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Understanding the bible
- Thread starter Lycan
- Start date
Runt
Well-Known Member
Perhaps God DIDN'T want to give humanity all the answers... perhaps he wanted to give them the seeds of truth, and then leave them alone to grow and learn on their own. It reminds me of how I'd ask my father a question as a child, and instead of giving me the answer, he'd say some cryptic comment that would start me thinking... or he'd suggest a book that I should read that addressed that very topic. That way, I had to WORK for the answers, and when I finally found them the knowledge was far more in depth than it would have been if he'd just told me.
Runt
Well-Known Member
Do not people already have different understandings of truth? Some people believe the Bible and also believe in evolution. Others read the Bible and are positive that evolution doesn't exist. If we assume that God did inspire the scriptures (which, ironically I don't believe, but we'll pretend for the sake of "what if?" that he did) then perhaps there is more than one correct way of viewing "Truth", and God wanted to allow people to experience those different ways. Or perhaps he was trying to test people, to see if they could use the reason he gave them to arrive at the truth with only subtle hints--and yes, some outright lies-- that he gave them in the scriptures to guide/obstruct them. Or, as I suggested in another forum, perhaps he was just stupid, and made mistakes when "inspiring" the writers of the scriptures. *shrug* There are a lot of possibilities other than the idea that God didn't inspire the scriptures/doesn't exist.
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
You can only understand the scriptures by trying to obey them. It's a need to know thing. The more you obey, the more you understand.
The more you twist the scriptures and their application the further you drift from understanding the truth.
If you can see disciples by the love they have for one another, then those who do not exhibit this love are in dire need of obeying those scriptures. Get the basics down first (love, acceptance, etc) and move on to higher things.
The more you twist the scriptures and their application the further you drift from understanding the truth.
If you can see disciples by the love they have for one another, then those who do not exhibit this love are in dire need of obeying those scriptures. Get the basics down first (love, acceptance, etc) and move on to higher things.
move on to higher things? I do believe the two most important commandments are to Love your Father in heaven and to love your fellow neighbors.
I say that is the highest truth of the Gospel of Christ. No need in getting caught up in the restless complexity of dogma and religion. Keep Christ's Gospel simple as he wished....
I say that is the highest truth of the Gospel of Christ. No need in getting caught up in the restless complexity of dogma and religion. Keep Christ's Gospel simple as he wished....
Pah
Uber all member
Since it takes a great deal of education, it is not innate at all. No infant understands the bible in any language. Language must be learned, vocabulary built, reasoning matured and perhaps many more things before comprehension of the Bible is possible. Therefore, it is not innateLycan said:
The Bible itself is filled with different understandings. Half of it is the Hebrew Tanakh, then we have the New Testament on top of it, which is a whole different set of texts. Sure the Bible is interpreted in different ways. It's also been altered and edited to suite different tastes over the centuries. It's good to have various views on religious texts, so we can give a personal truth to the matter after investigating for ourselves, instead of blindly going with the majority or with some priestly caste. How would we learn anything if there were only way of looking at it? Does that mean all other views are or were wrong?
I for one am glad I can investigate for myself, otherwise I'd be so lost and confused by the majority of Christianity that I'd most certainly leave it alltogether. Galations 6:6 solves the matter for me
I for one am glad I can investigate for myself, otherwise I'd be so lost and confused by the majority of Christianity that I'd most certainly leave it alltogether. Galations 6:6 solves the matter for me
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
Sivanus
Love is both the target of the scriptures as well as the medium. It's impossible to understand love and all of it's ramifications without loving others.
As you learn to love, you begin to understand that many other positive traits (like all of them) are tied to love: faithfullness, kindness, forebearances, patience, truthfulness... you name it, and they are a part of love. But you can't understand how important they really are until you practice them.
Love is both the target of the scriptures as well as the medium. It's impossible to understand love and all of it's ramifications without loving others.
As you learn to love, you begin to understand that many other positive traits (like all of them) are tied to love: faithfullness, kindness, forebearances, patience, truthfulness... you name it, and they are a part of love. But you can't understand how important they really are until you practice them.
Melody
Well-Known Member
Innate to whom? In Luke 8:8, Jesus said, "He that hath ears, let him hear."Lycan said:
When I was an unbeliever and read the Bible, there were so many things I didn't understand. As my faith has grown, so has my understanding. Where once certain bible verses appeared contradictory, now I read them and they are crystal clear. I believe that when an unbeliever reads the Bible, they are not hearing God's word because they're reading it for the wrong reasons and so everything seems "open to interpretation."
Also, just because someone calls themself a christian, priest, pastor or minister, don't make the mistake of thinking they actually are hearing God's Word. The Bible states in several places that many will be misled through their pride and arrogance. They will believe they are hearing and following God's Word but it is their own ego they're listening to. No doubt, some of these people have even started a "religion" with nothing but their ego. These people will corrupt God's Word and use it for their own political agendas.
So, some are probably asking how they know the difference and I can only respond with:
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
Matthew 7:7
The Bible is God's word, but how can you expect to understand it if you don't believe in God or you believe in a "religion" instead of God?
That's the short response.
EnhancedSpirit
High Priestess
The bible is hard to understand. But not near as hard as Shakespeare.
Melody,Melody said:Innate to whom? In Luke 8:8, Jesus said, "He that hath ears, let him hear."
When I was an unbeliever and read the Bible, there were so many things I didn't understand. As my faith has grown, so has my understanding. Where once certain bible verses appeared contradictory, now I read them and they are crystal clear. I believe that when an unbeliever reads the Bible, they are not hearing God's word because they're reading it for the wrong reasons and so everything seems "open to interpretation."
Also, just because someone calls themself a christian, priest, pastor or minister, don't make the mistake of thinking they actually are hearing God's Word. The Bible states in several places that many will be misled through their pride and arrogance. They will believe they are hearing and following God's Word but it is their own ego they're listening to. No doubt, some of these people have even started a "religion" with nothing but their ego. These people will corrupt God's Word and use it for their own political agendas.
So, some are probably asking how they know the difference and I can only respond with:
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
Matthew 7:7
The Bible is God's word, but how can you expect to understand it if you don't believe in God or you believe in a "religion" instead of God?
That's the short response.
Sorry to disagree with you - but that is hog-wash. I believe in God, and I want to understand the bible, but to me it seems so full of 'double ententes' that I, like a lot of people, am confused by it. One example straight out of the top of my head is:-
Matthew 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: Later we have
Matthew 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. Can you explain, how , within two verses, we have an immediate contradiction?
Scott1
Well-Known Member
Tawn, I think it's important to point out that not all faiths expect the Bible to be the "proof text" for belief. The idea of scripture alone (sola scriptura) was unheard of for the first 1500 years of the Christian faith.Tawn said:
The Bible is a product of Christian tradition.... a teaching tradition that needs a "divine interpreter" which those of my faith believe is the Church.
Scott
EnhancedSpirit
High Priestess
This is a good example to use. The bible is easier to understand when you learn to study it in the original language. Alot of the things that don't make sense to us is because it was translated through the opinion of someone who doesn't think exactly the same way you do. But REAL TRUTH is not objective.michel said:Melody,
Sorry to disagree with you - but that is hog-wash. I believe in God, and I want to understand the bible, but to me it seems so full of 'double ententes' that I, like a lot of people, am confused by it. One example straight out of the top of my head is:-
Matthew 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: Later we have
Matthew 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. Can you explain, how , within two verses, we have an immediate contradiction?
The Jews made alot of laws and governed God's people with fear and revrence of the the Lord Almighty. Jesus taught us that alot of these laws were NOT GOD'S LAWS. But misinterpretations of GODS LAWS. The Old Testament taught an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, but in the same teaching God said that it was GOD who would seek your justice. But the Jews (as well as everybody else) ignore that second part of the teaching.
In these verses Jesus is correcting the Jews, saying that we are to turn the other cheek, not seek vengence. We are to forgive or enemy, not have hate for them.
Matthew 5:38 "Here's another old saying that deserves a second look: 'Eye for eye, tooth for tooth.' 39 Is that going to get us anywhere? Here's what I propose: 'Don't hit back at all.' If someone strikes you, stand there and take it. 40 If someone drags you into court and sues for the shirt off your back, giftwrap your best coat and make a present of it. 41 And if someone takes unfair advantage of you, use the occasion to practice the servant life. 42 No more tit-for-tat stuff. Live generously. 43 "You're familiar with the old written law, 'Love your friend,' and its unwritten companion, 'Hate your enemy.' 44 I'm challenging that. I'm telling you to love your enemies. Let them bring out the best in you, not the worst. When someone gives you a hard time, respond with the energies of prayer, 45 for then you are working out of your true selves, your God-created selves. This is what God does. He gives his best - the sun to warm and the rain to nourish - to everyone, regardless: the good and bad, the nice and nasty. 46 If all you do is love the lovable, do you expect a bonus? Anybody can do that.
Melody
Well-Known Member
Michel,michel said:
I haven't asked you to agree with me, nor do I need your agreement. I merely put out my belief based on my studying and praying. You are quite free to disagree with me.
I disagree with you, but I respect your position even if I can't agree with it...but I do not consider your response as "hogwash". To consider your opinion "hogwash" would imply that I think you're too stupid to see that I'm right and agree with me.
Melody
Well-Known Member
Tawn,Tawn said:
Anything is possible with God and I doubt He relies on a book to bring people to Him.
I don't know that I can answer the first part of your question. I do believe that prayer and study (and not just the bible btw) can answer that question, but I think that is something each person has to grapple with on their own. I do believe God speaks to "those who have ears".
Ultimately, we each are responsible for our own soul so, while I may teach someone about my faith if they ask, and answer questions based on what I believe, it is up to them to pray and study and find the truth on their own. They would be foolish to believe something just because I say so since I am only human.
Those who unquestioningly follow a person (i.e. Billy Graham) or a religion, and do not study and pray about the true path, are more likely to fall into a false belief and stop listening for God's truth.
Melody
Well-Known Member
Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth;michel said:Matthew 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: Later we have
Matthew 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. Can you explain, how , within two verses, we have an immediate contradiction?
But I say unto you, that ye resist not evil; but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other one also.
Matthew 5:38-39
I see no contradiction here at all.
Matthew is first stating what has been said before in the OT ("Ye have heard that it hath been said") -- "An eye for an eye..."
He goes on though to say that this is is wrong. That when someone offends us, not only do we NOT reciprocate with "an eye for an eye", but we continue to love them and "turn the other cheek".
Also, just for clarification, "An eye for an eye" was not an excuse to take vengeance as so many people translate it. It was meant to eliminate over harsh penalties. In other words, make the punishment fit the crime...."an eye for an eye".
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
I agree with Melody %100... where is the contradiction?