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The 70 Week/Years of Daniel 9:24-27 (Part One)

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Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
lovemore said:
It was attempting to justify this prophecy that made me recognize that history simple didn't agree with the bible.

Let God be true and every man a liar.

The 70 weeks starts when the commandment goes forth (Dan 9:25), which is at the beginning of Daniel's prayer (Dan 9:23), which is in the first year of Darius (Dan 9:1). Therefore understand the matter.

The prophecy begins 450 years before Christ at the end of the 70 years of captivity, which makes the destruction of the temple 500 years before Christ. This also puts Christ's birth on a jubilee year.

The Darius the Mede, and Cyrus the Persian, rule at the same time.

History says that the Medes and Persians were not co-rulers. This flatly contradicts Daniel.

History was adjusted to make the prophecy point to a fictional character called Julius Caesar instead of Christ, by adding about 90 years into history. This is nothing other than the thinking to change times and laws (Dan 7:25).

According to Wikipedia, there is a discrepency of 165 years between the historical and the Jewish dates for when the temple was destroyed.
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Lovemore, the prophecy is Jewish, and I have given you the Jewish interpretation to this Jewish Prophecy. Any other interpretation which is not Jewish is prone to fail at the onset.

Christian speculations about Jewish things are not evidences to the Truth. The only thing to be sure is that the Jewish exile in Babylon lasted for 70 years, and that's the basis for the prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27 to develop around.
 
B

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
Ben Sinai said:
If anyone is interested in a real and true understanding of the 70 weeks of brother Daniel then one could spend a little time and read these two PDF versions.

http://moreiyah.com/modules.php?name=Newsletter_Web&op=nlb_pdf&artid=131

http://moreiyah.com/modules.php?name=Newsletter_Web&op=nlb_pdf&artid=132http://moreiyah.com/modules.php?name=Newsletter_Web&op=nlb_pdf&artid=132http://moreiyah.com/modules.php?name=Newsletter_Web&op=nlb_pdf&artid=132
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The Logic is that one cannot interpret the prophecies of a religion with the tools of a different religion. Preconceived notions of a foreign religion constitute no authority to assert themselves on the tenets of another.
 
L

lovemore

New Member
Ben Masada said:
Lovemore, the prophecy is Jewish, and I have given you the Jewish interpretation to this Jewish Prophecy. Any other interpretation which is not Jewish is prone to fail at the onset.

Christian speculations about Jewish things are not evidences to the Truth. The only thing to be sure is that the Jewish exile in Babylon lasted for 70 years, and that's the basis for the prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27 to develop around.
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I am a Jew, whose circumcision is in the heart. As it is written "And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live."

The exile for sure lasted 70 years. However Daniel was taken away in the first siege in the fourth year of Jehoiakim. The final destruction was in the 11th year of Zedekiah which was about 20 years later.

"The word that came to Jeremiah concerning all the people of Judah in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, that was the first year of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon;..." Jeremiah 25:1
"And this whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment; and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years." Jeremiah 25:11

The exile lasts 70 years, not the desolations. The desolations last 50 years, a jubilee period, according to the prophecy in Leviticus

"But if ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments;..." Leviticus 26:13
"Then shall the land enjoy her sabbaths, as long as it lieth desolate, and ye be in your enemies' land; even then shall the land rest, and enjoy her sabbaths." Leviticus 26:34

The land enjoying her sabbaths refers to the seven sabbaths of Leviticus 25, which make up 49 years plus an extra jubilee year.

"And them that had escaped from the sword carried he away to Babylon; where they were servants to him and his sons until the reign of the kingdom of Persia: To fulfil the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfil threescore and ten years." 2 Chronicles 36:20-21

These are Jewish scriptures saying that the 20 years are at the beginning of the 70 years.

Now what happens next? The commandment goes out:

"Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the LORD spoken by the mouth of Jeremiah might be accomplished, the LORD stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying, Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, All the kingdoms of the earth hath the LORD God of heaven given me; and he hath charged me to build him an house in Jerusalem, which is in Judah. Who is there among you of all his people? The LORD his God be with him, and let him go up." 2 Chronicles 36:22-23

This is the commandment from Daniel 9:23-27.

Jeremiah's 70 year prophecy is made the same year it began.
Daniel's 70 week prophecy is made the same year it began.

This then makes sense of the first 7 weeks of the 70 week prophecy. It is another jubilee period, during which the temple and the wall are rebuilt.

Oh how beautiful is the Word of God!

As a Jew, I don't trust history, which comes from men and not from God.

As it is written in the Psalms, It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.
 
Ben Sinai

Ben Sinai

Member
Ben Masada said:
The Logic is that one cannot interpret the prophecies of a religion with the tools of a different religion. Preconceived notions of a foreign religion constitute no authority to assert themselves on the tenets of another.
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This is why I first stated "If anyone is interested". I see you are not but you continue to spew your dribble just the same.

Here we go again with the logic of man and one that puts that above the simplistic word of Yah. The "way" I follow is not some man made conjured up religion. You offend me in stating such. You offend Yah in the same. You continue in those delusional thoughts of logic you have YBM and I will stick with truth.
 
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Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
Ben Sinai said:
This is why I first stated "If anyone is interested". I see you are not but you continue to spew your dribble just the same.

Here we go again with the logic of man and one that puts that above the simplistic word of Yah. The "way" I follow is not some man made conjured up religion. You offend me in stating such. You offend Yah in the same. You continue in those delusional thoughts of logic you have YBM and I will stick with truth.
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Your god must be so small and weak. Othewise, he could not be offended by man. Yah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob can never be offended by man. There is nothing whatsoever we can do with the power to offend God. You disappoint me with every post you reply. Too much anthropomorphism.
 
B

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
lovemore said:
I am a Jew, whose circumcision is in the heart. As it is written "And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live."
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With all my respects, I have heard that cop-out before, that circumcision is of the heart and not of the flesh. That's not circumcision of the flesh that makes of a man a Jew, neither is circumcision of the heart that makes a Jew out of a man. Yet, both are claimed by non-Jews. So, my friend, it takes much more than just circumcision to identify a Jew, no matter where it is made.
 
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lovemore

New Member
Ben Masada said:
With all my respects, I have heard that cop-out before, that circumcision is of the heart and not of the flesh. That's not circumcision of the flesh that makes of a man a Jew, neither is circumcision of the heart that makes a Jew out of a man. Yet, both are claimed by non-Jews. So, my friend, it takes much more than just circumcision to identify a Jew, no matter where it is made.
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I am not concerned whether you count me Jew, but whether God makes me an Israelite.

Isaiah 14:1 For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.

And why say you that the law is not for strangers? What does Moses say?

Exodus 22:21 Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

Leviticus 24:22 Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the LORD your God.

Numbers 15:16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

Deuteronomy 10:19 Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.
 
Ben Sinai

Ben Sinai

Member
Ben Masada said:
Your god must be so small and weak. Othewise, he could not be offended by man. Yah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob can never be offended by man. There is nothing whatsoever we can do with the power to offend God. You disappoint me with every post you reply. Too much anthropomorphism.
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Yah Elohim of all of His creation is offended by all that disobey Him. He was so offended by man that………

Gen 6:6 And it repented Yah that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

If Elohim created man in His image and likeness then one would have to believe that we do have certain aspects of our creator. If Yah can be “grieved at His heart” and “repented” then these are His traits that we also have. To say that Yah does not have human qualities is the same as saying that He can’t. To say that Yah can’t do anything is ignorant. If He has certain traits and these traits just happen to be a part of how He made us then they are not human traits but that of Yah. Your so closed minded that you make these blind statements which portray a meaning like man created Yah. Whatever man has, Yah created. Not the other way around. Man offends the Torah thus he offends Yah. It’s His word and His instructions. If we do not hear and obey then we do offend Him.

You just like to disagree with everyone just for the sake of disagreeing. Its so funny. And YBM, is “anthropomorphism” the only big word you know? I mean, man, you use that word so much I’m surprised no one has asked you for royalty payments. I just about would bet that that word you have used in just about every single thread that you have ever posted in or at least the ones after that you had learned what the word meant. I do see where you love to repeat yourself over and over again. I wonder if you just have a copy and paste sheet of all your answers to everyone. Hmmmmmmm Oh, btw, get use to being disappointed. Life is full of disappointments. Man just happens to be Yah’s disappointment as a whole and your not helping with it.
 
B

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
lovemore said:
I am not concerned whether you count me Jew, but whether God makes me an Israelite.

Sorry pal, but nostalgia does not work here. If you want to join Israel, the invitation is in Isaiah 56:1-8. Don't trust this cop-out that God will make an Israelite out of you. You have got to go through certain rules.

Isaiah 14:1 For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.

And He did, mind you. Read Psalm 78:67-69. What we have today is the House of Jacob, called by the new name of Israel from the stock of Judah. Read Isaiah 48:1.

And why say you that the law is not for strangers? What does Moses say?

Moses didn't have to say anything. The Sinaitic Covenant was a private Covenant with the People of Israel. Opposite to the Noahite Covenant, which was with all Mankind. That's the Law for strangers: The Seven Noahite Laws. Just observe them and you will keep yourself out of trouble.

Exodus 22:21 Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

Strangers are welcome to join. As I said above, the invitation is in Isaiah 56:1-8. But we are not vexing them. They don't have to if they don't want. In fact, they don't need to. They are safe and sound where they are, as long as Israel is a People before the Lord. Read Jeremiah 31:35-37.

Leviticus 24:22 Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the LORD your God.

That's about Civil Law, which should be one for all: Stranger and Citizen.
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B

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
Ben Sinai said:
Yah Elohim of all of His creation is offended by all that disobey Him. He was so offended by man that.

As I can see, you are beyond repair. BTW, why don't you change this pseudonym you have adopted? It would be less embarrassing. I don't feel comfortable reading superstitions under such a Jewish name.

Gen 6:6 And it repented Yah that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Yah is not a man to repent. That's the sacred writer making God's his own displeasure of man's corruption. Aren't you able to work on allegories, or metaphors, or analogies, or similes, whatever you find easier to understand?

If Elohim created man in His image and likeness then one would have to believe that we do have certain aspects of our creator.

See what I mean? How could God create man in His image if He does not have an image to create anything after? God is incorporeal. Elohim created man in the image of His attributes. Read my thread on "Personification of Attributes" and enjoy what I mean by metaphorical language. You are still on the type level of things. If you give me your hand I might be able to pull you up to the Archetype level of Reality.

If Yah can be “grieved at His heart” and “repented” then these are His traits that we also have.

If yah could be grieved at His heart, He would not be God. At least, not my God. Perhaps yours, since the Olympian gods of the Greek Pantheon had the same potential to be grieved and happy.

To say that Yah does not have human qualities is the same as saying that He can’t. To say that Yah can’t do anything is ignorant. If He has certain traits and these traits just happen to be a part of how He made us then they are not human traits but that of Yah. Your so closed minded that you make these blind statements which portray a meaning like man created Yah. Whatever man has, Yah created. Not the other way around. Man offends the Torah thus he offends Yah. It’s His word and His instructions. If we do not hear and obey then we do offend Him.

Listen... man, have you ever heard about Moses Maimonides? He is the one, whom is said that from Moses to Moses never rose another like Moses. His opus prima is called "Guide for the Perplexed." You are of all people in this forum the best candidate to read that book. Why don't you? If you are not beyond repair, I am sure you will come back to this forum with a different view about Yah. I have come to the conclusion that you do not know Him. No wonder Jesus, speaking for the Jews, told the Samaritan woman, who was speaking for the Gentiles: "You worship what you do not understand, while we understand what we worship. (John 4:24)
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Ben Sinai

Ben Sinai

Member
Ben Masada said:
As I can see, you are beyond repair. BTW, why don't you change this pseudonym you have adopted? It would be less embarrassing. I don't feel comfortable reading superstitions under such a Jewish name.
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There you go again trying to fix what is not broken. Hey didn’t the people at Masada kill themselves? Kinda makes your name mean more of “son of the dead and murderers”. Kinda fits with your persona. That being said I believe your name fits you quite well. My name was not of my own choosing. It was given to me by my family. Yet you continue to offend them with every word that slithers from your mouth.
　
Ben Masada said:
Yah is not a man to repent. That's the sacred writer making God's his own displeasure of man's corruption. Aren't you able to work on allegories, or metaphors, or analogies, or similes, whatever you find easier to understand?
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LOL. You just contradicted yourself. That’s so dang funny. You’re a trip YBM or rather SOD. Some might think that it is short for soddish. Hey it works. LOL
　
Ben Masada said:
See what I mean? How could God create man in His image if He does not have an image to create anything after? God is incorporeal. Elohim created man in the image of His attributes. Read my thread on "Personification of Attributes" and enjoy what I mean by metaphorical language. You are still on the type level of things. If you give me your hand I might be able to pull you up to the Archetype level of Reality.
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LOL. What a joke. Your so full of yourself.
　
I understand full well what the words “Tselem” and “Demuth” mean and stand for within this verse. I need no hand from you. You rather need a crane to pull you back from the deep dark crevices of that twist delusional way of thinking you have concocted.
　
Ben Masada said:
If yah could be grieved at His heart, He would not be God. At least, not my God. Perhaps yours, since the Olympian gods of the Greek Pantheon had the same potential to be grieved and happy.
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Oh I have already concluded that you do not know Yah and I assure you that as you are now that Yah will not know you either.
　
Ben Masada said:
Listen... man, have you ever heard about Moses Maimonides? He is the one, whom is said that from Moses to Moses never rose another like Moses. His opus prima is called "Guide for the Perplexed." You are of all people in this forum the best candidate to read that book. Why don't you? If you are not beyond repair, I am sure you will come back to this forum with a different view about Yah. I have come to the conclusion that you do not know Him. No wonder Jesus, speaking for the Jews, told the Samaritan woman, who was speaking for the Gentiles: "You worship what you do not understand, while we understand what we worship. (John 4:24)
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Yep. I’ve heard of that old Spaniard reprobate. I read a little of his garbage a while back and decided that he was no better than the pagans of Greece and Rome.
 
B

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
Ben Sinai said:
.
　

　
Yep. I’ve heard of that old Spaniard reprobate. I read a little of his garbage a while back and decided that he was no better than the pagans of Greece and Rome.
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At least he does not spread around that God made a child in a woman. Who is more of a Hellenistic pagan, he or you?
 
P

ProphecyKid

Member
I'll try to be very brief here. The starting point of this prophecy is the time when the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem was given. That was given my King Artaxerxes. He gave 3 commands but the one that actually saw the rebuilding starting was given in 457 BC. According to the prophecy, 7 weeks = 49 days = 49 prophetic years from that point, Jerusalem was supposed to be rebuilt and rightfully so in 408 BC, Jeruslam was rebuilt. 62 weeks from that point or 69 weeks from 457BC is supposed to see the messiah on the scene. 69 weeks = 483 days = 483 years. 483 - 457 = 26AD. I year must be added because from there is no 0AD. So it lands on 27AD which was the year that Jesus began his ministry.

In 3 1/2 years time from that he is supposed to be cut off and rightly so in AD31 Jesus was crucified. The prophecy yet extended 3 1/2 years later and that time was when Steven was stonned. This is significant because Steven was killed because of his message to the jewish people to accept Jesus. The whole picture in the prophecy was the Jesus was supposed to do all the things listed for his people of Israel to make things right again and to cleanse them. All Israel had to do was to accept Jesus at the messiah. Steven was given the mission to preach that message. There was a reason Jesus told him disciples to preach the gospel only to the jews. That was their appointed time.

At the stonning of Steven another famous character came into the mix and that was Paul. Paul was the apostle to the gentiles. And Paul told the jews that because they deem themselved unworthy of eternal life he turns to the gentiles. The Jews at that point had rejected Christ and no longer were God's chosen people to spread the message. Paul repeatedly from that point stressed that there is no difference between the jew and the greek. The Jews did not do what they were appointed to do because they rejected his son. The prophecy even goes on to predict the destruction of Jerusalem in 64AD which happened as a result of their neglection of him.
 
B

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
ProphecyKid said:
I'll try to be very brief here. The starting point of this prophecy is the time when the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem was given. That was given my King Artaxerxes. He gave 3 commands but the one that actually saw the rebuilding starting was given in 457 BC. According to the prophecy, 7 weeks = 49 days = 49 prophetic years from that point, Jerusalem was supposed to be rebuilt and rightfully so in 408 BC, Jeruslam was rebuilt. 62 weeks from that point or 69 weeks from 457BC is supposed to see the messiah on the scene. 69 weeks = 483 days = 483 years. 483 - 457 = 26AD. I year must be added because from there is no 0AD. So it lands on 27AD which was the year that Jesus began his ministry.

In 3 1/2 years time from that he is supposed to be cut off and rightly so in AD31 Jesus was crucified. The prophecy yet extended 3 1/2 years later and that time was when Steven was stonned. This is significant because Steven was killed because of his message to the jewish people to accept Jesus. The whole picture in the prophecy was the Jesus was supposed to do all the things listed for his people of Israel to make things right again and to cleanse them. All Israel had to do was to accept Jesus at the messiah. Steven was given the mission to preach that message. There was a reason Jesus told him disciples to preach the gospel only to the jews. That was their appointed time.

At the stonning of Steven another famous character came into the mix and that was Paul. Paul was the apostle to the gentiles. And Paul told the jews that because they deem themselved unworthy of eternal life he turns to the gentiles. The Jews at that point had rejected Christ and no longer were God's chosen people to spread the message. Paul repeatedly from that point stressed that there is no difference between the jew and the greek. The Jews did not do what they were appointed to do because they rejected his son. The prophecy even goes on to predict the destruction of Jerusalem in 64AD which happened as a result of their neglection of him.
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Two points I want to bring to your attention: The first is that what you present above about the prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27 is a Christian interpretation of a Jewish prophecy. Therefore, prone to fail from the onset, based on the fact that one cannot use the tools of a religion to interpret a prophecy of another. The true interepretation of a Jewish prophecy must be Jewish and I have posted the real Jewish interepretation of this Jewish prophecy in two parts. Enjoy it.

The second point is that you say that Paul was the apostle of the Gentiles. And that when the Jews rejected Christ, he decided to go to the Gentiles. Would you be so kind as to quote for me where in your NT Paul went to the Gentiles? I would appreciate. Because all I have from him is that since his first station in Damascus and until his last one in Rome, he never left the Jews in peace. I can figure about 98 percent of his missionary activities among the Jews and 2 percent among the Gentiles. This hardly qualifies one as an apostle of the Gentiles.
 
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J

jesusfreak8

New Member
This is total stupidity. Jesus was cut off in the middle of the week ending the sacrificing in Gods eyes. It was to happen during the Roman empire (dan 2) and happen in 490 consecutive years. This isnt a prophecy for today. The Prince in Daniel is always Jesus. Perverting the scriptures to teach an 19th century false doctrine is blasphemy. Its about ushuring in the new covenant by the Messiah. Wake up people.
 
E

Enlighten

Well-Known Member
jesusfreak8 said:
This is total stupidity. Jesus was cut off in the middle of the week ending the sacrificing in Gods eyes. It was to happen during the Roman empire (dan 2) and happen in 490 consecutive years. This isnt a prophecy for today. The Prince in Daniel is always Jesus. Perverting the scriptures to teach an 19th century false doctrine is blasphemy. Its about ushuring in the new covenant by the Messiah. Wake up people.
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:troll:
 
J

jesusfreak8

New Member
Ben Masada said:
What did I say above? Bring a Jew with a different interpretation from mine and I will reconsider. I understand your point about a person who is able to prove his point to be considered right. If he or she can prove his or her point without preconceived notion, it will be worthy an analysis. There is no arrogance in my assesment. This is just a matter of being sure of oneself.
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Thats actually stupid. Its interpretted easily for all. Your either right or wrong. Most jews clearly miss the new testament which makes your logic of no value. They rejected him and only a remnant believed even in his day.
 
Poisonshady313

Poisonshady313

Well-Known Member
jesusfreak8 said:
This is total stupidity. Jesus was cut off in the middle of the week ending the sacrificing in Gods eyes. It was to happen during the Roman empire (dan 2) and happen in 490 consecutive years. This isnt a prophecy for today. The Prince in Daniel is always Jesus. Perverting the scriptures to teach an 19th century false doctrine is blasphemy. Its about ushuring in the new covenant by the Messiah. Wake up people.
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This is total stupidity. Jesus has nothing to do with the book of Daniel. Perverting the scriptures to teach false Christian doctrine is blasphemy. It's about the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem. Wake up people.
 
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