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How much of this do you believe?

S-word

Well-Known Member
Qi - the circulating life energy that in Chinese philosophy is thought to be inherent in all things.



Qi - the circulating life energy that in Chinese philosophy is thought to be inherent in all things.----Sounds a lot like the Logos, the divine animating principle of the universe which pervades all that exists.

Because of the ambiguity surrounding the meaning of the Chinese word ‘qi,’ I have no intention of debating the issue, as one can take whichever of the multitude of varying interpretations they choose, in support their particular argument.
According to notes that were composed by individual students after the death of Confucius in 479 A.D, ‘qi’ can mean breath, or xue-qi (Blood and breath) when combined with the Chinese word for Blood. As to the question whether ‘qi’ exists as a force separate from matter, or whether ‘Qi’ arises from matter, or matter arises from ‘qi,’ I have my own opinion, which is reflected in world scriptures.

Genesis 2: 7,”And the Lord God formed man from ‘Matter’ and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living Soul.” Breath=life=soul.

“Soul” .... ‘nephesh,’ animal soul or animating life force: “Soul,” ‘neshamah’... “Breath=soul;” Isaiah 57: 16, KJV has, “the souls which I have made,” while other translations have, “The very people to whom I gave life,” ‘life=soul.’

Genesis 9: 3, “Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you----but flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, ye shall not eat.” Soul=breath=life=blood.

The Logos from which all things came into existence, by which all things that exist were made, and for whom all things exist, is the divine animating principle of the universe, or the life force which pervades all that exists within the universe, and to which eternal soul, all the information from the interaction of all that it has become, is gathered as the eternal evolving spirit or living mind that is God: and the Logos has been erroneously translated as “Word,” for although in the main, we express the information that we gather in the words that we speak, the Logos express’ his gathered information in the creation itself.

Also, the root to the word ‘Brahman’ originally meant speech, and like the Logos, Brahman express’ the information gathered in each cycle of universal activity, not as speech, but in the creation of a new universal body in the image and likeness of, in fact the resurrection of the old universal body, in which the Light of Man had evolved as the supreme personality of Godhead to that living body.

The Logos, Brahman, Qi, etc, are but different names to the one impartial God who sends his blessing and destructions on all, making no distinction between the righteous and the wicked.

They are the same God, who is the essential divine reality of the universe; the eternal spirit from which all being originates and to which all must return, only to burst forth once more in its eternal process of growth or evolution.

The nights and days of Brahma are called Manvantara or the cycle of manifestation, ‘The Great Day,’ which is a period of universal activity, that is preceded, and also followed by ‘Pralaya,’ a dark period, which to our finite minds seems as an eternity. ‘Manvantara,’ is a creative day as seen in the six days of creation in Genesis, ‘Pralaya,’ is the evening that precedes the next creative day.


Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being to non being, and again from non being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, six spokes representing six forms of existence.” ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
Qi - the circulating life energy that in Chinese philosophy is thought to be inherent in all things.----Sounds a lot like the Logos, the divine animating principle of the universe which pervades all that exists.

Because of the ambiguity surrounding the meaning of the Chinese word ‘qi,’ I have no intention of debating the issue, as one can take whichever of the multitude of varying interpretations they choose, in support their particular argument.

I don't think it's particularly ambiguous, it's simply a word and a concept with no English (or Latin) parallel, and certainly no relationship to Christian scripture.

To a Chinese person (particularly a practitioner of qi gong or any of the arts to which understanding qi is fundamental), qi is a usable, testable, observable "force". Chinese doctors do peer-reviewed research on it, particularly its effectiveness in healing certain types of cancer (even in rats). This accessibility to the scientific process is why I think it's the appropriate word for what I'm talking about.
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
I don't think it's particularly ambiguous, it's simply a word and a concept with no English (or Latin) parallel, and certainly no relationship to Christian scripture.
To a Chinese person (particularly a practitioner of qi gong or any of the arts to which understanding qi is fundamental), qi is a usable, testable, observable "force". Chinese doctors do peer-reviewed research on it, particularly its effectiveness in healing certain types of cancer (even in rats). This accessibility to the scientific process is why I think it's the appropriate word for what I'm talking about.

“Qi,” is frequently translated as energy flow, but its literal translation is “air,” “Breath,” or “gas”.
The English parallel would be “Energeia,” or “Vitalism,” the Latin parallel, “Spiritus” which originally meant “Breathing,” and the Sanskrit term “prana,” meaning “Breath,” there are also other parallels.

As I have said in a previous post, “because of the ambiguity surrounding the meaning of the Chinese word ‘qi,’ I have no intention of debating the issue.”
But I would like for you to explain to me, If you believe that Qi, is the circulating life energy that in Chinese philosophy is thought to be inherent in all things and that “Qi” also means the energy flow, or animating principle that is inherent in all things, and is the universal breath of life, then are you, or are you not, equating Qi, with "The Logos," which is the divine universal animating principle that is inherent in all things, and Brahman who is the divine reality of the universe, the invisible and eternal spirit from which all things (in which he is inherent) originates, and to who all must return?

Like “Qi,” both “The Logos” and “Brahman” are the circulating life energy that animates this eternal oscillating universal body.
 
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The-G-man

De Facto Atheist
Spontaneous universe

Spontaneous earth

Spontaneous life

Assent of life

Spontaneous intelligence

Spontaneous soul

(Spontaneous- not apparently contrived or manipulated : natural)

I believe in it all, it's called the Laws of Physics and Nature, for which there is all proof for, where is yours?
 

The-G-man

De Facto Atheist
Even though I am partially on your side, I am very curious about that proof of yours..

Sorry for being rude but it is not possible to state all the laws of Physics and nature in a post, i would rather assume people would know of theories of the beggining of the Universe and Nature (none of which being infallible, and neither does Science pretend that they are) before choosing a religious or other standing point.
Also as i don't believe in Wikki or any other net source i would rather not provide links to sites, rather recommend books;

Endless Universe (a new history of the cosmos) by Paul J. Steinhardt & Neil Turok
A Brief History of Time (Stephen Hawking)
 

BucephalusBB

ABACABB
Sorry for being rude but it is not possible to state all the laws of Physics and nature in a post, i would rather assume people would know of theories of the beggining of the Universe and Nature (none of which being infallible, and neither does Science pretend that they are) before choosing a religious or other standing point.

No worries, like I said, I am partially on your side. What I really meant to say is that proof for you does not equal proof for theists. (If there is anything I learned here :p)

You said "I believe in it all", but even the big bang does not have to be the 'beginning' of the universe and when it comes to a concept like a soul, I would really like to see proof. Or anything at all that shows even a little that a concept like the soul can be real. ;)
 

The-G-man

De Facto Atheist
No worries, like I said, I am partially on your side. What I really meant to say is that proof for you does not equal proof for theists. (If there is anything I learned here :p)

You said "I believe in it all", but even the big bang does not have to be the 'beginning' of the universe and when it comes to a concept like a soul, I would really like to see proof. Or anything at all that shows even a little that a concept like the soul can be real. ;)

Yeah i would agree with that, i don't argue with the concept of a God, but with those who claim to know truth and the only way to be accepted by it is to follow this certain way.
To claim you and your faith alone have the answers is elevating oneself (i feel) to make you feel more important, when in reality we are animals like everything else on the planet and in the grand scheme of things involving the cosmos,we are just life forms on a small planet in our galaxy, Our Sun being one of two billion Stars in our galaxy, being one of one hundred and twenty billion galaxies in the visible Universe(i think the number is actually even greater), can they really think that all this all set for us alone?
 
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jtartar

Well-Known Member
That's not what ex nihilo nihil fit means. The phrase you want is creatio ex nihilo.

MidnightBlue,
Ex Nihilo Nihil Fit, actually means no one can create something out of nothing. I was just saying that God is the only one who can create matter out of things not seen-energy, Heb 11:3.

The other statement you copied is just the opposite of what the Bible says. Prov 8:17 says that those who seek Me are the ones that find Me.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
“Qi,” is frequently translated as energy flow, but its literal translation is “air,” “Breath,” or “gas”.
The English parallel would be “Energeia,” or “Vitalism,” the Latin parallel, “Spiritus” which originally meant “Breathing,” and the Sanskrit term “prana,” meaning “Breath,” there are also other parallels.

Then I should clarify the usage of "qi" I refer to is the version described by Zhuang Zi.

From wiki:
Zhuang Zi gave us one of the most productive of insights into the nature of "qi". He said "Human beings are born [because of] the accumulation of 'qi'. When it accumulates there is life. When it dissipates there is death.... There is one 'qi' that connects and pervades everything in the world."[15]

This describes very well exactly what I "saw", and what is used by practitioners of qi gong and tai ji, with empirically measurable effect.

But I would like for you to explain to me, If you believe that Qi, is the circulating life energy that in Chinese philosophy is thought to be inherent in all things and that “Qi” also means the energy flow, or animating principle that is inherent in all things, and is the universal breath of life, then are you, or are you not, equating Qi, with "The Logos," which is the divine universal animating principle that is inherent in all things, and Brahman who is the divine reality of the universe, the invisible and eternal spirit from which all things (in which he is inherent) originates, and to who all must return?

Qi is not a god, and is not divine, and is present everywhere - not just in "animated" things.

I should point out that I "believe in it" only to the extent it is accessible to the senses of those who cultivate it and empirically measurable by objective observers. If "Logos" or "Brahman" possess these same empirical qualities, they might be apt comparisons, but as I understand it they are purely conceptual.
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
Then I should clarify the usage of "qi" I refer to is the version described by Zhuang Zi.
From wiki:


This describes very well exactly what I "saw", and what is used by practitioners of qi gong and tai ji, with empirically measurable effect.



Qi is not a god, and is not divine, and is present everywhere - not just in "animated" things.

I should point out that I "believe in it" only to the extent it is accessible to the senses of those who cultivate it and empirically measurable by objective observers. If "Logos" or "Brahman" possess these same empirical qualities, they might be apt comparisons, but as I understand it they are purely conceptual.

Animate: "To impart motion or activity to." The Logos pervades everything in the universe and animates all that is, even those things such as rocks, which you apparently believe are inanimate. I would ask you to mentally descend into one of the uncountable number of your supposedly inanimate rocks, inward, inward, and now the rock has disappeared and all that you can see is the uncountable molecules which had appeared to be that rock.

Now choose one of those molecules and descend into it, inward, inward, until the molecule is no more, and all you can see is the Atoms which had appeared to you to have been that Molecule. Continuing on we choose one of those atom, and descend deep beyond the outer shell which is but an electron that travels at a speed around that unmeasurably small distance, so that it occupies all space on that plan at the same instant in time as measured by we humans.

Now we have finally come to the wave particles that have Zero mass and no electric charge, and yet they are animated, carrying linear and angular momentum. We have now entered a different dimension, a world of shimmering vibrating wave particles, clouds of swirling patterens, that through our physical senses in this three dimensional world that we live in, we perceive as the living universe. This is the eternal and ever evolving mind that is my God, "The Logos" to which is gathered all the information from the interaction of all those different swirling patterns of animated wave particles : Where in this dimension do we find your "Qi"?
If, like "The Logos," "Qi" is the animating principle in all things, are we not speaking of the same principle?
 
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Alceste

Vagabond
Animate: "To impart motion or activity to." The Logos pervades everything in the universe and animates all that is, even those things such as rocks, which you apparently believe are inanimate. I would ask you to mentally descend into one of the uncountable number of your supposedly inanimate rocks, inward, inward, and now the rock has disappeared and all that you can see is the uncountable molecules which had appeared to be that rock.

Now choose one of those molecules and descend into it, inward, inward, until the molecule is no more, and all you can see is the Atoms which had appeared to you to have been that Molecule. Continuing on we choose one of those atom, and descend deep beyond the outer shell which is but an electron that travels at a speed around that unmeasurably small distance, so that it occupies all space on that plan at the same instant in time as measured by we humans.

Now we have finally come to the wave particles that have Zero mass and no electric charge, and yet they are animated, carrying linear and angular momentum. We have now entered a different dimension, a world of shimmering vibrating wave particles, clouds of swirling patterens, that through our physical senses in this three dimensional world that we live in, we perceive as the living universe. This is the eternal and ever evolving mind that is my God, "The Logos" to which is gathered all the information from the interaction of all those different swirling patterns of animated wave particles : Where in this dimension do we find your "Qi"?
If, like "The Logos," "Qi" is the animating principle in all things, are we not speaking of the same principle?

If you can physically feel motion of the Logos in your body and all around you, and can manipulate it with your focused intent with measurable and predictable effect, and these effects would be also measurable by objective observers using the scientific method, we are potentially talking about the same thing. If not, the possibility that my "qi" is not your "god" in no way detracts from the value of your relationship with it, IMO.

Thanks for your post - I enjoyed the journey. I've taken it before in both directions (outwards and in) and it's been a fundamental building block of my current perspective. It's nice to hear when others have been to a place I know and love.
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
If you can physically feel motion of the Logos in your body and all around you, and can manipulate it with your focused intent with measurable and predictable effect, and these effects would be also measurable by objective observers using the scientific method, we are potentially talking about the same thing. If not, the possibility that my "qi" is not your "god" in no way detracts from the value of your relationship with it, IMO.
Thanks for your post - I enjoyed the journey. I've taken it before in both directions (outwards and in) and it's been a fundamental building block of my current perspective. It's nice to hear when others have been to a place I know and love.

The Logos is all that is. From the logos came all that exists, and it was by the Logos that all things were brought into existence, and It is for the Logos that all things exist.
That part of the Logos which has become 'Who I Am,' The living body in which I, the supreme personality of Godhead which has and continues to develop within this body from the information taken in by the senses of this living animated body, Dwells behind the veil that hangs before the inner most sanctuary of this body, the tabernacle of my God, and he is my ancestal Father to whose throne 'I' who am an obedient servant to "Who I Am,' are the heir to his throne and, but an extention of my ever growing and ever changing living earthly ancestral house, which building began in the primeval slimy waters of the earth.

No one can steal from or hurt me in anyway, unless it is the will of the Logos who has become the body in which they the spirits are developing, if they attempt to harm me against the will of the Logos, who is one with 'Who I Am,' with whom I am one, He will stop them in their track. I do not manipute the Logos, and yet that which I ask for I inevitably receive. But do I receive because I have asked, or do I ask because he has already chosen to give to me that which I am about to ask to receive? If I say that something will happen, Does the Logos make it happen, or is it because what has happened in the past of the "Omega," who the "Alpha Logos" has become, and who encompasses all time within this cycle of universal activity, has shown to me what will happen in my future, which is his past?
 
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Alceste

Vagabond
The Logos is all that is. From the logos came all that exists, and it was by the Logos that all things were brought into existence, and It is for the Logos that all things exist.
That part of the Logos which has become 'Who I Am,' The living body in which I, the supreme personality of Godhead which has and continues to develop within this body from the information taken in by the senses of this living animated body, Dwells behind the veil that hangs before the inner most sanctuary of this body, the tabernacle of my God, and he is my ancestal Father to whose throne 'I' who am an obedient servant to "Who I Am,' are the heir to his throne and, but an extention of my ever growing and ever changing living earthly ancestral house, which building began in the primeval slimy waters of the earth.

No one can steal from or hurt me in anyway, unless it is the will of the Logos who has become the body in which they the spirits are developing, if they attempt to harm me against the will of the Logos, who is one with 'Who I Am,' with whom I am one, He will stop them in their track. I do not manipute the Logos, and yet that which I ask for I inevitably receive. But do I receive because I have asked, or do I ask because he has already chosen to give to me that which I am about to ask to receive? If I say that something will happen, Does the Logos make it happen, or is it because what has happened in the past of the "Omega," who the "Alpha Logos" has become, and who encompasses all time within this cycle of universal activity, has shown to me what will happen in my future, which is his past?

And how do you measure the effects of Logos in a manner that is accessible to reason, empiricism and objectivity? If you can't, it isn't Qi.
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
And how do you measure the effects of Logos in a manner that is accessible to reason, empiricism and objectivity? If you can't, it isn't Qi.

It may not be Qi according to the version described by Zhuang Zi; but there are many other versions of Qi that I am confident are in harmony with the concept of 'The Logos.'
 

Alceste

Vagabond
It may not be Qi according to the version described by Zhuang Zi; but there are many other versions of Qi that I am confident are in harmony with the concept of 'The Logos.'

This may be so, since it literally only means something like "energy", which can mean a lot of different things. Nevertheless, we recognize the difference between electricity and "good vibes".
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
This may be so, since it literally only means something like "energy", which can mean a lot of different things. Nevertheless, we recognize the difference between electricity and "good vibes".

since Qi literally means something like "energy", "breath," "the animating principle that is inherant in all that is," I see Qi as a Lower rung in the ladder that led to the higher concept of the Logos.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
since Qi literally means something like "energy", "breath," "the animating principle that is inherant in all that is," I see Qi as a Lower rung in the ladder that led to the higher concept of the Logos.


lol - alright then. However you wish to see it is fine by me.
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
And how do you measure the effects of Logos in a manner that is accessible to reason, empiricism and objectivity? If you can't, it isn't Qi.
According to whom?


since Qi literally means something like "energy", "breath," "the animating principle that is inherant in all that is," I see Qi as a Lower rung in the ladder that led to the higher concept of the Logos.
Oy Weh.
 

jt233

New Member
I'll forgive your ignorance and even help you out.

Spontaneous universe- a universe that was created from nothing without outside influence.

Spontaneous earth- an earth that was formed within that universe without outside influence.

Spontaneous life- abiogenesis

Assent of life- evolution of life that moved from less complicated to more complicated.

Spontaneous intelligence- evolved intelligence from non-intelligence without outside influence

Spontaneous soul- the formation of a soul within life without outside influence

Havent you heard of spontanious combustion in some rare instances there have been reports of things or people combusting for no apperant reason althoug it is rare things can happen spontaniously
 
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