Bible and Quran

Bible was ofcourse a word of God which was revealed on Jesus (PBUH). With the passage of time the Bible's original form has been distorted completely and it is no more the same Bible which was revealed to Jesus (PBUH).
The text of Quran is not changed even for a single dot since it was revealed about 1500 years ago on Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). God promises in Quran Himself that He would safeguard and preserve the word of God. This is what has happened since then and would happen until the end of the world.
This itself is a proof that Bible was specific for the period before the coming of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Quran then had to finalize the teachings of God which would be best for the rest of times and people.

ssss said:

Bible was ofcourse a word of God which was revealed on Jesus (PBUH). With the passage of time the Bible's original form has been distorted completely and it is no more the same Bible which was revealed to Jesus (PBUH).
The text of Quran is not changed even for a single dot since it was revealed about 1500 years ago on Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). God promises in Quran Himself that He would safeguard and preserve the word of God. This is what has happened since then and would happen until the end of the world.
This itself is a proof that Bible was specific for the period before the coming of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Quran then had to finalize the teachings of God which would be best for the rest of times and people.

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Every time I see these statements, I think how disrespectful it is towards those who believe the bible is the word of God and marvel that the people saying it either (a) don't see it as disrespectful or (b) don't care.

If I were inclined to show the same disrespect towards your beliefs (and I'm making assumptions based on what you're saying here), then should I start a thread on the false prophet Mohammed who was nothing but a charlatan and corrupted the bible for his own ends?

As Montalban has said in other threads, please list these corruptions so we can debate them one by one.

Melody said:

Every time I see these statements, I think how disrespectful it is towards those who believe the bible is the word of God and marvel that the people saying it either (a) don't see it as disrespectful or (b) don't care.

If I were inclined to show the same disrespect towards your beliefs (and I'm making assumptions based on what you're saying here), then should I start a thread on the false prophet Mohammed who was nothing but a charlatan and corrupted the bible for his own ends?

As Montalban has said in other threads, please list these corruptions so we can debate them one by one.

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How well said.

ssss said:

Bible was ofcourse a word of God which was revealed on Jesus (PBUH). With the passage of time the Bible's original form has been distorted completely and it is no more the same Bible which was revealed to Jesus (PBUH).
The text of Quran is not changed even for a single dot since it was revealed about 1500 years ago on Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). God promises in Quran Himself that He would safeguard and preserve the word of God. This is what has happened since then and would happen until the end of the world.
This itself is a proof that Bible was specific for the period before the coming of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Quran then had to finalize the teachings of God which would be best for the rest of times and people.

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Finalize?

Can you give chapter and verse on that? I'm reading the Qur'an right now. I'm about 5/6 of the way through it and I can only think of one passage so far that suggests Muhammad is the end of the line. This is opposed to everything else which we are reminded of every five pages.

Also, why would God send down 'rain' from 'heaven' and then decide that enough has already fallen and no more is needed?

How can you possibly say that ssss? What proof do you have that the Quran isn't just as twisted as the bible? If it was passed down by word of mouth for so long, how is there any proof it wasn't tweeked a bit? And how is there any proof that the Quran OR the Bible are truly the word of god? Where is this proof?! Christians always say the bible was divinely inspired and muslims say that the quran is the direct word of god, but how does anyone know this?! what real proof is there of this other than it saying in itself that it is?!!!!

SSSS

Can I ask as well to hear these distortions? I have to say that virtually every Muslim of your opinion seems to say exactly the same thing is exactly the same way. ‘the Bible is Corrupt, FACT, the Qur’an is completely uncorrupted…etc’. It sounds like Muslims worldwide are all being feed the same one-sided viewpoint and none of them dare question it. (I have heard that questioning the Qur’an or Muhammad’s authority in some Islamic run countries can lead to severe punishment.) I recommend this website http://www.debate.org.uk/topics/history/bib-qur/contents.htm

See what you think.

Zyzyx

Zxzyx said:

I have to say that virtually every Muslim of your opinion seems to say exactly the same thing is exactly the same way.

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... highlighted for those looking for an example of tautology.

ssss said:

Bible was ofcourse a word of God which was revealed on Jesus (PBUH). With the passage of time the Bible's original form has been distorted completely and it is no more the same Bible which was revealed to Jesus (PBUH).

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The first is a purely faith-based statement. Believe it if you wish. The second is simply a joke. Having never seen an original, any statement about the Bible being completely distorted is mindless propaganda.

Dayv said:

What proof do you have that the Quran isn't just as twisted as the bible? If it was passed down by word of mouth for so long, how is there any proof it wasn't tweeked a bit?

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Therefore I challenge you to find contents in the Quran that contradicts with each other! Quran was memorized by THOUSANDS and maybe MILLIONS of Muslim all over the world. They memorize it to do such meditations such as doing prayers 5 times a day, passing verses of Quran through dakwah, thus any change a bit of the contents of Quran will SOON be NOTICED by Muslims. Proof that Quran hasn't been changed since the first time it came is that Quran exists in ONE version in this world. Bible versions are a lot, I suppose almost 10 versions?

Dayv said:

And how is there any proof that the Quran OR the Bible are truly the word of god? Where is this proof?! Christians always say the bible was divinely inspired and muslims say that the quran is the direct word of god, but how does anyone know this?! what real proof is there of this other than it saying in itself that it is?!!!!

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Quran was brought down 14 CENTURIES ago by Allah. And Quran consists of scientific facts inside of it. And these facts NEVER goes against modern facts that were discovered in the 20th century. Infact, these facts were already covered by Quran FOURTEEN CENTURIES ago! And it it actually CONFIRMS the discoveries!

Firdaus Mardhatillah said:

And these facts NEVER goes against modern facts that were discovered in the 20th century.

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"Now let man but think from what he is created! He is created from a drop emitted
Proceeding from between the backbone|loin and the ribs:"​

​

Men were clearly carrying their testicals higher back then. As for women, they are, after all, just vessels.

I have yet to have seen any real proof that the Quran actually has scientific fact in it. I'd like a real example. Religious fanatics seem to exagerate things a bit, so I wonder if maybe some of what you have said, Firdus, isn't a little blown out of purportion.

I think what is needed are facts of this science and miracle, and facts of the corruption of the bible. Show verses from the Quran and Bible to prove your points. I am a muslim and firmly believe in Islam, but I understand why they are asking for proof. So if anyone is gonna come on here and talk about how the Quran is perfect and the miracles within the Quran, please make reference to the Quran to prove your point, and if you're gonna say the Bible is corrupt, again please make reference to the Bible to prove your point.

With that out of the way I have some quotes from the bible which I would like to discuss. First of all, I dont feel the Bible is corrupt, I feel the Bible is not followed correctly by many Christians. There are contradictions within the Bible, and if it were truly a word God, these contradictions would not be there. Now i'm not blaming Jesus(PBUH) or God for this, I'm just saying it's so many stories from many different people, and those people contradicted Jesus(PBUH) words, not Jesus(PBUH).

My main issue has to do with Jesus(PBUH) and God. Is Jesus (PBUH) God? I'm sure you all know as a Muslim I really dont think so. Here are some quotes from the bible that I found to be rather interesting.

Matthew 23: 8-10

But be not ye called Rabbi; for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are bretheren
And call NO man your Father upon the earth: for ONE is your Father, which is in Heaven.
Neither be ye called masters: for one is your master, EVEN Christ.

Does this not state the oneness of God?

Matthew 23:39
For I say unto you. Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

This sounds very familliar to what prophets do. They teach in the name of God, and they are brought to us by God.

Matthew 22:43-45
He saith unto them. How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?

Does this not apply to Jesus aswell?

Matthew 12:29
And Jesus answered him, The first of all commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Very interesting.

If Jesus(PBUH) is God, and if Jesus is the son of God, it follows that Jesus is the son of himself. Wo! Wo! that's confusing, that's impossible, that's incomprehensible.

Peace and Blessings
Ezzedean Fadel.

Dayv said:

I have yet to have seen any real proof that the Quran actually has scientific fact in it. I'd like a real example. Religious fanatics seem to exagerate things a bit, so I wonder if maybe some of what you have said, Firdus, isn't a little blown out of purportion.

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First off, watch your language there Dayv, I am not a fanatic.

Second, here is a link of scientific facts the Quran contains:

http://www.harunyahya.com/A_tr4.php

Ezzedean, yes God is One, I'm surprised you didn't cite Deut for that, the Shema (where Matt 12:29 comes from).
You'd have to understand the Trinity for that. I can see why you'd find it incomprehensible. Most nonChristians have a very imperfect understanding of it.

There's this one passage. I can't think of where it is in the Qur'an though. It pretty much states that the Earth revolves around the Sun. For centuries people laughed at Muslims for that passage. And then one day....

Deut. 32.8 said:

"Now let man but think from what he is created! He is created from a drop emitted
Proceeding from between the backbone|loin and the ribs:" S. 86:5-7​

Men were clearly carrying their testicals higher back then. As for women, they are, after all, just vessels.

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You must not join the verses completely together. That's is why it is seperated:

5. So let man see from what he is created!

This verse commands us to pay attention to what we can observe before this verse was brought down, which is the occurence in verses 6 and 7.

6. He is created from a water gushing forth,

This is the first occurence of the creation of a human by which we can observe.

7. Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs.

This verse is the finishing occurence of the creation of human, by which then human comes out from between the back bone and the ribs. I think I don't have to tell you what is between the backbone and the ribs do I? It is the uterus.

SpiritElf said:

Ezzedean, yes God is One, I'm surprised you didn't cite Deut for that, the Shema (where Matt 12:29 comes from).
You'd have to understand the Trinity for that. I can see why you'd find it incomprehensible. Most nonChristians have a very imperfect understanding of it.

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Most "christians" have an imperfect understanding of it as well.

Melody said:

Most "christians" have an imperfect understanding of it as well.

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Oh... you beat me to it! Actually, God being utterly beyond all creation I'd say that all Christians have an imperfect understanding of the Trinity (and everything else to do with the nature of God). You're right, though, that very many Christians don't even have the basic concept straight. In fact, I've met very few, particularly in the west, who hold to the same idea of the Trinity as taught by the early Church Fathers and Councils.

James

Melody and Iacob Persul,
I won't disagree with you there!!!!!!!!!!!

Firdus, I read about half of the site you linked, but couldn't read anymore of it, seriously? You think those verses say what the site says they do? Many of those verses can easily be related to early beliefs of the time. One example: the Quran suggests using the stars for navigation because they knew they were fixed and consistant. Ancient cultures knew this almost since the begin of civilization, it doesn't point to any higher knowledge. I encourage everyone alse to check this site out. It's sounds like the same stuff nostrdamus' followers try to push with the stuff he came up with.