Pope Benedict XVI Silences nun for ministering to gays and lesbians.

Sunstone said:

So, if I understand you correctly, the nun was told not to minister to gays and lesbians?

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Yes, she was told not to minister to gays and lesbians.

oracle said:

Yes, she was told not to minister to gays and lesbians.

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On the face of it, that seems to me outrageous.

oracle said:

...What more do you need...

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How about a link to the story? What exactly was said and when? Is this a first hand account? Were you there when he spoke to the nun?

I'm not defending or condemning him or the nun. Nothing personal, but when you post a poll asking us to pass judgement on the man, you really need to provide more information than 'it happened' for people to make an educated decision.

CaptainXeroid said:

How about a link to the story? What exactly was said and when? Is this a first hand account? Were you there when he spoke to the nun?

I'm not defending or condemning him or the nun. Nothing personal, but when you post a poll asking us to pass judgement on the man, you really need to provide more information than 'it happened' for people to make an educated decision.

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Thats understandable, but there's no need to get this point across by saying otherwise.
They don't have this specific interview posted on the internet, but if you want to ask for the script, you can probably obtain it from foxnews. [email protected]. It happened on todays Bill Oreilley show as of the 20th, as he had interviewed a nun.

If she was indeed going against Catholic beliefs that she wanted to participate in (since she was a nun), I see no problems with silencing her.

If you try to make Catholicism "liberal", on one perspective it no longer is Catholicism. I would assume that this action is simply because of his standpoint on secularism. I'm sure the nun's intentions are good, but meanwhile the Pope's intentions are genuinely good from his perspective. I'm just curious as to what people's standpoint is on this matter.

oracle said:

Yes, she was told not to minister to gays and lesbians.

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Given all that's been said, it seems more than reasonable to assume that this ia a half-truth or outright lie and, in either case, being promulgated in a totally irresponsible manner.

oracle said:

It was a topic on the Bill OReiley show, I had watched it on the AFN news channel where Bill OReiley had interviewed a nun who had been silenced by the Pope for ministering to Gays.

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Do you have more information on this? How was she ministering to gays in a way that went against church beliefs?

This ought to answer all your questions:

http://astro.temple.edu/~arcc/newways1.htm

I find that hard to believe. Talk about media bias. Can somebody please look up the word
a g e n d a.

Isn't it an intrinsic moral evil to designate homosexuality as an intrinsic moral evil?

There`s no such thing as an "intrinsic" moral evil.

I would say that the Pope has every right to silence anyone that claims to be Catholic - effectively, he is defining what a "Catholic" is. As the leader of his Church, he is tasked with that duty.

If one of the followers decides that they disagree with any of the tenets of the Catholic Church (as set forth by the Pope), they have the option of leaving and forming their own church (exactly as the other sects of Christianity, which are collectively called Protestants).

It was written in an article on MSNBC today that the new Pope has stated that he wants a "smaller and purer" Catholic Church.

"So it is written, so shall it be!" - Yul Brynner (playing the role of the Pharoah Rameses) in Cecille B. DeMille's The Ten Commandments

SOGFPP said:

This ought to answer all your questions:

http://astro.temple.edu/~arcc/newways1.htm

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Most of the links led nowhere. I read what was there but still am not sure exactly what she was doing that led to her being censured.

However, if her ministering involved acceptance of homosexuality as a valid alternative lifestyle, then I can see the church's problem. As a catholic nun, she should represent the catholic beliefs and the church does not recognize this as acceptable. If she can't, then perhaps she needs to find another religion.

Yah I would say it's a little biased, a lot of people in the media have been interviewing only the people who are in opposition to the new Pope.


What I got from the show, was that this nun was silenced by Pope Benedict recently, this was pretty close from what Bill Oreilley said. This is what I got from his show. He didn't elaborate on this issue, he basically said that she was silenced by the Pope for ministering to gays, and then interviewed her.

Evidently, she was "silenced" in 1999 by Ratzinger's Vatican bureau. She has spent nearly 30 years trying to teach tolerance and inclusion for gays and lesbians in the church.

“My heart went down to my feet. I was so despondent,” said Sister Jeannine Gramick of Hyattsville, Md., who in 1999 was ordered by Ratzinger’s Vatican bureau to stop ministering to gays. “http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/journalgazette/news/nation/11441226.htm

Cardinal Ratzinger's Notification on Gramick and Nugent, Released by the Vatican on July 13, 1999: http://www.dignityusa.org/news/new-ways-cdf.html

So you guys basically believe, that in the defense or preservation of the Catholic faith, these actions were justified? What about Catholics that are homosexuals, should they find another faith? Did Jesus's message emphasize on homosexuality? Are we not all sinners? Does not the bible say that if a person claims they have no sin, they are not from God? And if all sin is the same in God's eyes which the bible claims, isn't lying just as bad as homosexuality? It therefore doesn't matter what sin you do, it still makes you a sinner.

I think that the Pope has the right to do as he wish, to preserve the Catholic faith, because to a certain extend if you make Catholicism too liberal it would no longer be Catholicism. But I'm just wondering, do actions like this preserve Jesus's message of love, who sat with the tax collectors and sinners and ministered to them? Why be intolerant to other sinners when we are all sinful? Although the thread topic sounds biased, my point is not to be against the Pope but to question the logic of such a perspective. I think you all have good anwers concerning the matter.

The Voice of Reason said:

It was written in an article on MSNBC today that the new Pope has stated that he wants a "smaller and purer" Catholic Church.

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Specifically, what do you think makes a church "purer"? Are we all not sinners? Is perfection a moral standard? Can anybody be morally perfect then?

Nope, not acceptable at all.

Jesus certainly never told his disciples not to minister to anyone except perhaps the religious leaders of the time which puts Benedict and his hierarchy in the position of defining Christianity much more narrowly than the "founder of the firm" so to speak.

Kiwimac

oracle said:

So you guys basically believe, that in the defense or preservation of the Catholic faith, these actions were justified? What about Catholics that are homosexuals, should they find another faith? Did Jesus's message emphasize on homosexuality? Are we not all sinners? Does not the bible say that if a person claims they have no sin, they are not from God? And if all sin is the same in God's eyes which the bible claims, isn't lying just as bad as homosexuality? It therefore doesn't matter what sin you do, it still makes you a sinner.

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Since I still can't seem to find the whole story on specifically what this nun did, and since the Vatican has not said that sinners can't be ministered to, I'm going to have to assume...until further info is found...that in some way the nun was advocating that it wasn't a sin to be a homosexual which seems to be against catholic beliefs.

There's a difference between ministering to sinners and condoning their sin. And yes, no sin is greater than another according to the bible, but I'd guess that the church would also not advocate one of their nuns telling a liar that it's ok to lie, an adulterer to continue on with his/her adultery or a murderer to go ahead and keep killing.

As far as I can see, the church isn't saying the sinner isn't welcome in the church.

oracle said:

But I'm just wondering, do actions like this preserve Jesus's message of love, who sat with the tax collectors and sinners and ministered to them? Why be intolerant to other sinners when we are all sinful? Although the thread topic sounds biased, my point is not to be against the Pope but to question the logic of such a perspective. I think you all have good anwers concerning the matter.

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Yes, Jesus did minister to sinners, but even he said "go and sin no more." Rejecting the sin is not being intolerant.

oracle said:

So you guys basically believe, that in the defense or preservation of the Catholic faith, these actions were justified?

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Absolutely. The Catholic Church has every right to define Catholicism and those who do not like the resulting definition have every right to reject it from the outside. There is no inalienable right, God-given or not, to be a Catholic nun operation as a Catholic nun in persistent and fundamental opposition to Catholic dogma.

Do I agree with the doctine? No, I disagree sharply and fundamentally - and as a non-Catholic. But the fact remains that the nun was "silenced", not for ministering, but for ministering in a way at odds with church policy. The title of the thread is a half-truth and, as such, a distortion of the truth.

Do you people agree with me. Something more mundane about the legal justifications in love and will at God now. "Know thyself," said Plato. This new pope adds: don't be so sure untill you've consulted with God the creator? :canadian: