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Obama is not getting re-elected

J Bryson

Well-Known Member
If Obama was going to get any sort of stimulus package whatsoever passed, he had to deal with the egos, self-interest, and general venality of the House and Senate. This, sadly, meant that earmarks were going to be involved, and certain unnecessary tax breaks would be implemented. So yes, a good portion of the package is going to go towards projects that are less than useful in terms of economic growth. This is the price to pay for getting the necessary parts of the package included.

If you disagree with certain aspects of the package, then find out who was responsible for including what, and write to that Senator or Representative to express your disapproval. If this is your own elected official, then campaign and vote against that person in the next election.
 

Draka

Wonder Woman
If Obama was going to get any sort of stimulus package whatsoever passed, he had to deal with the egos, self-interest, and general venality of the House and Senate. This, sadly, meant that earmarks were going to be involved, and certain unnecessary tax breaks would be implemented. So yes, a good portion of the package is going to go towards projects that are less than useful in terms of economic growth. This is the price to pay for getting the necessary parts of the package included.

If you disagree with certain aspects of the package, then find out who was responsible for including what, and write to that Senator or Representative to express your disapproval. If this is your own elected official, then campaign and vote against that person in the next election.

Who the hell do you think you are coming in here and making sense?!? :eek: Don't you realize Obama is the anti-christ??? Oh..he's not? Go figure. :rolleyes:
 

The Voice of Reason

Doctor of Thinkology
He's proposing more spending than from the time the country was founded until his election.
followed by
I have provided facts, statistics and reasonable argument, and you have contributed insults without defending your own position.

You provide your interpretation of statistics, your "facts" are woefully twisted, and you present nothing approaching a "reasonable argument".

As evidence to support my position, in the first quote (shown above), you make the direct claim that Obama is proposing more spending than the accumulated total from the time the country was founded. I pointed out to you that his stimulus package (to which you were referring) is nowhere close to our national debt, which is as direct a rebuttal of your hyperbole filled rant as you can be provided. Even if you try to move the goalpost, and claim that you were referring to his recently submitted budget (which you clearly were not), the numbers are still horrendously skewed against you ($3 trillion to $11 trillion).

THAT is a defense of my position.

If you want to take offense at the tone of my posts, feel free to do so. I read your posts, and I see nothing but a regurgitation of rightwing talking points (the vast majority of which are pure rubbish). I call BS when I see it.

You make claims that the stimulus package is full of pork, yet you fail to mention even one piece of pork. That's not to say there isn't pork in the package - I'm sure that there is. I'm also sure that when you get done totaling up all of the pork that you find, it will be a miniscule percentage of the package.

I'll wait for you to list some projects that are pork, using your own definition. It is your claim - now support it with evidence.
 
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Frostbyte

Member
$44 million for construction, repair and improvements at US Department of Agriculture facilties
$209 million for work on deferred maintenance at Agricultural Research Service facilities
$245 million for maintaining and modernizing the IT system of the Farm Service Agency
$175 million to buy and restore floodplain easements for flood prevention
$50 million for “Watershed Rehabilitation”
$1.1 billion for rural community facilities direct loans
$2 billion for rural business and industry guaranteed loans
$2.7 billion for rural water and waste dispoal direct loans
$22.1 billion for rural housing insurance fund loans
$2.8 billion for loans to spur rural broadband
$150 million for emergency food assistance
$50 million for regional economic development commissions
$1 billion for “Periodic Censuses and Programs”
$350 million for State Broadband Data and Development Grants
$1.8 billion for Rural Broadband Deployment Grants
$1 billion for Rural Wireless Deployment Grants
$650 million for Digital-to-Analog Converter Box Program
$100 million for “Scientific and Technical Research and Services” at the National Institute of Standards And Technology
$30 million for necessary expenses of the “Hollings Manufacturing Extension Partnership”
$300 million for a competitive construction grant program for research science buildings
$400 million for “habitat restoration and mitigation activities” at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
$600 million for “accelerating satellite development and acquisition”
$140 million for “climate data modeling”
$3 billion for state and local law enforcement grants
$1 billion for “Community Oriented Policing Services”
$250 million for “accelerating the development of the tier 1 set of Earth science climate research missions recommended by the National Academies Decadal Survey.”
$50 million for repairs to NASA facilities from storm damage
$300 million for “Major Research Insrumentation program” (science)
$200 million for “academic research facilities modernization”
$100 million for “Education and Human Resources”
$400 million for “Major Research Equipment and Facilities Construction”
$4.5 billion to make military facilities more energy efficient
$1.5 billion for Army Operation and Maintenance fund
$624 million for Navy Operation and Maintenance
$128 million for Marine Corps Operation and Maintenance
$1.23 billion for Air Force Operation and Maintenance
$454 million to “Defense Health Program”
$110 million for Army Reserve Operation and Maintenance
$62 million for Navy Reserve Operation and Maintenance
$45 million for Marine Corps Reserve Operation and Maintenance
 

Frostbyte

Member
$14 million for Air Force Reserve Operation and Maintenance
$302 million for National Guard Operation and Maintenance
$29 million for Air National Guard Operation and Maintenance
$350 million for military energy research and development programs
$2 billion for Army Corps of Engineers “Construction”
$250 million for “Mississippi River and Tributaries”
$2.2 billion for Army Corps “Operation and Maintenance”
$25 million for an Army Corps “Regulatory Program”
$126 million for Interior Department “water reclamation and reuse projects”
$80 million for “rural water projects”
$18.5 billion for “Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy” research in the Department of Energy. That money includes:
$2 billion for development of advanced batteries
$800 million of that is for biomass research and $400 million for geothermal technologies
$1 billion in grants to “institutional entities for energy sustainability and efficiency”
$6.2 billion for the Weatherization Assistance Program
$3.5 billion for Energy Efficiency and Conservation Block Grants
$3.4 billion for state energy programs
$200 million for expenses to implement energy independence programs
$300 million for expenses to implement Energy efficient appliance rebate programs including the Energy Star program
$400 million for expenses to implement Alternative Fuel Vehicle and Infrastructure Grants to States and Local Governments
$1 billion for expenses necessary for advanced battery manufacturing
$4.5 billion to modernize the nation’s electricity grid
$1 billion for the Advanced Battery Loan Guarantee Program
$2.4 billion to demonstrate “carbon capture and sequestration technologies”
$400 million for the Advanced Research Projects Agency (Science)
$500 million for “Defense Environmental Cleanup”
$1 billion for construction and repair of border facilities and land ports of entry
$6 billion for energy efficiency projects on government buildings
$600 million to buy and lease government plug-in and alternative fuel vehicles
$426 million in small business loans
$100 million for “non-intrusive detection technology to be deployed at sea ports of entry
$150 million for repair and construction at land border ports of entry
$500 million for explosive detection systems for aviation security
$150 million for alteration or removal of obstructive bridges
$200 million for FEMA Emergency Food and Shelter program
$325 million for Interior Department road, bridge and trail repair projects
$300 million for road and bridge work in Wildlife Refuges and Fish Hatcheries
$1.7 billion for “critical deferred maintenance” in the National Park System
$200 million to revitalize the National Mall in Washington, D.C.
$100 million for National Park Service Centennial Challenge programs
 

Frostbyte

Member
$200 million for repair of U.S. Geological Survey facilities
$500 million for repair and replacement of schools, jails, roads, bridges, housing and more for Bureau of Indian Affairs
$800 million for Superfund programs
$200 million for leaking underground storage tank cleanup
$8.4 billion in “State and Tribal Assistance Grants”
$650 million in “Capital Improvement and Maintenance” at the Agriculture Dept.
$850 million for “Wildland Fire Management”
$550 million for Indian Health facilties
$150 million for deferred maintenance at the Smithsonian museums
$50 million in grants to fund “arts projects and activities which preserve jobs in the non-profit arts sector threatened by declines in philanthropic and other support during the current economic downturn” through the National Endowment for the Arts
$1.2 billion in grants to states for youth summer jobs programs and other activities
$1 billion for states in dislocated worker employment and training activities
$500 million for the dislocated workers assistance national reserve
$80 million for the enforcement of worker protection laws and regulations related to infrastructure and unemployment insurance investments
$300 million for “construction, rehabilitation and acquisition of Job Corps Centers”
$250 million for public health centers
$1 billion for renovation and repair of health centers
$600 million for nurse, physician and dentist training
$462 million for renovation work at the Centers for Disease Control
$1.5 billion for “National Center for Research Resources”
$500 million for “Buildlings and Facilties” at the National Institutes of Health in suburban Washington, D.C.
$700 million for “comparative effectiveness research” on prescription drugs
$1 billion for Low-Income Home Energy Assistance
$2 billion in Child Care and Development Block Grants for states
$1 billion for Head Start programs
$1.1 billion for Early Head Start programs
$100 million for Social Security research programs
$200 million for “Aging Services Programs”
$2 billion for “Office of the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology”
$430 million for public health/social services emergency funds
$2.3 billion for the Centers for Disease Control for a variety of programs
$5.5 billion in targeted education grants
$5.5 billion in “education finance incentive grants”
$2 billion in “school improvement grants”
$13.6 billion for Individuals with Disabilities Education Act
$250 million for statewide education data systems
$14 billion for school modernization, renovation and repair
$160 million for AmeriCorps grants
$400 million for the construction and costs to establish a new “National Computer Center” for the Social Security Administration
$500 million to improve processing of disability and retirement claims
$920 million for Army housing and child development centers
$350 million for Navy and Marine Corps housing and child development centers
$280 million in Air Force housing and child development centers
$3.75 billion in military hospital and surgery center construction
$140 million in Army National Guard construction projects
$70 million in Air National Guard construction projects
$100 million in Army Reserve construction projects
$30 million in Navy Reserve construction projects
$60 million in Air Force Reserve construction projects
$950 million for VA Medical Facilities
 

Frostbyte

Member
$50 million for repairs for military cemeteries
$120 million for a backup information management facility for the State Department
$98 million for National Cybersecurity Initiative
$3 billion for “Grants-in-Aid for Airports”
$300 million for Indian Reservation roads
$300 million for Amtrak capital needs
$800 million for national railroad assets or infrastructure repairs, upgrades
$5.4 billion in federal transit grants
$2 billion in infrastructure development for subways and commuter railways
$5 billion for public housing capital
$1 billion in competitive housing grants
$2.5 billion for energy efficiency upgrades in public housing
$500 million in Native American Housing Block Grants
$4.1 billion to help communities deal with foreclosed homes
$1.5 billion in homeless prevention activities
$79 billion in education funds for states
 

Frostbyte

Member
At the risk of posting some of this twice;



$50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts
The stimulus includes a tax credit toward the purchase of NEVs, which closely resemble golf carts in appearance.
The U.S. Coast Guard is getting $98 million for a "polar icebreaker."
$200 million to "design and furnish" the Department of Homeland Security headquarters.
$3.4 billion of the $787 billion will be spent on non-green energy technology
$50 billion to the nuclear power industry in the form of loan guarantees
(it's estimated that each job created by a nuclear power plant costs about $1.5 million)
$713,625 Woody Biomass at SUNY-ESF. Walsh and Schumer sponsors
$951,500 Sustainable Las Vegas. Berkeley and Reid sponsors.
$24,000 A+ for Abstinence. Specter is sponsor.
$300,000 Montana World Trade Center. Rehberg sponsor.
$950,000 Myrtle Beach International Trade and Convention Center. Graham sponsor.
$200,000 Oil Region Alliance. Peterson sponsor.
$190,000 Buffalo Bill Historical Center, Cody, WY for digitizing and editing the Cody collection. Barbara Cubin is the sponsor
$143,000 Las Vegas Natural History Museum, Las Vegas, NV, to expand natural history education programs. Sponsored by Harry Reid
$238,000 for the Polynesian Voyaging Society, Honolulu, HI, for educational programs. Sen. Daniel Inouye is the sponsor.
$381,000 for Jazz at Lincoln Center, New York, NY for music education programs. Jerrold Nadler is the sponsor.
200,000 For tatoo removal
2 Million for swine odor and manure management

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]$1 billion for Amtrak, which hasn’t earned a profit in four decades. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]$2 billion to help subsidize child care. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]$400 million for research into global warming. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]$2.4 billion for projects to demonstrate how carbon greenhouse gas can be safely removed from the atmosphere. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]$650 million for coupons to help consumers convert their TV sets from analog to digital, part of the digital TV conversion. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]$600 million to buy a new fleet of cars for federal employees and government departments. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]$75 million to fund programs to help people quit smoking.[/FONT]



[FONT=&quot]2.25 billion for national parks. This item has sparked calls for an investigation, because the chief lobbyist of the National Parks Association is the son of Rep. David R. Obey, D-Wisc. The $2,25 billion is about equal to the National Park Service’s entire annual budget. The Washington Times reports it is a threefold increase over what was originally proposed for parks in the stimulus bill. Obey is chairman of the House Appropriations Committee. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]$335 million for treatment and prevention of sexually transmitted diseases. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]$4.19 billion to stave off foreclosures via the Neighborhood Stabilization Program. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The bill allows nonprofits to compete with cities and states for $3.44 billion of the money, which means a substantial amount of it will be captured by ACORN, the controversial activist group currently under federal investigation for vote fraud. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Another $750 million would be exclusively reserved for nonprofits such as ACORN – meaning cities and states are barred from receiving that money. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]$44 million to renovate the headquarters building of the Agriculture Department. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]$32 billion for a “smart electricity grid to minimize waste. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]$87 billion of Medicaid funds, to aid states. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]$53.4 billion for science facilities, high speed Internet, and miscellaneous energy and environmental programs. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]$13 billion to repair and weatherize public housing, help the homeless, repair foreclosed homes. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]$20 billion for quicker depreciation and write-offs for equipment. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]$10.3 billion for tax credits to help families defray the cost of college tuition. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]$20 billion over five years for an expanded food stamp program. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]the stimulus package will add 32 new government programs at a cost of $136 billion. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Most media outlets are reporting the cost of the package at $819 billion. T[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]the Congressional Budget Office calculates that the interest on the debt generated by the bill’s spending will cost another $347.1 billion, making the total cost approximately $1.17 trillion. [/FONT]
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Even a cursory reading of those alleged "pork" projects reveals that many -- perhaps most -- would create jobs. Creating jobs is the purpose of the Stimulus Package. So, the list of "pork" seems to support the notion the Stimulus Package is at least somewhat on target.
 

The Voice of Reason

Doctor of Thinkology
Well Frosty, I can't say that I'm surprised. Not even dissapointed, since my expectations for you keep dropping with every post you make.

I was hoping that you would do some homework, going through the package by line items, and present us with the projects that you personally consider pork.

Then again, I guess it was too much to ask, that you would actually take the time to do the legwork, to either confirm that your statement was correct, or to challenge your own position, and modify your opinion.

I'll just give you a couple of line items that you listed, and perhaps you can tell me how they qualify as "pork". You might have to revisit the sites that you plagiarized in the first place, to see if they can tell you why you believe as you do.
$400 million for research into global warming - is this superfluous?
$200 million for leaking underground storage tank cleanup - should we simply let the groundwater become nonpotable?
$79 billion in education funds for states - would you prefer having an illiterate society?
$1.5 billion for “National Center for Research Resources” - my guess is that you have no idea what this group is, or what the funds will be used for - am I wrong?
$800 million for Superfund programs - obviously pork, since no one really minds living beside the Love Canal, in New York.

I could go on, but I hope that you get the picture.

You haven't done your homework, you simply repeated what you have heard, concerning the projects in this package. Instead of doing some research, you simply found a couple of rightwing sites, copied their work, pasted it here, and didn't even have the decency to give them credit for their work. That is commonly referred to as plagiarism.
 

Frostbyte

Member
$400 million for research into global warming - is this superfluous?

OKay, that gives jobs, maybe, to people that are already educated and can get jobs in the first place. It's not going to create many jobs. It will probably go to organizations that already have everyone they need. This is a spending project, which considering even Al Gore is backing away from many of his claims about Global Warming, is probably throwing money at a phantom.

$200 million for leaking underground storage tank cleanup - should we simply let the groundwater become nonpotable?
$79 billion in education funds for states - would you prefer having an illiterate society?
$1.5 billion for “National Center for Research Resources” - my guess is that you have no idea what this group is, or what the funds will be used for - am I wrong?
$800 million for Superfund programs - obviously pork, since no one really minds living beside the Love Canal, in New York.

Some of these things actually are worthy causes, but they're not stimulus. They should have been brought up in separate bills, and worked out by congress then. Too many things are being put under the guise of the stimulus bill. It's a spending bill. And considering not one legislator actually read it, we're basically just throwing money at problems. Rather than do things that would actually stimulate the economy, congress just put in every pet project and every organization clamoring for more money.

NCRR supports scientists and research...wow! that will help the thousands of factory workers that got laid off! They can go research human development!

Some of this things will create jobs, for about a week. What are those people supposed to do when they're done reseeding the national mall? When the government money dries up, they're out of work again.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
Obama's not, in any way, responsible for the econemy being in the condition it is. Frostbyte, do you honestly not think that all the money spent on this gratuitous war hasn't caused the econemy to decline? Especially concidering that Republicans didn't tax anyone to pay for these riducolous things we were spending money on, like the war, churches, (which is the reason white Christian conservatives voted for Bush) and the drug war. You reall'y cant see that?

If you can't, I pity your biased education.

I think you're wasting you breath. I remember a bunch of my UK colleagues were moaning about their taxes on payday, saying "You know we pay the highest taxes in all of Europe???" all indignant-like. "Where does it all go?" they wondered.

I said "War is expensive".

Then they all got quiet and awkward for a while, until eventually somebody said "It's all going into the MPs big fat salaries, that's where." and the conversation continued as if I'd never said a thing. Bizarre. But I suppose if you want to be a militant, pro-imperialist "fiscal conservative", bizarre is pretty much what you need.
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
You forgot the 2010 elections where we will put an end to the rubber stamp congress. :sleep:
Why didn't you put an end to it during the last EIGHT YEARS?
Why didn't "I"? You give me too much credit Mestemia. :yes:
Afraid to answer the question?
Are you ever going to actually answer the question Reverend Rick, or was this yet another hit and run drive by whine post?
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
Are you ever going to actually answer the question Reverend Rick, or was this yet another hit and run drive by whine post?

:jester3:

Because I do not have the power to put an end to anything Mestemia. Your Messiah has spent more money in 51 days than my guy did in eight years.
 
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