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Jesus is not God
- Thread starter andy
- Start date
God raised Jesus from the dead.
Acts 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Acts 3:15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
Acts 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Acts 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
God raised Jesus from the dead, the temple Jesus raised meant his body which is the temple not the building as the jews thought. We are now the temple when Jesus was raised by God from the dead, Jesus raised the temple. No longer was the building only where God existed.
2 Cor. 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Acts 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Acts 3:15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
Acts 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Acts 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
God raised Jesus from the dead, the temple Jesus raised meant his body which is the temple not the building as the jews thought. We are now the temple when Jesus was raised by God from the dead, Jesus raised the temple. No longer was the building only where God existed.
2 Cor. 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
If we pray to Jesus as God when he is not, what do we say of ourselves. Jesus told us how to pray, pray to the Father who is in heaven. Jesus was here on earth when he instructed on how to pray. God was in heaven when the question was asked.
If we pray to Jesus as God when he is not, what do we say of ourselves. Jesus told us how to pray, pray to the Father who is in heaven. Jesus was here on earth when he instructed on how to pray. God was in heaven when the question was asked.
Matthew 27:46
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Jesus was not talking to himself in the above passage, below Jesus was raised by God. Jesus was yet in heaven and had been in the grave 3 days and 3 nights.
John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Jesus is specific here and tells us he has not gone to heaven to the Father.
The Father is in heaven, Jesus was asked how do we pray, we pray to our Father who is in heaven. Jesus had not gone to heaven yet where the Father is.
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Jesus was not talking to himself in the above passage, below Jesus was raised by God. Jesus was yet in heaven and had been in the grave 3 days and 3 nights.
John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Jesus is specific here and tells us he has not gone to heaven to the Father.
The Father is in heaven, Jesus was asked how do we pray, we pray to our Father who is in heaven. Jesus had not gone to heaven yet where the Father is.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
I agree. The Son is not the Father and the Father is not the Son. They are two distinct beings united in will and purpose.andy said:
However, I don't think we can ignore this particular verse, which (unless I missed it) no one has mentioned yet: But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. (Hebrews 1:8)
God the Father is quoted here, as speaking to His Son, Jesus Christ. He addresses His Son as "God." To me, that's a good enough reason for me to consider Him to be God. The fact that God the Father is Jesus' God, does not mean that Jesus is not God, too.
I've got to go along with that.May said:
Scott1
Well-Known Member
Well...... I might as well try..... most seem to have made up their mind about this topic..... I hope at least one of you out there at least tries to understand the other side.... here goes:
The Divinity of the Father is an absolute... it is 100% and can not be altered.
There is not such thing as a "partial" God.
Jesus is either a man or God.... period.
I hate to use this analogy, but I've found in the past that it clears up what I mean.....
Think of Divinity as poison (horrible, right? just follow along)..... a poison so strong that just one particle dropped into the ocean would kill all living things worldwide. STRONG stuff.
Add a drop of that poison to a glass of water.....
Now, define that glass of water.
It is 99.999998% water. Is it water?
No..... it's poison, my friends.
Divinity applies the same principle.... you can't add a "drop" of it and not be GOD.
Church councils over 1500 years ago defined the relationship of divinity and humanity, but I don't expect anyone to care or to educate themselves about the true nature of Christ.... but just try to understand the nature of Divinity..... it is an absolute.... it is always 100%.
Christ was either God incarnate.... or an insane Jewish heretic.
Peace,
Scott
The Divinity of the Father is an absolute... it is 100% and can not be altered.
There is not such thing as a "partial" God.
Jesus is either a man or God.... period.
I hate to use this analogy, but I've found in the past that it clears up what I mean.....
Think of Divinity as poison (horrible, right? just follow along)..... a poison so strong that just one particle dropped into the ocean would kill all living things worldwide. STRONG stuff.
Add a drop of that poison to a glass of water.....
Now, define that glass of water.
It is 99.999998% water. Is it water?
No..... it's poison, my friends.
Divinity applies the same principle.... you can't add a "drop" of it and not be GOD.
Church councils over 1500 years ago defined the relationship of divinity and humanity, but I don't expect anyone to care or to educate themselves about the true nature of Christ.... but just try to understand the nature of Divinity..... it is an absolute.... it is always 100%.
Christ was either God incarnate.... or an insane Jewish heretic.
Peace,
Scott
EnhancedSpirit
High Priestess
I have completely picked this thing apart for you guys. First we were all made in God's image. And these verses say that Jesus was born with the wisdom of being one with the lord. But he also faced the same adversities as all other men. If you saw my story, you know that Jesus was definitely a coffee bean. I found something very interesting.
In this verse
2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: The word 'it' is translated from a word that means:
to be a leader
He and God are one. But he is not God.
NetDoc, you and God are one, but you are not God.
NO*s, you and God are one, but you are not God.
Scott, you and God are one, but you are not God.
I am the place where God shines through,
He and I are one, not two. I am not God.
In this verse
2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: The word 'it' is translated from a word that means:
to be a leader
- to rule, command
- to have authority over
- a prince, of regal power, governor, viceroy, chief, leading as respects influence, controlling in counsel, overseers or leaders of the churches
He and God are one. But he is not God.
NetDoc, you and God are one, but you are not God.
NO*s, you and God are one, but you are not God.
Scott, you and God are one, but you are not God.
I am the place where God shines through,
He and I are one, not two. I am not God.
EnhancedSpirit
High Priestess
The word God is actually a very loose term in the bible. Often translating from a word that is a plural, meaning many gods. When Jesus is refered to as God, this is a sloppy translation. It's true definition is "God the Messiah", which is different than elohim, or jehovah, or theos.
Cordoba
Well-Known Member
Andy:
You're quite right.
Jesus son of Mary, peace be upon him, is not God.
He is human, born by a miracle from God (from a mother without a father), but that also does not make him the son of God.
God sent Jesus as a prophet to guide the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
I hope this post does not offend our Christian friends.
All the best.
You're quite right.
Jesus son of Mary, peace be upon him, is not God.
He is human, born by a miracle from God (from a mother without a father), but that also does not make him the son of God.
God sent Jesus as a prophet to guide the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
I hope this post does not offend our Christian friends.
All the best.
glasgowchick
Gives Glory to God !!!
Hi All, If Jesus is not God then I have a few questions..Please explain..
1 Why does the Apostle John say that Jesus was "....Calling God His own Father, making Himself Equal to God " [ John 5 :18 ]
2 Why is the phrase " Call on the name of the LORD [ Hebrew YHWH ie Psalms 116:4 ] used only of God on the OT, and translated into Greek in the LXX as Call apon the name of the Lord [ Greek KURIOUS ] Applied to JESUS in the NT [ 1Cor 1:2 ] if Jesus is not God in the flesh...
3 How can Jesus be Eternal [ Micah 5:1:2 ]
4 How can Jesus be the one who gives Eternal life [ John 10:27 -28 ]
5 How can HE be our only Lord and master [ Jude 4]
6 How can Jesus be called the mighty God [ Isa 9:6 ] if there is only one God in existence .[ Isa 44:6-8 45:5 ]
7 How can Jesus create ALL THINGS [ Col 1:16-17 ] Yet it is GOD that created All things by HIMSELF..[ Isa 44:24 ]
8 How was Jesus able to raise HIMSELF up from the dead. [ John 2:19-21 ].
9 Why did Jesus claim the Divine name " I AM " for Himself in John 8:58 see Exodus 3:14...
10 Then why is it that both the Father and the Son give life [ John 5:21]
11 Then why did Jesus bear witness of Himself [ John 8:18 14:6]
I have many more but I will stop here...I believe John 1:1 answers all to why He can do all these things.." The Word was God "....
1 Why does the Apostle John say that Jesus was "....Calling God His own Father, making Himself Equal to God " [ John 5 :18 ]
2 Why is the phrase " Call on the name of the LORD [ Hebrew YHWH ie Psalms 116:4 ] used only of God on the OT, and translated into Greek in the LXX as Call apon the name of the Lord [ Greek KURIOUS ] Applied to JESUS in the NT [ 1Cor 1:2 ] if Jesus is not God in the flesh...
3 How can Jesus be Eternal [ Micah 5:1:2 ]
4 How can Jesus be the one who gives Eternal life [ John 10:27 -28 ]
5 How can HE be our only Lord and master [ Jude 4]
6 How can Jesus be called the mighty God [ Isa 9:6 ] if there is only one God in existence .[ Isa 44:6-8 45:5 ]
7 How can Jesus create ALL THINGS [ Col 1:16-17 ] Yet it is GOD that created All things by HIMSELF..[ Isa 44:24 ]
8 How was Jesus able to raise HIMSELF up from the dead. [ John 2:19-21 ].
9 Why did Jesus claim the Divine name " I AM " for Himself in John 8:58 see Exodus 3:14...
10 Then why is it that both the Father and the Son give life [ John 5:21]
11 Then why did Jesus bear witness of Himself [ John 8:18 14:6]
I have many more but I will stop here...I believe John 1:1 answers all to why He can do all these things.." The Word was God "....
SportyAngel2oo6
Member
To fully understand how the bible does truly refer to Jesus as the son of God (and in the trinity you know that the son, father, and holy ghost are one essence), you have to understand the jewish culture at that time.When you are reading the bible, you may see something that, in our day and age, doesnt seem important or abnormal, but back then it was. For example, read this passage about Jesus talking to the Jews critizing him for working on the sabbath "...But he answered them, 'My Father is working, and I Myself am working.' For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because he not only was breaking the sabbath, but also was calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God." (John 5:16-18)
We might not see the connection but if we study the culture some you will see that Jews never referred to God as "my father" (unless is was my father in heaven) but rather "our father" because by saying mine Jesus claimed he was his true son.
Also, Jesus says "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30) which claims diety and oneness with God. The word "one" that is used in the greek does not mean one in person or purpose but rather one in essence and nature. after Jesus said this, the jews took up stones to stone him, which shows they understand what he really meant.
Jesus also claimed to have the power to forgive sins. You may say that you too can forgive people but it is not the same. In Judaism Only God can truly forgive people's sins.
Here are few other of Jesus' claims of diety... "If you knew Me, you would know my Father also" (John 8:19); "He who beholds me beholds the One who sent me." (John 12:45); "He who hates Me, hates My Father also." (John 15:23); "All may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him." (John 5:23) These references show that Jesus considered himself equal with God.
Lastly, When Jesus is before the high preist during his trial, he is asked "'Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?' And Jesus said, 'I am; and you shall see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.' And tearing his clothers, the high priest said, 'What further need do we have of witnesses? You have heard the blasphemy; how does it seem to you?' And they all condemned Him to be deserving of death." (Mark 14:60-64) So Jesus obviously claimed to be the Son of God, and in turn based on the trinity, the same essence of God. He was crucified for blasphemy and he was risen again in 3 days to show his mastery over death.
So in the Bible, which is a historal document, Jesus does claim to be God.
Jessica
We might not see the connection but if we study the culture some you will see that Jews never referred to God as "my father" (unless is was my father in heaven) but rather "our father" because by saying mine Jesus claimed he was his true son.
Also, Jesus says "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30) which claims diety and oneness with God. The word "one" that is used in the greek does not mean one in person or purpose but rather one in essence and nature. after Jesus said this, the jews took up stones to stone him, which shows they understand what he really meant.
Jesus also claimed to have the power to forgive sins. You may say that you too can forgive people but it is not the same. In Judaism Only God can truly forgive people's sins.
Here are few other of Jesus' claims of diety... "If you knew Me, you would know my Father also" (John 8:19); "He who beholds me beholds the One who sent me." (John 12:45); "He who hates Me, hates My Father also." (John 15:23); "All may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him." (John 5:23) These references show that Jesus considered himself equal with God.
Lastly, When Jesus is before the high preist during his trial, he is asked "'Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?' And Jesus said, 'I am; and you shall see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.' And tearing his clothers, the high priest said, 'What further need do we have of witnesses? You have heard the blasphemy; how does it seem to you?' And they all condemned Him to be deserving of death." (Mark 14:60-64) So Jesus obviously claimed to be the Son of God, and in turn based on the trinity, the same essence of God. He was crucified for blasphemy and he was risen again in 3 days to show his mastery over death.
So in the Bible, which is a historal document, Jesus does claim to be God.
Jessica
SportyAngel2oo6
Member
sorry for mispells lol deity*
true blood
Active Member
God does not get tired or hungry. Jesus did. Jesus set aside his own will in order to do the Father's will. God can not be tempted. Jesus was tempted in all things.
Jesus could forgive sins because God was in Christ reconciling the world.
The arguement is futile however because if one would ever meet Jesus it would be like meeting God.
Jesus could forgive sins because God was in Christ reconciling the world.
The arguement is futile however because if one would ever meet Jesus it would be like meeting God.
true blood
Active Member
Christ Jesus is the second Adam. The Scriptuures also indicate that God's will is a seperate and distinct will from Jesus Christ's. Matthew 26:39, 26:42, Luke 22:42, John 5:30 and Matthew 20:23 deomonstrate that Jesus Christ carried out his Father's will while putting his own wishes aside. According to the Word of God, God said Jesus Christ was His Son. Other witnesses proclaimed the same: John the Baptist, all the gospel writers, Simon Peter, Nathanael, the centurion, God's angles, the blind man, Martha, Philip, the Ethipian eunuch, Paul, the revilers and mockers at the cross, devil spirits, the high priest Caiaphas, disciples in the boat on Galilee, elders of the people, and others including Jesus Christ himself.
"One" is the Greek word hen, neuter, meaning one in purpose, not one person which would be heis, masculine. This is the climax of Jesus' claim of oneness with his Father, and this oneness is of purpose. Since the Greek word hen is used, not heis, then "one" does not mean "equal to" but signifies "unity of purpose" Consider an isosceles triangle, it has two angles which contain the exact same number of degrees. Even though equal, the angles are not identical.
John 14:28 and I Corinthians 11:3 indicate that God is superior to Jesus Christ.
Another difference between God and Jesus Christ regards that of knowledge. God is omniscient, but Jesus Christ knew only those things which he ascertained from his knowledge of the Scriptures and from the rest of the senses world, plus that which God revealed to him. Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
A son born into a family of a king has many of the same basic privileges as his father, but yet the king represents the greater of the two. The father is always greater than the son, but yet their privileges are many times equal because of the father's power and position to make them so. Further, God exhorts us "Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus." Jesus Christ thought it not robbery to be equal with God. So if we let these same thoughts be in us that Jesus Christ had, then we bring ourselves up to that level of equality as sons of God. We could say if questioned by Jesus as his disciples were, "But whom say ye that I am?" Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
"One" is the Greek word hen, neuter, meaning one in purpose, not one person which would be heis, masculine. This is the climax of Jesus' claim of oneness with his Father, and this oneness is of purpose. Since the Greek word hen is used, not heis, then "one" does not mean "equal to" but signifies "unity of purpose" Consider an isosceles triangle, it has two angles which contain the exact same number of degrees. Even though equal, the angles are not identical.
John 14:28 and I Corinthians 11:3 indicate that God is superior to Jesus Christ.
Another difference between God and Jesus Christ regards that of knowledge. God is omniscient, but Jesus Christ knew only those things which he ascertained from his knowledge of the Scriptures and from the rest of the senses world, plus that which God revealed to him. Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
A son born into a family of a king has many of the same basic privileges as his father, but yet the king represents the greater of the two. The father is always greater than the son, but yet their privileges are many times equal because of the father's power and position to make them so. Further, God exhorts us "Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus." Jesus Christ thought it not robbery to be equal with God. So if we let these same thoughts be in us that Jesus Christ had, then we bring ourselves up to that level of equality as sons of God. We could say if questioned by Jesus as his disciples were, "But whom say ye that I am?" Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Being ‘In the nature of God’ in no way means ‘IS GOD’… simple common-sense tells you that.Philippians 2:5. Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
This one passage is clear enough for me. Jesus is God incarnate, and that is right from the scriptures.
- ‘In the manner of God’
- ‘Like God’
- ‘Image of God’
There is an original, and there ARE those who can be any or all of the terms stated above. But none of them ARE the original.
Someone ‘filled with the glory of God’ is not God, either.
Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
So the CONTEXT in which you are calling humans, ‘Gods’, is that of JUDGES.
This is true.
But there are other contexts in which which even inanimate objects can be called ‘God/s’.
In humanity, in the angelic realm, a God is one who is a ‘Hero’(Heroic), Mighty, Majestic, Glorious in power and authority, Wise and is highly intelligent.
But the ONLY TRUE GOD is ALMIGHTY, MOST MAJESTIC, ALL WISDOM and COMPLETE IN INTELLIGENCE.
All of creation is made by God. Wisdom, sense, logic, and reality says that nothing can be AS GREAT as that from which it is made: Man and Angels can never be EQUAL to GOD who created them.
RabbiO
הרב יונה בן זכריה
This may be a new record on the forum - responding to a post made over 19 years ago!
Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
I think you will find the same questions and similar responses as in this POSTS from nearly 1800 years ago as well.
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