• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Obama is not getting re-elected

Mathematician

Reason, and reason again
Obama ignores the situation in the 1980's. In the 80's unemployment was greater, so were inflation, prime rates, and 30 yr mortgage rates. But either Obama is completely ignorant of this, or he chooses to leave it out. Why?

Because we got out of the 80's situation by using tax cuts, not by spending almost a trillion dollars and attempting to permanently increase the size of government. There is no historical evidence of a plan like Barack Obama's spending bill working.

Unemployment, homelessness, and poverty were at historic heights in the '80s - in terms of homelessness and unemployment the highest since the Great Depression. If you want to tout tax breaks as an alternative to Keynes be my guest, but I wouldn't use Reagan's administration as a prime example. Tax cuts do not guarantee an increase in economic performance. If Americans use that new money to pay off debt or sit on it, nothing happens.

U.S. Unemployment, 1960-Present
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Economy/images/unemployment-graph.gif

There is no historical evidence to support Obama's plan? That's a new one to most economists. Prior to the New Deal depressions occurred every 10-15 years. What do you think occurred in the '30s and '40s that made depressions a relic?

And 35% of the stimulus bill comes from tax reductions. http://houstonconservative.com/uploaded_images/stimpackage2-757620.jpg
 
Last edited:

Smoke

Done here.
The Republicans are going to nominate Nancy Pelosi? :D
It's always interesting talking to you, Rick, especially when I find myself sharing your opinions but knowing we arrived at them from entirely different directions. :D
 
Last edited:

The Voice of Reason

Doctor of Thinkology
... Down periods like this tend to happen every 20-30 years.

You mean "down periods like this happen every time the government practices deficit spending like a 14 year old girl with daddy's credit card".

Take a moment to reflect on which party espouses that to be the way to prosperity.
 

Draka

Wonder Woman
Sometimes I think these debates/conversations seem to quickly go the way of playground nonsense.

"Eww, stay away from those girls...they have cooties!"
"Billy picks his nose! Gross!"
"Christie is so stupid!"
"Go away Joey! No one likes you!"

Everyone blames everyone else for everything under the sun. It's always someone else's fault. The other person's ideas are always wrong. blah blah blah. It's no wonder I usually avoid these threads like the plague. :areyoucra
 

J Bryson

Well-Known Member
Sometimes I think these debates/conversations seem to quickly go the way of playground nonsense.

"Eww, stay away from those girls...they have cooties!"
"Billy picks his nose! Gross!"
"Christie is so stupid!"
"Go away Joey! No one likes you!"

Everyone blames everyone else for everything under the sun. It's always someone else's fault. The other person's ideas are always wrong. blah blah blah. It's no wonder I usually avoid these threads like the plague. :areyoucra

By staying out of them, you're lowering the content of the debate. Therefore, I blame you for the poor quality of the threads!
 

Draka

Wonder Woman
By staying out of them, you're lowering the content of the debate. Therefore, I blame you for the poor quality of the threads!

Because we all know that my contributions to any thread raise the quality of it immensely right? :rolleyes::p
 

Frostbyte

Member
You mean "down periods like this happen every time the government practices deficit spending like a 14 year old girl with daddy's credit card".

Deficit spending, you mean like spending 700 Billion dollars in wealth that won't actually be created for years? What do you call this? Some of this "stimulus" won't even take effect until 2010-11. And tell me, how do projects like new sod and swine odor research stimulate the economy? Barack Obama's budget plan is GIGANTIC

He's proposing more spending than from the time the country was founded until his election. This is deficit spending at it's worst.

You honestly don't know? We weren't in a recession then. We're in a recession now.

So, what was it? We had worse, well just about everything...and yet that wasn't a recession and this is?

The bill is probably too little too late, but it's a step in the right direction. As for no historical evidence, that's just false. We spent our way out of the Great Depression, for instance.

WW2 got us out of the great depression. FDR perpetuated the great depression, and unemployment never got below 10% during his terms, and yet he was re-elected. We didn't get out of the great depression through a stimulus bill. We got out of it when there was a demand for services. A demand for military spending and technology created jobs. A huge spending bill did not.
 

Frostbyte

Member
In reference to the original topic, he very well may not. If the economy is still poor in 2010, the democrats have basically written the hopeful republican's congressional campaigns. And if the economy has not made a very significant improvement by 2012 Obama will be out.
 

Frostbyte

Member
You honestly don't know? We weren't in a recession then. We're in a recession now.

And actually, he doesn't qualify he statements with "recession" either.

He says "this is the worst economic crisis since the great depression"

That is not true. Do you honestly think he just "forgot" about the 80's? And no one has informed him? Please...
 

The Voice of Reason

Doctor of Thinkology
Deficit spending, you mean like spending 700 Billion dollars in wealth that won't actually be created for years?
No - I mean deficit spending that created a national debt of over $10 TRILLION DOLLARS.

I know that it pains you to hear this - but that debt didn't accumulate in the 45 days since Obama took office.

I'll wait to hear you lay that off, as if Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II didn't really create that debt ...



He's proposing more spending than from the time the country was founded until his election. This is deficit spending at it's worst.
No. He isn't. Do a little homework, and then you can rejoin the conversation without embarrasing yourself. Our nation is over $10 trillion dollars in debt. That number is larger than $700 billion.


Basic math, and I honestly think that you can grasp it, with some quiet study time.

 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
WW2 got us out of the great depression. FDR perpetuated the great depression, and unemployment never got below 10% during his terms, and yet he was re-elected. We didn't get out of the great depression through a stimulus bill. We got out of it when there was a demand for services. A demand for military spending and technology created jobs. A huge spending bill did not.

A portion of Obama's Stimulus Bill will create demand --- not a big enough portion, but a portion. That's the kind of spending that gets you out of a recession -- the kind that creates demand. Unfortunately, the Bill is probably too little too late.

As for FDR, he failed to pursue a consistent policy of spending us out of the Depression -- until World War II came along and he was forced to spend the vast sums necessary. But even given his inconsistencies, some of his budgets -- the ones where he spent more and didn't raise taxes -- worked to alleviate the Depression a bit.

None of what I've said is radical -- it's the commonplace opinion of most economists and economic historians.
 

DarkMaster24

Active Member
Obama's not, in any way, responsible for the econemy being in the condition it is. Frostbyte, do you honestly not think that all the money spent on this gratuitous war hasn't caused the econemy to decline? Especially concidering that Republicans didn't tax anyone to pay for these riducolous things we were spending money on, like the war, churches, (which is the reason white Christian conservatives voted for Bush) and the drug war. You reall'y cant see that?

If you can't, I pity your biased education.
 

Frostbyte

Member
No - I mean deficit spending that created a national debt of over $10 TRILLION DOLLARS.

How is what Barack Obama and the left-wing doing anything different? This Congressional Recovery Action Program is full of insane projects that will do nothing to stimulate the economy. An ear-mark by any other name is still an ear-mark.
I know that it pains you to hear this - but that debt didn't accumulate in the 45 days since Obama took office.

I'll wait to hear you lay that off, as if Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II didn't really create that debt ...

No but the economy has responded poorly to Obama. If people really believed this was going to work and restore the economy, we would not see the huge plunges continuing everytime he talks about this plan he has, that wages war on investors and the wealthy.

What about the terrible economy that Reagan "inherited" from Jimmy Carter? The democrats are innocent? The Reagan tax cuts led to economic expansion for the next twenty years! Of course the Bush administration wasn't perfect, no administration is. It advanced the powers of the executive beyond what they should be, and the patriot act, while Ibelieve created in good intentions, violates the right to privacy. The Bush administration was not great, I'll give you that. But a few years tends to offer a significantly different view of presidents. Many are disliked and some hated as they leave, and years down the road things change, and they are viewed significantly better.


None of what I've said is radical -- it's the commonplace opinion of most economists and economic historians
.

Why then, are hundreds of economists opposing Obama's stimulus bill as "harmful to the economy in the long term" ? They've been opposing spending tactics since last year

Professors protest against stimulus bill | InsideVandy
http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/john.cochrane/research/Papers/mortgage_protest.htm
Obama's not, in any way, responsible for the econemy being in the condition it is. Frostbyte, do you honestly not think that all the money spent on this gratuitous war hasn't caused the econemy to decline? Especially concidering that Republicans didn't tax anyone to pay for these riducolous things we were spending money on, like the war, churches, (which is the reason white Christian conservatives voted for Bush) and the drug war. You reall'y cant see that?

If you can't, I pity your biased education.

No, he did not cause it, (oh, besides oppose regulation on Fannie and Freddie) but he has done NOTHING to help it. The economy continually drops in response to Obama's plans.

Our Troubled Economy Is a Response to Barack Obama's Policies - WSJ.com


Basic math, and I honestly think that you can grasp it, with some quiet study time.

You know, I really don't know if you realize this or not, but you have been nothing but insulting since you have participated in thesed debates. You refuse to engage in any kind of meaningful conversation, or anything even in the neighborhood of a respectful debate.

You have refused to acknowledge or legitametly discuss any point I have brought up, and repeat the same old tired lines upon defense. You do not take responsibility for any of the misdoings of the left or the democratic party. You have actually contributed very little intelectually. Your basic premise is "left is right right is wrong." and you repeat that tripe, as you so gracefully put it, over and over again.

I have provided facts, statistics and reasonable argument, and you have contributed insults without defending your own position.
 

Kcnorwood

Well-Known Member
Anyone who became president after Bush wasn't going to last but 4 years. There is so much to clean up & people's expections are so high that they are going to be dissapointed rather quickly. People are failing to realize that this is going to take time sadly no one wants to wait. They all want it now this very moment.
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
Anyone who became president after Bush wasn't going to last but 4 years. There is so much to clean up & people's expections are so high that they are going to be dissapointed rather quickly. People are failing to realize that this is going to take time sadly no one wants to wait. They all want it now this very moment.
As much as I hate to say it, I suspect you are right.
 
Top