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Frank Schaeffer - I (and other "Pro-Life" leaders) Contributed to Tiller's Death

Reverend Rick

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
You Liberals do this all the time. Take my words out of context, you may have a point. Did you see where I called the "good doctors" killer a hypocrite and hoped he burned in hell? How could you give me credit for inciting someone to be a POS like that?

Instead, you focus on the doctor and what you "understand" his practice was about. These lives that where on the line where diagnosed many time as depression. Anyone can be depressed and that pretty much is abortion on demand.

Now, please show me where I said Tillers killing was a good thing?
 
The Voice of Reason

The Voice of Reason

Doctor of Thinkology
linwood said:
Is this the kind of inflammatory rhetoric you guys are talking about TVOR?
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Reverend Rick said:
I'm more interested in hearing from VOR right now. I believe I have gave him plenty to work with.
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To be honest, I find the murder of Tiller to be quite a downer. To think that a person that intelligent and that spent enough of his youth in college to become a doctor, could be killed at the hands of a loser like Roeder, is just extremely discouraging.

As for Rick's opinion about Tiller, I'm not surprised. Since Rick doesn't have as large a platform as Randall Terry or Bill O'Reilly, his rhetoric doesn't have anywhere near the impact that they do. I look at Rick's reaction as one of a follower, not a leader.

I truly don't have a problem with Rick not valuing the life of Tiller. As I've said on this forum (quite often) I don't necessarily place a higher value on human life than any other species. That is based on the lower end of the spectrum - like Roeder. If he is convicted, I eagerly await the execution of Roeder. He has proven himself to be unworthy of life among society (or anywhere else, for that matter). In this instance, I fully understand that Rick doesn't value the life of Tiller, but I completely disagree with him.
 
Reverend Rick

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
Thanks VOR, at least we agree Tillers killer should be executed. I have never condoned murder. I would never try to incite murder. I cannot help how I feel about the man. Perhaps I am just too honest how I feel about issues. I am not afraid to change my mind on an issue, and if you really examined my beliefs, they are more center than right.

I cannot help but think the dig you gave me about not being a leader was inciteful in it's own right. You see, a lessor mind would try to prove you wrong and then do something out of character to prove themselves. I guess there are many ways of getting people to do things, do you believe people who participate in hate speech are trying to incite others to do their bidding or are just making their point?
 
waacman

waacman

Restoration of everything
In this article, from what I get, the atmosphere of the 80's was pretty harsh on pro-choicers from pro-Lifers? Could someone explain to me, or perhaps direct me to these speeches, videos, rallies of all of this hate mongering that Frank speaks of. I was young in the 80's and feel that the atmosphere from my current peers debates over this issue nowhere near resembles the animosity so many of you speak of. Fill me in please. I would rather you give me articles on both sides of the issue at a time, it will give me hopefully a more balanced approach. Thanks!
 
linwood

linwood

Well-Known Member
Reverend Rick said:
Now, please show me where I said Tillers killing was a good thing?
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I`ve taken nothing out of context.

You never said Tillers "killing" was a good thing.

You very heavily implied his "death" was a good thing.

Defending one position against the other is nothing more than splitting hairs.

Another skill you have aplenty.
 
linwood

linwood

Well-Known Member
Reverend Rick said:
Instead, you focus on the doctor and what you "understand" his practice was about. These lives that where on the line where diagnosed many time as depression. Anyone can be depressed and that pretty much is abortion on demand.
Click to expand...

By the way Rick, could you please supply some evidence that late term abortions are lawful due to a diagnosis of depression and that Tiller was doing them because of of such a diagnosis?

I think you`ve been reading to many anti-abortion sites.
 
waacman

waacman

Restoration of everything
If anything over Tiller's death, it was a sad sigh of relief (at least for me), glad that late term abortions weren't being performed, but not that terrible way of ending it.
 
The Voice of Reason

The Voice of Reason

Doctor of Thinkology
Reverend Rick said:
... do you believe people who participate in hate speech are trying to incite others to do their bidding or are just making their point?
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I think the massive egos of Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, O'Reilly, Savage, and most of the hate talk radio pundits drives them to seek attention, adoration, and validation.

When they talk, they truly begin to feed off of their own vitriol, and I think they take great pride in trying to whip their listeners into a froth. If a listener actually follows up on their rhetoric, I think some (but probably not all) get a thrill out of having manipulated a person with a weak mind into doing something that they would not normally do.

As for "making their point", I think that some of the talking heads of hate radio don't really believe quite a bit of what they say. They do it because playing to the stupidity and fear of their audience generates a ton of money for them - and the power that they feel is a bonus.

Just my .02 worth.
 
waacman

waacman

Restoration of everything
Thats a classic stance though, of those in power(right-wing talkheads) are abusing it, especially when one doesn't agree with them. I could probably say the same thing about Liberal talk heads, but not believe that they are intentionally misleading, just viewing things from their bent. Thats niave but I'd like to think that. In the case they are both lying, there are lots of other news places I can get my info, hopefully more balanced then these two fist-swinging giants.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
linwood said:
Religion is such a bane upon humanity.
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You're lamenting the wrong thing, my friend.

It is the lack of humanism that is to blame.

The devaluing of human life through bad thinking is bane of our existence, and while some of these monsters use religion as a means to this end, it is but one minor cog in that machine. Stalinist Russia alone killed more people than a religiously motivated campaign ever did (and hopefully ever will).
 
The Voice of Reason

The Voice of Reason

Doctor of Thinkology
waacman said:
Thats a classic stance though, of those in power(right-wing talkheads) are abusing it, especially when one doesn't agree with them. I could probably say the same thing about Liberal talk heads, but not believe that they are intentionally misleading, just viewing things from their bent. Thats niave but I'd like to think that. In the case they are both lying, there are lots of other news places I can get my info, hopefully more balanced then these two fist-swinging giants.
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I agree that an extremist on the far left is every bit as bad as an extremist on the far right - BUT - there are two huge differences:
1) There are far more talking heads on the right that espouse violence than there are on the left. I would say that the extremists on the left are much smaller in number than their counterparts on the right.
2) The wingnuts on the right are far more likely to follow up with violent (and deadly) actions than those on the extreme left.

As an example, the extreme left produces PETA and Greenpeace - two organizations that rarely (if ever) kill people. The rightwing wingnuts have a solid track record of shootings, lynchings, etc. Call it the "Solve a Problem with a Bullet" club.
 
Mister Emu

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
As an example, the extreme left produces PETA and Greenpeace - two organizations that rarely (if ever) kill people.
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I would suggest that is a tad skewed... the extreme left also produces groups like the ALF, which has tried to kill people, they just tend to fail...
 
The Voice of Reason

The Voice of Reason

Doctor of Thinkology
Mister Emu said:
I would suggest that is a tad skewed... the extreme left also produces groups like the ALF, which has tried to kill people, they just tend to fail...
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You had the advantage of me. I had to Google ALF - and I assumed that you weren't talking about the old TV show starring a puppet.

I readily concede that the extreme left also produces wackos that see killing someone as a solution to the problems of mankinds treatement of animals. That said, I think you would have to admit that the wingnuts on the right side of the aisle are better equipped to carry out such actions, but they also have a greater tendency to act on those impulses.
 
The Voice of Reason

The Voice of Reason

Doctor of Thinkology
Just for kicks and giggles, I visited one of the ALF sites.

If anyone thinks these guys aren't on the edge, read the following paragraph, telling their supporters how to communicate securely and effectively:

How Do A.L.F. Cells Communicate Securely?

If you are a member of an active A.L.F. cell, send us any clippings, or your own report, with date, time, place, and a few details about the action. Send your reports on plain paper, using block capital letters, or a public typewriter that many people have access to. Wear gloves at all times so your fingerprints are not on the paper, envelope, or stamp. Do not give your address, and don't lick the stamp or envelope; wet it with a sponge. Remember you should expect that all of our mail and any other support groups' mail is opened and read by the authorities.


Strange days, indeed.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
The Voice of Reason said:
Just for kicks and giggles, I visited one of the ALF sites.

If anyone thinks these guys aren't on the edge, read the following paragraph, telling their supporters how to communicate securely and effectively:

How Do A.L.F. Cells Communicate Securely?

If you are a member of an active A.L.F. cell, send us any clippings, or your own report, with date, time, place, and a few details about the action. Send your reports on plain paper, using block capital letters, or a public typewriter that many people have access to. Wear gloves at all times so your fingerprints are not on the paper, envelope, or stamp. Do not give your address, and don't lick the stamp or envelope; wet it with a sponge. Remember you should expect that all of our mail and any other support groups' mail is opened and read by the authorities.


Strange days, indeed.
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They forgot not to mention the use of envelopes, sponges, or even newspaper text that is vintage or rare. FBI can track that, too.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
The Voice of Reason said:
Well, I'm sure that after a couple of convictions based on such forensic evidence, they'll update their website for the benefit of their members ...

Smart bunch, those ALF'ers.
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It would be far better if they just killed themselves. :shrug:
 
Mister Emu

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
You had the advantage of me. I had to Google ALF - and I assumed that you weren't talking about the old TV show starring a puppet.
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Though that Alf was dastardly :p ;) His sarcastic facade was a mask for his megalomania ;)

I think you would have to admit that the wingnuts on the right side of the aisle are better equipped to carry out such actions
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This I would admit...

but they also have a greater tendency to act on those impulses.
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This I'm not so sure about... I would not think that political leanings would correlate with willingness to carry out crazy, violent, impulses...
 
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