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Pope Benedict XVI Silences nun for ministering to gays and lesbians.

What is your opinion?

  • He was right for silencing the nun.

    Votes: 3 13.6%
  • This is devastating for those who want to see reform.

    Votes: 3 13.6%
  • This is wrong and judgemental.

    Votes: 15 68.2%
  • I'm not sure.

    Votes: 1 4.5%

  • Total voters
    22
  • Poll closed .

oracle

Active Member
What do you think about the new Pope's religious conservatism? There has been mixed reactions by Catholics about the new Pope. Some have made comments that they were expecting a more liberal Pope.
 

Quoth The Raven

Half Arsed Muse
oracle said:
What do you think about the new Pope's religious conservatism? There has been mixed reactions by Catholics about the new Pope. Some have made comments that they were expecting a more liberal Pope.
Well that was silly of them, wasn't it.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
At the risk of upsetting my Orthodox friends on the forum, I think that to restrict help to a group not recognized by the church is totally against humane moral precepts. This is my opinion; I am not anti-Catholic, but I am anti pejudice.:(
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
oracle said:
What do you think about the new Pope's religious conservatism?
I don't particularly like it. Nor do I like the gross irresponsibility, if not dishonesty, suggested by the use of inflamatory thread titles left wholly unsubstantiated in the opening thread.

As for the new Pope, according to the Gay City News
In 1986, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, head of the Vatican's Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (responsible for defining Roman Catholic doctrine and keeping Catholic clergy and theologians in line) issued a "Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons". Ratzinger wrote that a homosexual orientation, even if the person is totally celibate, is a "tendency" toward an "intrinsic moral evil". Moreover, a homosexual inclination is both an "objective disorder" and a "moral disorder", which is "contrary to the creative wisdom of God". "Special concern and pastoral attention should be directed towards those who have this condition, lest they be led to believe that the living out of this orientation in homosexual activity is a morally acceptable option. It is not." Ratzinger's 1986 Letter concludes that pastoral care for homosexual persons should include "the assistance of the psychological, sociological and medical sciences", and that "all support should be withdrawn from any organisations which seek to undermine the teachings of the Church, which are ambigous about it, or which ignore it entirely".
Declaring homosexuality to be an intrinsically evil moral disorder is, in my opinion, disgusting and devoid of scientific backing. Respect for Catholics can not and should not extend to respect for such backwardness.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Deut. 32.8 said:
I don't particularly like it. Nor do I like the gross irresponsibility, if not dishonesty, suggested by the use of inflamatory thread titles left wholly unsubstantiated in the opening thread.



As for the new Pope, according to the Gay City News
In 1986, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, head of the Vatican's Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (responsible for defining Roman Catholic doctrine and keeping Catholic clergy and theologians in line) issued a "Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons". Ratzinger wrote that a homosexual orientation, even if the person is totally celibate, is a "tendency" toward an "intrinsic moral evil". Moreover, a homosexual inclination is both an "objective disorder" and a "moral disorder", which is "contrary to the creative wisdom of God". "Special concern and pastoral attention should be directed towards those who have this condition, lest they be led to believe that the living out of this orientation in homosexual activity is a morally acceptable option. It is not." Ratzinger's 1986 Letter concludes that pastoral care for homosexual persons should include "the assistance of the psychological, sociological and medical sciences", and that "all support should be withdrawn from any organisations which seek to undermine the teachings of the Church, which are ambigous about it, or which ignore it entirely".
Declaring homosexuality to be an intrinsically evil moral disorder is, in my opinion, disgusting and devoid of scientific backing. Respect for Catholics can not and should not extend to respect for such backwardness.
I don't for a minute think that all Catholics think that way Deut, at least I hope they don't..
 

Druidus

Keeper of the Grove
I don't for a minute think that all Catholics think that way Deut, at least I hope they don't..
Let's put it this way... If I had been a Cardinal, I'd have voted for SOGFPP, or a couple of others on here. They may think it to be wrong, but they're not like this Pope.
 

The Voice of Reason

Doctor of Thinkology
It would appear that this Pope wishes to take the Catholic Church in a very conservative direction. As the head of his church, it is his perogative to do so, just as it is the perogative for members of any religion to embrace or rebuke the teachings of those embued with such power.
Without a doubt, this type of leadership will have an impact on some that will look for answers in other religions or belief systems.

TVOR
 

robtex

Veteran Member
michel said:
I don't for a minute think that all Catholics think that way Deut, at least I hope they don't..
That is not the point. The point is that their "god inspired leader" who claims to be the closest human contact to God does and he says this is so. Divinely inspired messages of hate are not reasonable or tolorable and this new pope has just started off on a very poor foot. Many Catholics don't see this as the pope saying this but as GOD saying gays are evil. And many of them believe anything and everything they hear from God.
 

James the Persian

Dreptcredincios Crestin
michel said:
At the risk of upsetting my Orthodox friends on the forum, I think that to restrict help to a group not recognized by the church is totally against humane moral precepts. This is my opinion; I am not anti-Catholic, but I am anti pejudice.:(
michel,

I don't, as an Orthodox Christian, quite understand why you think you'd risk upsetting us (unless you actually meant small 'o' orthodox, which would be different) but I can say that I agree with you. The Orthodox Church does not consider homosexuality to be a sin, but a temptation. As with all such temptations, giving in to it is a sin (so homosexual acts are sinful) but fighting against it, say by striving to be celibate, is not.
Thankfully I'm not afflicted with that temptation, as I'm sure it is a very hard cross to bear, but I am afflicted with others, such as a tendency to anger, which are no less harmful. Sometimes I fall in to sin because of this but I get up and try again. So long as homosexuals take the same attitude to their sin then the Church should welcome them with open arms and give them every support but... you cannot be Orthodox, Catholic or any other kind of Christian and unrepentently and consciously go on sinning in any way, whether that be through the temptation of anger, sexual attraction to your own sex, or anything else.
The quotes mentioned here, if correct, appear to go well beyond this and show a distinctly unloving attitude, but I'm willing to hold off on judging the new Pope until I see how he acts. We shouldn't judge people purely on words which can be misinterpreted, twisted or merely spoken without careful thought, but on the fruits of their actions, and I am certainly no apologist for Roman Catholicism, nor am I in favour of the modern idea of the Papacy.

James
 

robtex

Veteran Member
The Voice of Reason said:
It would appear that this Pope wishes to take the Catholic Church in a very conservative direction. As the head of his church, it is his perogative to do so, just as it is the perogative for members of any religion to embrace or rebuke the teachings of those embued with such power.
Without a doubt, this type of leadership will have an impact on some that will look for answers in other religions or belief systems.
TVOR
I was listening to my catholic co-workers say the same thing yesterday at work TVOR. I would propose that there is no such thing as a "liberal" catholic church. The catholic church is not liberal or conservative it just "is". Meaning that God says they do end of story. They do not operate on opinions but on God inspired facts and as such their is nothing to research rationalize, weight the pros or cons of or debate. God says, Pope hears, Pope says, they do. In perfect theory. Looking at it from a theistic viewpoint there is nothing to conserve or liberate (conservative vs liberal). Only God's message to convey. It makes it all the more tragic that God informed the pope that Gays are evil. I hope God doesn't inform the pope that evil must be destoryed at this point.
 

The Voice of Reason

Doctor of Thinkology
robtex said:
... The catholic church is not liberal or conservative it just "is"...
I understand why you make this point, Robtex, but my statement about "leading the Catholic Church in a more conservative direction" is meant to convey "conservative" relative to society's view of conservative or liberal. I might get some debate on the point, but I would venture that most people (in America, at least) view the Catholic Church as a conservative institution. Some would pigeonhole it as Ultra-conservative, but like all such estimations, it is relative.
Like you, if God is speaking to the members of the Catholic Church through the instrument of the new Pope, I certainly hope that he doesn't send the message to start a holy war - not unlike the jihads that some Ayotollah's proclaim in Islam (note to all Muslims - I am NOT saying that all Ayotollah's proclaim them, only that some have).

Thanks,
TVOR
 

Melody

Well-Known Member
IacobPersul said:
you cannot be Orthodox, Catholic or any other kind of Christian and unrepentently and consciously go on sinning in any way, whether that be through the temptation of anger, sexual attraction to your own sex, or anything else.
Frubals, James.

If your faith says something is a sin because it comes from the word of God (as many people believe the Bible is), it has nothing to do with hate and intolerance. It has to do with obeying God's word.

I didn't see anywhere in the article where the new pope was advocating that they round up all the homosexuals and burn them at the stake. Nor did I see anything that said they were not welcome to come to church...unlike a few protestant churches who state outright that homosexuals are not welcome to even attend services.

It seems the church is saying they reject the sin...not the sinner. That's not hate or intolerance.
 

oracle

Active Member
Deut 32. 8. said:
Nor do I like the gross irresponsibility, if not dishonesty, suggested by the use of inflamatory thread titles left wholly unsubstantiated in the opening thread.
It was a topic on the Bill OReiley show, I had watched it on the AFN news channel where Bill OReiley had interviewed a nun who had been silenced by the Pope for ministering to Gays.

Where is my gross irresponsibility and dishonesty? I don't understand the necessity of your critisism.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Oracle, can you give us some specifics about the silencing of the nun? What exactly was she doing that the new pope prohibited?
 

robtex

Veteran Member
Melody said:
It seems the church is saying they reject the sin...not the sinner. That's not hate or intolerance.
It is if the gay indivdual rejects the notion that homosexulaity is a sin. If he/she does than he/she is disliked by the church as their is relative assurity that he/she will not change or modifiy your lifestyle accordingly. I would say the opposite of your qoute...reject the lifestyle and you reject the person. Furthermore anyone who is straight but sees homosexulaity as not morally negative the church will in ideology reject them too as they have committed the sin of acceptance in lew of the chruches stance until such time that those indivduals come to their senses and see homosexuality for the evil that it is.

Tolereance directly tied to flexible. For instance, I say I am intolerant of pedophiles as does pretty much everyone on these boards (hence the choice of example) My intolerance is based on my inflexablity on the matter. You can show me all the genetics proof you want, all the sob stories of their abused childhoods and all the situaitonal data you want but in the end I am extremely unlikly to be accepting of pedophlia because I am inflexiable on it. Replace me with Catholic church and pedophila with homosexualty and you have Catholic intolerance towards homosexuality on it. No flexiblity no tolerance.
 

CaptainXeroid

Following Christ
Deut. 32.8 said:
I don't particularly like it. Nor do I like the gross irresponsibility, if not dishonesty, suggested by the use of inflamatory thread titles left wholly unsubstantiated in the opening thread...
I concur wholeheartedly! I cannot in good conscience vote in this poll because I don't have the rest of the story. With several active threads regarding Pope Benedict XVI, I've lost track of who posted what where and am now rather confused. I'll be away from the 'puter tonight and all day tomorrow...maybe by then, my head will stop spinning.:p
 

oracle

Active Member
Sunstone said:
Oracle, can you give us some specifics about the silencing of the nun? What exactly was she doing that the new pope prohibited?
She simply had been ministering to gays and lesbians. From what I had watched, the main concern was about the Pope's conservatism, there wasn't great emphasis on the silencing. The point of my topic is to discuss if people think that was a correct action, and what is their opinion of his conservatism, not to be critisized for being irresponsible and dishonest.
 

oracle

Active Member
CaptainXeroid said:
I concur wholeheartedly! I cannot in good conscience vote in this poll because I don't have the rest of the story. With several active threads regarding Pope Benedict XVI, I've lost track of who posted what where and am now rather confused. I'll be away from the 'puter tonight and all day tomorrow...maybe by then, my head will stop spinning.:p
The topic is simple, he silenced a nun for ministering to gays and lesbians. What more do you need to understand that he silenced a nun for ministering to gays and lesbians? It's a clear reflection of his conservatism.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
oracle said:
She simply had been ministering to gays and lesbians. From what I had watched, the main concern was about the Pope's conservatism, there wasn't great emphasis on the silencing. The point of my topic is to discuss if people think that was a correct action, and what is their opinion of his conservatism, not to be critisized for being irresponsible and dishonest.
So, if I understand you correctly, the nun was told not to minister to gays and lesbians?
 
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