief leans. If my understanding of the word "agnostic" is correct, an agnostic believes that it is impossible to know for sure whether God exists or not. Isn't that where most of us really fit in? I'd have to say that my own belief is that there is a 99.9999999% chance that He does exist. So, I'm a believing agnostic. You may believe that there is a .0000001% He exists. If that is the case, I'd say you are a non-believing agnostic.Tawn said:
I like the idea of challenging your beliefs, though. I was raised in a religious home, but I was taught to question everything from the time I was very little. In my home, questioning didn't destroy faith. It was how faith grew.
Maybe some do. I hope I'm not one of them.
Kathryn
Yep. There are essentially four positions you can take (maybe 5 but im not so sure).Katzpur said:
Gnostic Atheist (Strong Atheism),
Agnostic Atheist (Weak Atheism)
Agnostic Theist (What you are)
Gnostic Theist (Bloody Fundie
)Pure Agnosticism is not really possible. You either believe in God or you dont. If you dont - youre an Atheist. I suppose if someone is truly at a 50/50 split about whether there is a God or not.. then they could claim this position... but personally id still define that as Atheism.. you are not fairly sure there is a God.
I agree that the Gnostic positions are absurd.. how can someone claim to know anything with certainty?
Then I admire you.
stemann
Time Bandit
It is not certain whether free will does or doesn't exist.
This means you should always assume it does exist, because then if it turns out it does you were right to assume that it did, but if it turns out it doesn't, then it doesn't matter what you assume because you didn't have free will and so it wasn't your choice.
This means you should always assume it does exist, because then if it turns out it does you were right to assume that it did, but if it turns out it doesn't, then it doesn't matter what you assume because you didn't have free will and so it wasn't your choice.
stemann
Time Bandit
This assumes that life can survive on methane. Maybe life can only survive in certain conditions and is very, very rare. This does not mean it has great value though. If we were the only life in the universe it isn't great evidence for God, just that life is one of those things that only exists in very rare conditions.
What if there was a certain element only avaible in one tiny section of the universe? Does this prove that God created the universe just for that element? Religion puts conscious sentient life above all else. I don't, perhaps because I am a scientist in the first place.
dorsk188
One-Eyed in Blindsville
There are four places where life could have potentially developed in our solar system alone: Earth, Mars (before cooling), Europa, and one of Saturn's moons (Titan, I think). We can't explore Mars' past, and have yet to really look at Europa and Titan.stemann said:
I have a feeling that wherever we look in the universe that life can exist, it will exist. Life may be one of the cheapest things in the universe (in terms of rarity). But this doesn't prove or disprove God anyway.
What you are getting at, though, is a very valid point. Even if life is absent from Europa and Titan and EVERY single nook and cranny in the universe, that's just a fact. What you do with it is your own business, but not a fact itself.
Incidentally, there are approximately 4.562 x 10 to the power of 47,993 nooks in the known universe. And just under 30 crannies... (Mostly in Ohio.)