• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

DC85's contention that...

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
the Bible "implies" that the earth is flat thread.

Mr DC85 has indicated that since I don't believe this that I must NOT read my Bible. I supplied to him Isaiah 40:22 and am patiently waiting for those scriptures that "imply" that the earth is flat.
 

Cr0wley

More Human Than Human
"[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] It is he who is seated over the arch of the earth, and the people in it are as small as locusts; by him the heavens are stretched out like an arch, and made ready like a tent for a living-place.[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]" - Bible in Basic English version

[/font]Eh? I don't see what this verse is supposed to prove...
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Oh yeah... and when you DON'T find those scriptures that imply that the earth is flat, I will still be willing to accept that apology. :D I actually earned it when I provided the scripture that I did, but am willing to wait while you research your contention.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Cr0wley said:
CrOwley,

I've looked up the link you gave; to be frank, I think it is a deliberate but inept attempt to use commonly used phrases to prove a point. Interpreting 'the four corners of the earth' as proof that the writer thought the earth was square is balderdash - I often hear people using that expression in conversation - and they sure don't belive the earth to be flat.;)
 

Cr0wley

More Human Than Human
michel said:
CrOwley,

I've looked up the link you gave; to be frank, I think it is a deliberate but inept attempt to use commonly used phrases to prove a point. Interpreting 'the four corners of the earth' as proof that the writer thought the earth was square is balderdash - I often hear people using that expression in conversation - and they sure don't belive the earth to be flat.;)
Hey, I think the dude who wrote is excessively bias, it's just that NetDoc said "Oh yeah... and when you DON'T find those scriptures that imply that the earth is flat" and I just thought that I could show him that I could find them :D
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Cr0wley said:
Hey, I think the dude who wrote is excessively bias, it's just that NetDoc said "Oh yeah... and when you DON'T find those scriptures that imply that the earth is flat" and I just thought that I could show him that I could find them :D[/QUOTE

I think he was suggesting ones that had some thought or sanity behind the thoughts.:)
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Mr C...

The original contention was that the Bible "implied" that the earth was flat as a pancake "many, many times", and that since I contended that the bible STATED things differently that I must either pick and choose WHAT I believe from the scriptures (an insult) or that simply do not read (ergo "know") the scriptures (which is another condescension).

I have seen this verse rendered as "sphere", "circle" and now as "arch". None of these renditions seem to imply "flat as a pancake", but rather the exact opposite.

BTW, since the Bible has implied that the earth is "flat as a pancake, many, many times" then it should be easy, easy to find at least half a dozen of these implications. That is, IF they exist.
 

CaptainXeroid

Following Christ
Cr0wley said:
... I just thought that I could show him that I could find them
I have to assume that the person who strongly believes that the Bible implies the earth is flat put forth what he felt were the strongest and most convincing scriptures. After reading those, the only thing I have to say is :tsk::biglaugh:

If all he's got is a few passages that refer to ...the ends of the earth... and ...the four corners of the earth..., then IMHO, he simply has no point...just Rubbish.:D
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Mr C,

It's great that you have found such an extremist site to bolster the misconceptions. It proves what I said in the other thread... those that wish to prove that the Bible says the "earth is flat" have another agenda other than the truth.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
NetDoc said:
I supplied to him Isaiah 40:22 and am patiently waiting for those scriptures that "imply" that the earth is flat.
It is He that sitteth above the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in; [emphasis added - Deut.32.8]

- Yisheyah 40:22
Heaven was believed to be surrounded by the primeval sea, both above the Earth. The Earth was believed to be a circular disc. Underneath the Earth was the Netherworld. The planets, Sun, Moon, and stars were considered part of "lil," the atmosphere, that had the additional quality of shining. [emphasis added - Deut.32.8]

- see Sumerian Astronomy
From verses scattered throughout hymns and myths, one can compile a picture of the universe's (anki) creation according to the Sumerians. The primeval sea (abzu) existed before anything else and within that, the heaven (an) and the earth (ki) were formed. The boundary between heaven and earth was a solid (perhaps tin) vault, and the earth was a flat disk. Within the vault lay the gas-like 'lil', or atmosphere, the brighter portions therein formed the stars, planets, sun, and moon. [emphasis added - Deut.32.8]

- see Sumerian Mythology
I would not be so enamoured with 40:22 as prooftext if I were you.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Enamoured, Schnamored. While it's cool to read what the Summerian's believed, the contention was that there are many, many scriptures that imply that the earth is flat. Other than the "four corner" I don't see any such implications. There only 3 passages that I found using "four corners" in conjunction with land or earth.

Ezekial 7:2 "Son of man, this is what the Sovereign LORD says to the land of Israel: The end! The end has come upon the four corners of the land.

Here it is refering to the land of Israel and not the entire earth.

They other two are in Revelations, and the Greek means both corner and quarter. The latter makes more sense to me, but I am totaly lost when it comes to Revelations. I haven't a clue until such time as the Lord guides me into the knowledge it contains.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
NetDoc said:
Enamoured, Schnamored. While it's cool to read what the Summerian's believed, ...
Given Sumerian/Babylonian influence in the region, it's also informative. As for references to the 4 corners of the land/earth, I assume it's idiomatic.
 

DC85

Member
Genesis provides the first(of many) clues that the earth is flat The order of things being created makes no sense from the current perspective but is perfectly logical from a flat-earth point of view.

A flat earth is required for verses like Daniel 4:10-11 to be true

I can get you much more but we will start with this. (This is not the first time I argued this)
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
DC85 said:
A flat earth is required for verses like Daniel 4:10-11 to be true
Oy vey! What the hell does "for verses like Daniel 4:10-11 to be true" mean? The author is talking about a dream.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
One dream is not yet a "many, many". Just waiting for this legion of verses that "imply" the flat as a pancake earth.
 

DC85

Member
Sorry I do not have an NIV on hand right now so I guess I will need to use King James.... I also have the new Catholic Bible and a Quran if you want. (I have almost every version just not with me now)

Job 11:9*The measure thereof is longer than the earth, and broader than the sea.

Job 28:24*For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven

Job 37:3*He directeth it under the whole heaven, and his lightning unto the ends of the earth.

Psalm 19:4*Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,

fingers and eyes getting tired... will post more later (small print in this thing)
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Somehow, I miss the "implication" for flat. The word for end is also the word for boundary.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
NetDoc,
Did you completely ignore this post earlier today?
(#46 http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=153168#post153168)

The rendering of "sphere" [Is. 40.22] is obviously influenced by modern science. The circle is part of the ancient Hebrew cosmology, wheras the teaching of the earth as a sphere is not.

From the Anchor Bible Dictionary:
“On the whole, Israel shared the world view of the ancient Near East. The earth was perceived as a flat expanse, seen either in the image of a disk or circle upon the primeval waters (Isa 40.22; Job 26.10; Prov 8.27; cf. ‘circle of the heavens’. Job 22.14) or of an outstretched garment spanning the void (Job 26.7; 38.13)."

My source is:
http://sol.sci.uop.edu/~jfalward/Th...redUniverse.htm

And the source has extended references to other Bible dictionaries that align with almost any OT commentary that you will find in the library. That the ancient Hebrews had a flat earth cosmology is well established in OT survey.
 
Top