Baptism...

Here I go with yet another question...I don't believe I have yet to ask this...and I was just thinking on it. A while back I was on CA and this other Baptist guy sent me a big long pm about how you shouldn't become Catholic because they don't believe in full-immersion baptism. He went on to say how important it was to Christianity. Of course, I had already heard his point of view countless times, but I don't know what yours is. Why is full-immersion baptism not performed in the RC church? What is the difference between the two, exactly? I have always wondered that.

Thanks,
Karen

johnnys4life said:

Why is full-immersion baptism not performed in the RC church?

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I don't know the answer to that. Perhaps one of the catholics here does.

johnnys4life said:

What is the difference between the two, exactly?

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The difference lies in the definition of the word baptism. It is a transliteration of a greek word that just means "to immerse, submerge, and emerge". In other words, to completely surround something in something else. The fact that the word is used to describe this act says to the protestant, "Hey, maybe we should do it this way, too". But I do not know what the catholics think about all that...

johnnys4life said:

A while back I was on CA and this other Baptist guy sent me a big long pm about how you shouldn't become Catholic because they don't believe in full-immersion baptism.

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Don't believe? Quite false.

Why is full-immersion baptism not performed in the RC church? What is the difference between the two, exactly? I have always wondered that.

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Again, for the record, many Roman Catholic Churches baptize by full immersion..... most don't.... I just wanted to be clear that it does happen in the RCC.

Ok... as far as your question, let's check CA!
Although the New Testament contains no explicit instructions on how physically to administer the water of baptism, Fundamentalists argue that the Greek word baptizo found in the New Testament means "to immerse." They also maintain that only immersion reflects the symbolic significance of being "buried" and "raised" with Christ (see Romans 6:3-4).

It is true that baptizo often means immersion. For example, the Greek version of the Old Testament tells us that Naaman, at Elisha’s direction, "went down and dipped himself [the Greek word here is baptizo] seven times in the Jordan" (2 Kgs. 5:14, Septuagint, emphasis added).

But immersion is not the only meaning of baptizo. Sometimes it just means washing up. Thus Luke 11:38 reports that, when Jesus ate at a Pharisee’s house, "[t]he Pharisee was astonished to see that he did not first wash [baptizo] before dinner." They did not practice immersion before dinner, but, according to Mark, the Pharisees "do not eat unless they wash [nipto] their hands, observing the tradition of the elders; and when they come from the market place, they do not eat unless they wash themselves [baptizo]" (Mark 7:3–4a, emphasis added). So baptizo can mean cleansing or ritual washing as well as immersion.

A similar range of meanings can be seen when baptizo is used metaphorically. Sometimes a figurative "baptism" is a sort of "immersion"; but not always. For example, speaking of his future suffering and death, Jesus said, "I have a baptism [baptisma] to be baptized [baptizo] with; and how I am constrained until it is accomplished!" (Luke 12:50) This might suggest that Christ would be "immersed" in suffering. On the other hand, consider the case of being "baptized with the Holy Spirit."

Full article: http://www.catholic.com/library/Baptism_Immersion_Only.asp

Hope that helps.... but I would like to point out how shallow a thinking "immersion only" is in my opinion.... like God is powerless to save us if we somehow don't perform this task the "right way".

Heck, baptize me with puddle water.... God is great and I think the Holy Spirit can "work it's magic" if I'm underwater or not.... kinda silly when you think about it. IMO.

Scott

I was baptised using immersion. You see, some Churches have very unique baptismal bowls that are beautiful peices of artwork, some which have been used for centuries. That bowl has a lot of significance and may alter the way each peice can be used. As churches grew, they also have trouble keeping enough pews/seats readily available to serve people a seat, so smaller bowls that modified the ways some places baptised only became more mainstream as a solution to take a smaller area and maximize it. As Scott said, its not going to effect the way God accepts you and the critisism that any denomination gets for the way they baptised is ...well... ignorant. Its the result of people picking at small details to lose sight of the big picture.

Okay I see how baptize doesn't have to mean full immersion, but if it does symbolizing burial and resurrection, then why is it not the preferred method anyway? Or, how does the other method symbolize burial with Christ, or does it?


Also, do Catholics believe in being baptized for the dead?

I found this verse....but I can't think of any church that does this anymore...
1 Corinthians 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

johnnys4life said:

Okay I see how baptize doesn't have to mean full immersion, but if it does symbolizing burial and resurrection, then why is it not the preferred method anyway? Or, how does the other method symbolize burial with Christ, or does it?

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In this case, function over form rules the day.... there are some pretty ridgid rules about Baptism (what kind of water, who/when can perform it, etc)... but in general, I would say that we believe it is the action of Baptism that imparts grace... it is not the water that does this, but the Holy Spirit.... so it really does not matter to me how much or how little water is used.

Also, do Catholics believe in being baptized for the dead?

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for the dead? Not sure what that means, but I don't believe that we baptize the dead any more, if that's what you were asking.

SOGFPP said:

In this case, function over form rules the day.... there are some pretty ridgid rules about Baptism (what kind of water, who/when can perform it, etc)... but in general, I would say that we believe it is the action of Baptism that imparts grace... it is not the water that does this, but the Holy Spirit.... so it really does not matter to me how much or how little water is used.
for the dead? Not sure what that means, but I don't believe that we baptize the dead any more, if that's what you were asking.

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Okay. I guess that's just the poet in me, symbolism has always made sense to me.


Well the Bible talks about being baptised for the dead, and I thought certainly some religion must still do it. But apparently not this one, oh well. The LDS church I went to did...or at least it USED to. I don't know about anymore. They'd have people be baptised symbolically for people in thier families that had died. That's why thier so into geneology. But if that's too far off topic feel free to delete, I don't care.