Psychoactive Drugs and Religion

I am sure this is a sensative topic for those who have taken said items, and maybe aren't comfortable discussing that on this forum. However, I will say I have had plenty in my youth over a period of years, and I think it has certainly impacted how I view things.
I recall reading the adventures of a man that wanted to see what it was like to take these peyote buttons like the indians did. So he set of and found a tribe that let him live with them. The claims are that he could be closer to nature and the spirit of animals, and many other things. The claim is said to have been why native americans could be so in harmony with nature and animals.
So I found that very intriguing at the tender age of 15, and of course started doing it.
I found a lot of it to be true. A lot of it I could not confirm. Some things I found true were how animals responded to me.

Anyway over the years after that I did LSD many times, and other psychoactive drugs. I don't do any of them these days, because I feel I have found enlightenment. I believe everything we do or have done is a road to personal enlightment, whether it is books, sex, drugs or whatever. Once we find it, there is no need for assistance in finding it.

Anyone have any thoughts (not on my experience) on drugs and religion? Anything interesting to share?

Most first nations peoples don't use peyote for one.

We have lots of other ways to get in touch with nature and creator.

wa:do

painted wolf said:

Most first nations peoples don't use peyote for one.

We have lots of other ways to get in touch with nature and creator.

wa:do

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Yeah I did not mean to imply a blanket over all Native Americans, but just referenced the series of book I read.
Is it not true that most had a medicine man of some sorts? Thanks!!!

For the record I have a tattoo on my left shoulder of the name Tashina, who was of the sac n fox/meskwaki tribe. she was my best friend many years ago. On my other shoulder I have a picture of Jesus smoking a joint ( I was 16, and wanted to make a statement!) Anyway, I try to have much resepct for Native Americans, I learned a lot from this woman and her family.

Why? What did you hear? That wasn't me, I don't know nuttin bout those shrooms. I was just tipping cows honest.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to find my glass of tea... I know I set it down right over here by Quagmire...

painted wolf said:

Most first nations peoples don't use peyote for one.

We have lots of other ways to get in touch with nature and creator.

wa:do

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Further more Native American history was what led me on my rebellion against american schools and US institutions and what they stood for. Thank you if you are a Native American. I still have journals as a boy around 12, writing what horrible people certain whites (I am white too) were to do what they did.

itwillend said:

Some things I found true were how animals responded to me.

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would you mind elaborating on this?

itwillend said:

I believe everything we do or have done is a road to personal enlightment, whether it is books, sex, drugs or whatever. Once we find it, there is no need for assistance in finding it.

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For some people religion is the next logical step in the chain of drug use. I don’t really think most people find enlightenment, but rather find ways to accept/cope with the nature of life.

Further more Native American history was what led me on my rebellion against american schools and US institutions and what they stood for. Thank you if you are a Native American. I still have journals as a boy around 12, writing what horrible people certain whites (I am white too) were to do what they did.

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See, for me it was knowing that the Christian churches ran those schools that bothered me the most.
I'm a classic American Mutt... but I try to walk in the path of my First Nations ancestors as well as I am able.

wa:do

I haven't had any psychoactive drugs, so my opinion is of course, filtered. Anyway, I think that psychoactive drugs are an expensive way to cheat enlightenment. Sure, one could meditate for years to achieve goals higher than those that can be experienced with just a drop of LSD (which only shows a tiny sliver of the whole picture) but who wants to actually WORK for enlightenment? Not a ton of people. I think that modern Christianity and most religion in the States has lost its sacredness, its mystery, its "power" to help people see beyond themselves. Now it's sort of a social club larking about. That is why I feel many people use drugs like LSD, because it gets them actually started on the mystic path, however, I don't think that it's the best way, or even a good way to discover what is hidden that connects us all.

Shortcuts are never what they promise to be, and no one likes a cheater.

wa:do

Well I beilieve that many ideologies came about from thseo smoking weed or taking some type of psychoactive drug. We find it embedded into culture as far back as we can look.
I am not saying it is good or bad, just that it is a part of a lot of developed thoughts.

itwillend said:

Well I beilieve that many ideologies came about from thseo smoking weed or taking some type of psychoactive drug. We find it embedded into culture as far back as we can look.

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I doubt people have done LSD for all of mankind. Sure many creative thinkers have used Opium, weed, and even mushrooms to extend their talents, but the thing is that they were already talented people. The drugs just made it slightly easier to tune in. But you know what? Schizophrenics/Autistics are also creative, smart, and some of the most amazing people alive on this planet - and I still don't want to be one.

These thinkers could have used meditation or yoga, which has been around as long or longer than psychoactive drugs use. I mean, take your pick, you're still going to get an altered state of mind. The only difference is that one only gives you a tiny insight into enlightenment, and the other can take you beyond enlightenment.

itwillend said:

I am not saying it is good or bad, just that it is a part of a lot of developed thoughts.

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A lot of people who have tried LSD don't see things as "good" and "bad" for they are relative constructed concepts that ruin the oneness by making somethings opposing others.

I get it, man I just don't agree.

The only difference is that one only gives you a tiny insight into enlightenment, and the other can take you beyond enlightenment.

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How do you know? What is your evidence?

Some people do seem to get creative, even brilliant ideas from their experiences with drugs, and others seem to get not-so-great ideas that seem great to the user because the brain is altered. Enlightenment is a vaguely defined word, but I'll say this: while some insights are gained over a long period of time, other profound insights can be triggered by one experience, not necessarily drugs, but that can be a way it happens.

EverChanging said:

How do you know? What is your evidence?

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Academic essays on the subject. The claim is that people who have LSD can experience mystic happenings - but after looking at the results, individual subject usually have one or two of the types of experiences that are claimed to be mystic - but never the full spectrum at once. Not to mention Gurus who have had LSD and have previously had mystic experience (ie enlightenment) call it a "toy."

everchanging said:

Some people do seem to get creative, even brilliant ideas from their experiences with drugs, and others seem to get not-so-great ideas that seem great to the user because the brain is altered. Enlightenment is a vaguely defined word, but I'll say this: while some insights are gained over a long period of time, other profound insights can be triggered by one experience, not necessarily drugs, but that can be a way it happens.

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That's true. Sometimes it takes just a simple drug to push you over that edge, but people who actually work with mystic experience (Buddhists, Hindus... etc) don't see it as a valid practice. My vote is with them.

Academic essays on the subject. The claim is that people who have LSD can experience mystic happenings - but after looking at the results, individual subject usually have one or two of the types of experiences that are claimed to be mystic - but never the full spectrum at once. Not to mention Gurus who have had LSD and have previously had mystic experience (ie enlightenment) call it a "toy."

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Okay, that makes sense.

That's true. Sometimes it takes just a simple drug to push you over that edge, but people who actually work with mystic experience (Buddhists, Hindus... etc) don't see it as a valid practice. My vote is with them.

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I can confirm that to an extent. I have noticed that at one point in my life marijuana stimulated some ideas, but in later experiences, I realized that though the altered state triggered some thoughts in me, they were no longer triggering new insights and my thoughts weren't really any better than in every day life.

I had a mystical experience before I ever experimented with marijuana, and that experience was more vivid and real than anything I ever experienced smoking.

EverChanging said:

I can confirm that to an extent. I have noticed that at one point in my life marijuana stimulated some ideas, but in later experiences, I realized that though the altered state triggered some thoughts in me, they were no longer triggering new insights and my thoughts weren't really any better than in every day life.

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That's something I hear a lot from people who smoke often. Sometimes you can only go so far before the methods stunt your personal spiritual growth.

everchanging said:

I had a mystical experience before I ever experimented with marijuana, and that experience was more vivid and real than anything I ever experienced smoking.

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That's what I mean, though. Mystic experiences are beyond powerful - and usually don't have many negative side effects like some drugs can have. I've been there before, and I wouldnt' trade it for any drug in the world.

I've never been a huge fan of using psychoactives for religious purposes. Then again, I'm a Heathen, and we generally see no need for alternate states of mind. That said, I have done more than my fair share of hallucinogens (and still have far more salvia than I could ever use...maybe my dad might want some). I suppose they could be useful for introspection, but I agree with PW that there are no good shortcuts.

I know my dad used to smoke weed before meditating (and intends to continue once his probation ends and he stops getting tested) and I suppose I could see some value in that, but you can't expect much from use alone.

Here's the thing. Drugs alter perception. If you are not experienced in altered perceptions, then a single experience can be life altering and seem very spiritual. But if you alter your perception often, then that perception becomes common place and loses its magic.

If you are not experienced in altered perceptions, then a single experience can be life altering and seem very spiritual. But if you alter your perception often, then that perception becomes common place and loses its magic.

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That is almost exactly my experience except that while I had some deep insights when smoking, they weren't exactly life-altering. But when I smoked often, those same thoughts kept coming back; they were almost boring.

Since then I've experienced enough that I've actually had deeper insights in a normal state of consciousness than on weed. Who knows, though? Maybe meditating on it would stimulate something. Then again, I feel no need to use drugs for insights anymore. They don't mix well with my already abnormal brain chemistry.

d. said:

itwillend said:

Some things I found true were how animals responded to me.

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would you mind elaborating on this?

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please? :shout