Is extremism the enemy?

no indiffrence is

Jesus was an extremist. Martin Luther was an extremist. Abolitionism was extremist. Woman's sufferage was extremist. The labor, woman's and anti-war movements were extremist.

Is environmentalism or animal rights extremist? Will your great grandkids consider them extremist?

Yesterday's extremism is today's middle of the road propriety. Why should I expect today's to be any different?

I would like to be:

• extremley helpful

• extremley self-less

• extremely generous and kind

• extremely merciful

• extremely careful

I hope that I can achieve these extreme goals one day.

I think the instinct to moderation serves us well most of the time, but there are other times when we need to take a carefully considered position that is not middle of the road.

Seyorni said:

Jesus was an extremist. Martin Luther was an extremist. Abolitionism was extremist. Woman's sufferage was extremist. The labor, woman's and anti-war movements were extremist.

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Why do you feel these things were extremism? Why not consider the factions against them extremism?

Seyorni said:

Is environmentalism or animal rights extremist? Will your great grandkids consider them extremist?

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Possibly, I don't know. I doubt it but this isn't something that can be answered so why ask the question?

Seyorni said:

Yesterday's extremism is today's middle of the road propriety. Why should I expect today's to be any different?

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So you are saying the extremism is in the eye of the beholder and history is the judge? Whatever is accepted by society is not extremism and what ever goes against society is? Not sure I can agree with that.

Sunstone said:

I think the instinct to moderation serves us well most of the time, but there are other times when we need to take a carefully considered position that is not middle of the road.

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Ah, but do not mistake a moderate for a centrist. A moderate does not choose the middle of the road just because it is in the middle. At least this moderate doesn't.

Trey of Diamonds said:

Ah, but do not mistake a moderate for a centrist. A moderate does not choose the middle of the road just because it is in the middle. At least this moderate doesn't.

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The problem with the terms "moderate" and "extremist" is that they can mean so many different things. For instance, to your average Joe on the street, my National Anarchism and Odalism would likely seem very extreme, but it's really quite moderate compared to a lot of the stuff out there. To some people, centrism might be the only moderate position.

I'm saying some things labeled extreme by current sentiments turn out to be reasonable or even admirable once people get past their socially destabilizing or intellectually disturbing phases.

Others, of course, are well and truly virulent.
Best to turn off preconceptions, prejudices and emotional baggage and consider controversial positions dispassionately, lest you come down on the wrong side of history.

Seyorni said:

Best to turn off preconceptions, prejudices and emotional baggage and consider controversial positions dispassionately, lest you come down on the wrong side of history.

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Yes, but I think this is done best by a moderate.

I voted "other" because I believe in moderation. No matter how "moderate" I am, there will be extremists, and I am thankful for the extremists on the opposite side because ideally there should be one granola-munching, vegan, atheist, anarchist, environmentalist social libertarian extremist for every meat-eating, fur-clad authoritarian, religious, repressive, climate-change-denying free market capitalist extremist.

At the moment, as the world is weighted toward the latter I'm grateful for the former, even if my own views are not necessarily extreme.

On the other hand, I don't believe it's ethical to aim for the middle of the road (that's my main gripe with the "neutral" media). On some things you just have to decide for yourself what is "right" and who cares where the middle is? A good example would be the run-up to the war. At that time just about everybody thought "something had to be done" (violence, for the most part) in Afghanistan. If you averaged out the mainstream views, I would have been ranked as a pacifist "extremist". Now that most people think the war was a mistake, I look pretty moderate, but in fact my own POV never wavered. The middle changed.

Alceste said:

I don't believe it's ethical to aim for the middle of the road

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That's why I differentiate between moderate and centrist. Centrists are fence riders and neutral to the extreme while a moderate is someone who can examine both sides of an argument, take each sides points seriously, and come to a logical conclusion based on the information at hand. The extremist is only capable of seeing their own side's view and any argument from the other side is automatically wrong merely because it is from the other side.

Trey of Diamonds said:

That's why I differentiate between moderate and centrist. Centrists are fence riders and neutral to the extreme while a moderate is someone who can examine both sides of an argument, take each sides points seriously, and come to a logical conclusion based on the information at hand. The extremist is only capable of seeing their own side's view and any argument from the other side is automatically wrong merely because it is from the other side.

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Ah, well in that case extremism is the enemy.

Trey of Diamonds said:

The extremist is only capable of seeing their own side's view and any argument from the other side is automatically wrong merely because it is from the other side.

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By that measure there are issues about which I am an extremist. For example:-
Meat eaters - automatically wrong on the subject of eating meat.
Supporters of violence - automatically wrong about everything for as long as they support violence.

Trey of Diamonds said:

That's why I differentiate between moderate and centrist. Centrists are fence riders and neutral to the extreme while a moderate is someone who can examine both sides of an argument, take each sides points seriously, and come to a logical conclusion based on the information at hand. The extremist is only capable of seeing their own side's view and any argument from the other side is automatically wrong merely because it is from the other side.

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Going by this definition I'd say extremism is definitely best avoided. no matter how vehemently against something you may be you should always look at the other side and see what they have to say and should do this BEFORE as well as after you decide to be vehemently against said thing.

It has been pointed out that Jesus, Martin Luther, women’s suffrage and abolitionism would be considered extremists and that they were vital to bringing about much needed change to society. While I agree that the changes they brought about were much needed I question whether they should be considered extremists.

Consider the statement, “In an insane society, a sane man will appear to be insane”. Could it also be said that “In an extreme situation, a moderate will appear to be extreme”?

I think some people may be confusing moderation with apathy, that to be a moderate you must exist within the status quo and not rock the boat. I disagree. As a moderate, if I see a situation in which extremists are in control and maintaining an extreme set of circumstances I can take action to change the situation without becoming an extremists myself.

The easiest example today would be same sex marriage. Currently an extremist group of people are in control of what defines marriage and who is allowed to participate in what they see as a private club for members only.

As a moderate I believe this is an extreme situation and deserves to be changed. One option is to become an extremist myself but I find that to be counter productive. An extremist would demand the Catholic Church perform same-sex ceremonies, picket perfect strangers weddings shouting out obscenities during the ceremony, firebombing politician’s houses, etc. These kinds of things are extreme and wrong. Forming peaceful protests and marches that have the proper permits, letter writing campaigns, debates and others are moderate reactions and, in my opinion, the correct way to go about generating change.

MoonWater said:

Going by this definition I'd say extremism is definitely best avoided. no matter how vehemently against something you may be you should always look at the other side and see what they have to say and should do this BEFORE as well as after you decide to be vehemently against said thing.

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If you can't argue both sides of a controversial issue, perhaps you aren't familiar enough with it to have a valid opinion, or the issue itself wasn't really controversial to begin with.

Seyorni said:

If you can't argue both sides of a controversial issue, perhaps you aren't familiar enough with it to have a valid opinion, or the issue itself wasn't really controversial to begin with.

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Exactly. No matter how much you disagree with the other side you should still know enough about their side of the argument to argue it from their perspective should you for some reason decide to play devil's advocate.

3.14 said:

no indiffrence is

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well said!

Heneni

In a lot of cases, the differences between the "extremist" and the "moderate" are in the eyes of the beholder. Was Thomas Jefferson an extremist in his political arguments? At the very least, they are dominant today. Yet, not only would his views have been labeled "extreme", but he went to extreme measures to institute them (violence, vandalism, etc.).

We need the extremists so that we can develop <i>real</i> moderates. Even if an extremist doesn't listen to another person, he will always be on the loonie fringe. If the moderates, however, are forced to take his position into consideration, it brings real moderation. After all, few people are as open-minded as they often think they are (and that is a good thing), and this process takes time and is quite messy.