• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Can women be prophetesses in Abrahamic religions?

Can a woman be prophet (or prophetess)?


  • Total voters
    17

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
I don't see what could possibly exempt women from also being deluded into thinking they have some sort of insight into the future.

In this instance "prophet" doesn't mean "predicting the future" but instead means "being a 'mouthpiece' for god". Indeed from what I understand of my studies the latter is actually the first and most accurate definition of a prophet even though it is less familiar.

My bad. Correction: I don't see what could possibly exempt women from also being deluded into thinking that they're a mouthpiece for god.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
I though prophet has to do with "prophecy"?

And prophecy is a form of divination. Whether that prophecy comes from direct or indirect communication (or revelation) from a higher being, this interpretation of divination is mainly for the religion, and really can't be proven either way.
 

Sahar

Well-Known Member
While I don't think strength is necessarily a condition of Prophethood there are other issues related to being a woman which would prevent them from becoming a Prophet. A Prophet would have to lead the prayers of his followers yet this is forbidden for women in Islam. A woman can get pregnant and would have to "take time off" which is not really something a Prophet can do.
This is true for the Salah as we know it from the Prophet Muhammad pbuh. I believe the Salah issue has nothing to do with this.
Prophets were ridiculed, beaten and went to wars, had to travel, were kicked out of their homes...and had to argue with elite of the people who were men...so why would a woman go through all this and there were available men to carry out these tiring tasks?
 
Last edited:

gnostic

The Lost One
mister emu said:
Gah, I didn't even look at the surrounding text, you seem to be correct...

I have only read this part of the bible only once, over 20 years ago. I only recall about Noadiah, only because you've included her in your list. I have completely forgotten about her, until post #2.

There are many books of the bible that I have only read in my late teen. My main interest in the bible has always being the Genesis right up to David's death. The Genesis I have read over and over again, because I have always being interested in creation and founding myth. I have read NT at least several times, especially the gospels and the revelation.
 
Last edited:

AbuKhalid

Active Member
Who considers Mariam as a prophet, is because Angel Jibril was sent to her.

A minority of the Ulamma considered her a Prophet. It was claimed by someone on this thread that because she was visited by Jibril (AS) she may be a Prophet. I don't agree as being visited by an angel is not the same as being a Prophet.
 

fullyveiled muslimah

Evil incarnate!
I would have to say I don't think there were any female ambiya. The reason is because we are coming at this thing with our thinking of today, but we know full well the heavily patriarchal societies portrayed in the Bible and Quran. How would a woman have been received at these times in history? I imagine not very well and women have historically been not very well thought of as worthy humans let alone being able to garner the respect and loyalty required of a prophet. The men had a hard enough time going through it, so what of a woman? So the way I see it is in Allah's wisdom he did not send a woman into the fray to be completely ignored. He sent men, because it would have taken a man to speak to and interact with the other men of those times to bring about the preferred result.

Let us not forget the purpose of a prophet is to convey a message. A woman would have been restricted in her movements in certain societies. How would she have gained audience with certain individuals? With the way women are treated in certain places even today, can you imagine to response she would have gotten for raising her voice to men, commanding and demanding things of them? I have to say there were no women among the ambiyah for these reasons.
 

Fatihah

Well-Known Member
In another thread that I started, Ishmael is not a prophet, it was to display that Ishmael is not Judaeo-Christian sources, namely the Genesis in the Tanakh or Bible, though the Islamic Qur'an listed him as one of the prophets. Ishmael could be a patriarch for the Ishmaelites, but there seemed to be no biblical evidences to say that he was a prophet.

Then I gave example that Hagar had fulfilled the requirement of prophethood more so than her son, because twice a divine agent (either god or angel) spoke to her (Genesis 16 & 21:9-21), and revealed that her son (Ishmael) would be ancestor of nation, separate to that of Isaac's line.

I got into debate with Proud Muslim of whether a woman can be a prophet (prophetess) or not.

Her examples is that none one woman was listed in the Qur'an to be prophetess, and that women were not strong enough to be prophets (eg. men are stronger than women). She also say that since women were not listed in the Qur'an that they were prohibited from becoming prophets, even though such explicit prohibition (which she later admitted) are absence in the Qur'an.

I, on the other hand, argue that physical strength has nothing to do with a person being a prophet, and that both Hagar and Sarah (Genesis 18:9-15) were prophetesses, and listed

My last example to Proud Muslim is that Miriam, sister of Moses, was explicitly linked to being a prophetess (Exodus 15:20).

Anyway, this new topic is not about Ishmael, but whether Jews, Christians or Muslims (or any other Abrahamic religions) believe that women can be prophetesses or not:

  • If you believe women you can explain why, and give examples of who these women were.
  • If you don't, then you can also explain why women can't become prophetesses?
  • Do strength matters?
Provide sources for your explanations and examples.

Response:To aswer the question directly for islam, yes a woman can be a prophet. However, a woman would not be chosen to be a prophet by Allah. Allah has made men different from women and in his creation, he has made man by nature physically stronger and less sensitive than women. So men are the preferred choice.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
But what of the names given in the Tanakh and Bible: Miriam, Deborah, Huldah and Anna (for the NT). Each of these women was called prophetess.

At least the last 3 were married, but neither works say they had children.

The Qur'an may have ignored these women, but there are many male prophets, which the Qur'an failed to mention, but is found in the non-Muslim scriptures. Just because they were not named, doesn't mean that women can't be prophetesses.

I think Eve could be considered to be a prophetess, since God talked directly to her and Adam.

And you have answer my question AbuKhalid. If angel revealing God's message doesn't make Mary mother of Jesus as prophetess, then Gabriel visiting Muhammad doesn't make him a prophet either.

Isn't that true?

I think your argument is deeply flaw. And you have admitted yourself that the Qur'an doesn't restrict women from being female prophets. It is just your opinion and loose interpretation of your own scripture.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
To fullyveiled muslimah, AbuKhalid and others.

fullyveiled muslimah said:
How would a woman have been received at these times in history? I imagine not very well and women have historically been not very well thought of as worthy humans let alone being able to garner the respect and loyalty required of a prophet.

You have completely ignored Deborah. I have already quoted the Judges about her.

Judges 4:4 said:
Deborah, wife of Lappidoth, was a prophetess, she led Israel at that time.
Judges 4:4 said:
And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time.
Judges 4:4 said:
And Debbora, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, —she judged Israel at that time.

All the Muslims keep saying that women were different, and yet they ignored textual evidences when presented.

Here, Deborah is clearly a prophetess, Judge and wife. She was apparently judge for 40 years (5:31). You can't be a Judge and stayed at home. She is juggling 3 different roles, so don't say that only a man can be both husband and prophet, and not a woman, because clearly they can different roles.

Does the Qur'an write of anything Deborah?

It would seem that the Qur'an clearly left her out.

Why are Muslims ignoring my quotes from non-Muslim scriptures and the list of female prophets, given in post #17?

Are you all blind, deaf and dumb?
 

Angelfire

Member
Thank you, Mister Emu.

I am far more familiar with the Genesis and Exodus, then I am with the rest of the bible. I know of Deborah, but wasn't too sure if she fit the bill.

Thanks, you have been most helpful with the list of names. :)

I supposed Eve could be prophetess too, even though she was not listed explicitly as one.

Perhaps, even Mary mother of Jesus too.

Do you think that women being weaker than men disqualified them of being prophets?

That's not my argument, but Proud Muslim. She seemed to think that strength has lot to do with becoming a prophet. I would of thought wisdom is better suit as requirement of becoming a prophet, and not strength.





If women are weaker than men, then why do they live on average 10 years longer




Peace.
 

fullyveiled muslimah

Evil incarnate!
To fullyveiled muslimah, AbuKhalid and others.



You have completely ignored Deborah. I have already quoted the Judges about her.





All the Muslims keep saying that women were different, and yet they ignored textual evidences when presented.

Here, Deborah is clearly a prophetess, Judge and wife. She was apparently judge for 40 years (5:31). You can't be a Judge and stayed at home. She is juggling 3 different roles, so don't say that only a man can be both husband and prophet, and not a woman, because clearly they can different roles.

Does the Qur'an write of anything Deborah?

It would seem that the Qur'an clearly left her out.

Why are Muslims ignoring my quotes from non-Muslim scriptures and the list of female prophets, given in post #17?

Are you all blind, deaf and dumb?

First of all I'm not obligated to address your posts at all much less within the contexts you present to me. Furthermore, where do you get off calling me along with other people on this forum blind deaf and dumb? You've got a lot of nerve and I don't come here to be insulted by the likes of you and anyone else for that matter.

Secondly, I posted my thoughts independently of anyone elses'. I am not really interested in what the Bible or Tanakh has to say about this. A general question was asked to which I answered. If you don't like my answer then that's just tough dude, but don't ever single me out in a post and then personally insult me.
 

Fatihah

Well-Known Member
First of all I'm not obligated to address your posts at all much less within the contexts you present to me. Furthermore, where do you get off calling me along with other people on this forum blind deaf and dumb? You've got a lot of nerve and I don't come here to be insulted by the likes of you and anyone else for that matter.

Secondly, I posted my thoughts independently of anyone elses'. I am not really interested in what the Bible or Tanakh has to say about this. A general question was asked to which I answered. If you don't like my answer then that's just tough dude, but don't ever single me out in a post and then personally insult me.

Response: Yes, dear sister. Respect is due whether one agrees with a person or not. Many non-muslims here will try to insult the muslims in an effort to break them and shake their faith. I personally had a thread started in my name recently in an attempt to defame me so I can relate. But of course it doesn't faze me and don't let it faze you. Stay humble.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
The Muslims professed they believe in all prophets in both Judaic and Christian prophets, but the Qur'an doesn't list every single prophet.

David's prophet, Nathan is not mentioned at all in the Qur'an. He was responsible for giving the message from God about Bathsheba and her husband. If David was a prophet, wouldn't god have rebuked David directly, instead of using Nathan as his intermediary?

And there's Samuel, who was both Judge and prophet, and yet the Qur'an also ignored him completely.

And even famous prophets in your list that are found in the Genesis, were never called prophets, except Abraham. There are many minor prophets, which some books were named after them, but the Qur'an failed to mention any of these except Jonah. Malachi was considered to be the last of the Hebrew prophet for the Jews, and he is missing too.

The Qur'an clearly doesn't tell the whole story.

The female prophets may not be as numerous as the men, but they are mentioned in the Hebrew Scriptures.

That the Muslims refusal to re-examine their position about women being prophetesses, showed that the Muslims are not capable of re-examining or questioning their belief, when there other sources or materials (evidences) come to light.

This is probably the reason why Muslims are no longer capable of new scientific discoveries, because they preferred to stick to outdated dogma.

And that's the reason why I think Muslims of today have become blind, deaf and dumb.

If you are offended, then I am sorry.

I am not Jewish or Christian, and yet I can examine and weigh the available sources, even if I don't believe in them. That's scholarship and keeping an open mind.

I have done heavy personal researches in ancient and medieval mythology, through reading different number of sources/materials, even though I don't believe what I have written. I have at least half dozen versions of the Jason and Argonauts, each one different to the standard version that most people know (from Apollinus Rhodius), because I take the time to examine each version.

And that's scholarship and keeping an open mind.

The Muslims here have refused to re-examine their positions, when they are given new information.

This thread is more than just the opening post. Examine the information I have given, criticise or refute it if you like, but at least do the courtesy of re-examing your own information by comparing with others.

This is debate forum, and it is for people to debate just one side of the fence, but hopefully to learn and understand the other side's view.

For me, I can learn something new, even if the I don't believe in the new information, because belief and knowledge are 2 different things. Sometimes belief and knowledge can coincide, but not necessarily always true.
 
Last edited:

fullyveiled muslimah

Evil incarnate!
Gnostic, I'd just like to take this time out to say that you have no idea what you're talking about. It has been revealed to us through our Nabi (saw) that there are in fact 46 parts of nubuwwat (prophethood). Being visited by angels, or achieving a certain level of piety does not make on a prophet. That is a station appointed by Allah, not one that can be reached on the basis of individual merit. The fact that there were many pious women of that past is wonderful, but it doesn't make them Rasuls or Nabi's.

If you take the time to use your common sense, you would see the wisdom in actually not sending a female for that particular kind of rigorous work. Think back 10,000 years or so or even 3,000 years. Do you really think a female could have held such a station with the gross forms of oppression that women lived under as the norm? If nothing else she would have been dismissed out of hand just of the fact that she was a she and not a he.

You think you know so much, but you fail to realize that you cannot redefine what Islam's points of belief are. Like the other thread you opened about Ismail (as) not being a prophet. For one why would you care since you don't believe it yourself. For two, how do you think you can really dictate that Muslims are wrong because through your study you've come to a different conclusion? Really sit back and think about that gnostic. Going back to the subject at hand, the definition of what and who a prophet was and could be varies from religion to religion. I answered the question as per my religion. If you think it's stupid or ill informed then so be it.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
fullyveiled muslimah said:
It has been revealed to us through our Nabi (saw) that there are in fact 46 parts of nubuwwat (prophethood).

Yes, I got this LITTLE information from Proud Muslim from the Ishmael is not a prophet thread:

Proud Muslim said:
Back to the point, don't shift the topic here. The fact is Hagar is not considered prophet in the Judeo-Christian scriptures even though she fits their prophethood criteria, why not discuss this inconsistency in another thread? Signs of prophethood in Islam are 45, not only two which you have mentioned.

Proud Muslim said:
We have hadith that will translate as the following "The correct vision into future is a part of 46 parts of prophethood". Personally i can't help you any further listing the remaining parts but maybe someone with deeper knowledge about this topic will help better.

Just so you know its not 45, but 46 and its not 'signs' but 'parts' whatever the difference is.

Can you show me when in the Qur'an and Hadith talk of the 46 signs.


  • And do you care to elaborate these 46 signs that fit a person to the criteria of being prophethood, because I have already asked what these 46 signs are?

She didn't elaborate, and when asked what 46 signs that Ishmael had, she again didn't elaborate:

Proud Muslim said:
We have hadith that will translate as the following "The correct vision into future is a part of 46 parts of prophethood". Personally i can't help you any further listing the remaining parts but maybe someone with deeper knowledge about this topic will help better.
Proud Muslim said:
I said i don't know myself what are the 46 parts of prophethood, didn't i?

  • Now would you care to tell me what 46 signs that Ishmael had?

The Qur'an has listed Ishmael as being a prophet. Ishmael had no visions and no visitations given in the Torah's and bible's Genesis. So there must be 46 signs from Ishmael, otherwise he isn't a prophet

But since you say that there are 46 signs, then prove it by giving me exactly 46 signs that Ishmael had.

Otherwise the Hadith is nothing but BS, especially if you can't provide me 46 signs of each and every prophet, listed in your Qur'an.

The Qur'an ignored many of the prophets not in your list, but they were prophets in the Tanakh and in the Bible.

The Qur'an completely ignored Samuel and Nathan, very important prophets in the time of King Saul and King David (in books 1 and 2 of Samuel).

Just because they are not listed in the Qur'an doesn't mean they weren't prophets. A number of prophets never wrote a single book or letter, and yet they were mentioned in the non-Islamic scriptures.

  • Do you ignore them, simply because they are not in your precious list?

fullyveiled muslimah said:
If you take the time to use your common sense, you would see the wisdom in actually not sending a female for that particular kind of rigorous work. Think back 10,000 years or so or even 3,000 years. Do you really think a female could have held such a station with the gross forms of oppression that women lived under as the norm? If nothing else she would have been dismissed out of hand just of the fact that she was a she and not a he.

If you take the time to use your common sense yourself, and see that I have already given 4 references that explicitly say that Miriam, Deborah, Huldah and Anna were prophetesses, then who are you to dismiss them out of the hand.

I have backup my points with sources in post #17.

What have you given me?

Nothing than your opinion about women, with no sources to back up your position. You have said 46 signs, and that men are different from women, and yet you have no sources to either women can't be prophetesses or the 46 signs of Ishmael of being a prophet.

So you would have to realise your argument (and Proud Muslim's in the other thread) is weak and flawed.

fullyveiled muslimah said:
You think you know so much, but you fail to realize that you cannot redefine what Islam's points of belief are.

Don't be a fool.

I am not asking you to redefine Islam. Neither Qur'an nor Sunnah clearly prohibit women from being female prophets, so how can Islam be redefined.

Judaism at least accept these women (except Anna) as being prophetesses.

  • Are you dismissing their scriptures, because your Qur'an don't mention any woman, and yet don't prohibit it either?
And you have dismissed my view/reasoning and more importantly, my textual evidences, out of hand, so why should I even considered your opinion as being mean authorities, when you can't even backup your opinion with your sources.

fullyveiled muslimah said:
Like the other thread you opened about Ismail (as) not being a prophet. For one why would you care since you don't believe it yourself.

Knowledge, FVM (fullyveiled muslimah). Knowledge.

Just because I don't have the belief in the Judaeo-Christian or Islamic religion, don't mean I don't care to gain knowledge. I care about knowledge.

I like researching mythology, legend and folklore, with side interests in history, arts, architectures and religions.

Do you know how many people believe your faith and other faiths, and yet they don't even understand what they believe?
 
Last edited:

Sahar

Well-Known Member
If you take the time to use your common sense yourself, and see that I have already given 4 references that explicitly say that Miriam, Deborah, Huldah and Anna were prophetesses, then who you to dismiss them out of the hand.
:areyoucra
I am sure FVM was speaking English!!
 

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
This is true for the Salah as we know it from the Prophet Muhammad pbuh. I believe the Salah issue has nothing to do with this.
Prophets were ridiculed, beaten and went to wars, had to travel, were kicked out of their homes...and had to argue with elite of the people who were men...so why would a woman go through all this and there were available men to carry out these tiring tasks?

Prophetesses such as Deborah didnt go through this kind of humiliation, the Bible describes her as a leader and a judge over Israel.

I would have to say I don't think there were any female ambiya. The reason is because we are coming at this thing with our thinking of today, but we know full well the heavily patriarchal societies portrayed in the Bible and Quran. How would a woman have been received at these times in history? I imagine not very well and women have historically been not very well thought of as worthy humans let alone being able to garner the respect and loyalty required of a prophet. The men had a hard enough time going through it, so what of a woman? So the way I see it is in Allah's wisdom he did not send a woman into the fray to be completely ignored. He sent men, because it would have taken a man to speak to and interact with the other men of those times to bring about the preferred result.

Let us not forget the purpose of a prophet is to convey a message. A woman would have been restricted in her movements in certain societies. How would she have gained audience with certain individuals? With the way women are treated in certain places even today, can you imagine to response she would have gotten for raising her voice to men, commanding and demanding things of them? I have to say there were no women among the ambiyah for these reasons.

Both of these posts seem weird to me. ancient women leaders are not unheard of, and I can think of a few who have achieved great status of leadership:
Queen Hatshepsuth of Egypt, Boudica queen of the lceni tribe in what is today east Britain who led a revolt against the Romans, Joan of Arc who led the French army against the English, Kahena who lead the Berbers in battle against the Invading Muslims, the Biblical Queen of Sheba, Cleopatra- Egypt's last Pharoah.
 

Gharib

I want Khilafah back
to gnostic

do you want the islamic point of view on this issue or do you just want to prove us wrong by saying that the jews believe women can be "chosen ones" and since our religion is similar but does not mentione women, we have a mistake in the quran, is that what you are trying to do?

if you do want the islamic perspective, then your questions have been answered, but if you just want to continue for the sake of the thread so that it doesn't die out then i don't know what to say.
 
Top