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Heaven and Hell?

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Majikthise said:
To control peoples minds.
Would you say that is true of all societies which have had a concept of heaven and hell? I can recall off hand that the Japanese, the Hindus, and the Aztecs all had concepts of heaven and hell. In all cases, were these concepts invented to control peoples minds?
 
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Majikthise

Guest
Sunstone said:
Would you say that is true of all societies which have had a concept of heaven and hell? I can recall off hand that the Japanese, the Hindus, and the Aztecs all had concepts of heaven and hell. In all cases, were these concepts invented to control peoples minds?
Yes. What better way to coerse people into behaving as you see fit than to promise them eternal bliss for following and pain and suffering for independent thought? It's much more cost effective and less destructive physically than brute force. Concepts of heaven and hell may differ slightly from one religion to another but the basic premise is the same. Different cultures have different ideas of what is saintly and what is evil. If we were forced to eat dogs we would consider it hell, another culture might consider it heaven.:D
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
SOGFPP said:
Nothing like a loaded question..... hehe
I assume it's plausible that at least one of the many cultures which have had a concept of heaven and hell invented the concepts themselves. I'm wondering why anyone would invent such concepts.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Sunstone said:
Why did we invent heaven and hell?
I'm just curious as to why you're so convinced that we did. I'm not attempting to prove you wrong, but you ask the question as if the non-existence of heaven and hell is fact. So, I'd like to know how you can be sure they don't exist.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Katzpur said:
I'm just curious as to why you're so convinced that we did. I'm not attempting to prove you wrong, but you ask the question as if the non-existence of heaven and hell is fact. So, I'd like to know how you can be sure they don't exist.
You are assuming that I believe heaven and hell don't exist. Actually, I believe that they can neither be proven nor disproven to exist.

Why do I ask the question the way I ask it? The concepts of heaven and hell show up in many cultures, from Japan to Mezoamerica. I assume that not all of those concepts are divinely inspired, but rather that at least some of them are invented. My question is why did some societies invent the concepts of heaven and hell?
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Sunstone said:
You are assuming that I believe heaven and hell don't exist. Actually, I believe that they can neither be proven nor disproven to exist.

Why do I ask the question the way I ask it? The concepts of heaven and hell show up in many cultures, from Japan to Mezoamerica. I assume that not all of those concepts are divinely inspired, but rather that at least some of them are invented. My question is why did some societies invent the concepts of heaven and hell?
No, actually I'm assuming you don't believe in heaven and hell and consequently are convinced that the concept is manmade. I must not have explained myself very well.

Now that you mention it, I find the idea that the existence of heaven and hell is found in so many different cultures to be evidence that they actually do exist. Obviously, neither heaven nor hell can have all of the attributes each of these different groups believe them to have since every group understands the concept differently. But the fact that they all have this general belief in common indicates to me that they had a common source -- and that it was, at one time, entirely accurate. As various religions developed, the understanding of what heaven and hell are took on a number of variations. I don't know if I'm making any sense or not!
 

BUDDY

User of Aspercreme
Sunstone said:
Why did we invent heaven and hell?
I didn't, did you?:D

Seriously though, I think that the different cultures you are refering to did not make it up, but that they were divinely instructed on a place of either eternal comfort or eternal damnation. If it is plausable that God revealed himself and his plan to some cultures, then why not to the ones you mention as well. Or, do you think he just couldn't speak the language or something?:)
 
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Majikthise

Guest
Katzpur said:
Now that you mention it, I find the idea that the existence of heaven and hell is found in so many different cultures to be evidence that they actually do exist. QUOTE]

The beleif once held that the earth was flat was also found in most cultures at one time, as was the beleif that the sun circled the Earth.This was not evidence that these concepts were true.
 

Scott1

Well-Known Member
Majikthise said:
The beleif once held that the earth was flat was also found in most cultures at one time, as was the beleif that the sun circled the Earth.This was not evidence that these concepts were true.
There is a difference between viewing history as an element in divine revelation, and the limitations of science in a specific time period.
Your examples deal with the physical world, heaven and hell don't fall into that category.

Scott
 
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Majikthise

Guest
Will one physically feel the fires of hell burning away flesh, and heavens comfort?
 
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Majikthise

Guest
Well, when you get up there , tie a note to a rock or brick or something and let me know what it's like up there.;)

Gotta go for now,be back later.
 

Ronald

Well-Known Member
Hey! I've got a funny Bible, it says that death and hades are cast into the lake of fire. It says that the people saved out of this world will inhabit a new earth. The old earth is to be koshered by fire. While this is going on, those saved out of this world must be somewhere! How about Y H V H 's bossom!?
Like I said I've got a funny Bible, it never says anyone except the one who came down from heaven will go up to heaven! It leaves God to do, what God will do. Maybe more people should have a funny Bible, huh?
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I don't believe in the heaven/hell, bliss/punishment eternity.
I think the whole idea behind hell and satan was to scare people into church.
 
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Majikthise

Guest
Ronald said:
Hey! I've got a funny Bible, it says that death and hades are cast into the lake of fire. It says that the people saved out of this world will inhabit a new earth. The old earth is to be koshered by fire. While this is going on, those saved out of this world must be somewhere! How about Y H V H 's bossom!?
Like I said I've got a funny Bible, it never says anyone except the one who came down from heaven will go up to heaven! It leaves God to do, what God will do. Maybe more people should have a funny Bible, huh?
OOOH! I want one of those, I've read all my Archie comics.:areyoucra
 
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Majikthise

Guest
SOGFPP said:
There is a difference between viewing history as an element in divine revelation, and the limitations of science in a specific time period.
Your examples deal with the physical world, heaven and hell don't fall into that category.

Scott
The specious idea of heaven and hell affects the thoughts and actions of human beings thereby manifesting itself in the physical world.Hell is about fear,weakening the abilities of rational thought,making a mind more susceptible to control.Heaven is a reward that never has to actually be given.This promise has the same effect I conveyed conserning fear.Nice how it all ties together ,huh? The ability to control peoples minds is true Power.
 

oracle

Active Member
Sunstone said:
Why did we invent heaven and hell?
I think it originated from Zoroastrianism.

Katzpur said:
Now that you mention it, I find the idea that the existence of heaven and hell is found in so many different cultures to be evidence that they actually do exist.
Are you sure that the "evidence" you have conjured up is reliable?

The majority thought the Earth was flat. But they all proved to be wrong. Just because the majority believes in something doesn't change what is objectively true.

There is no concrete evidense for the existence of heaven or hell.

Sunstone said:
Would you say that is true of all societies which have had a concept of heaven and hell? I can recall off hand that the Japanese, the Hindus, and the Aztecs all had concepts of heaven and hell. In all cases, were these concepts invented to control peoples minds?
No, I'm sure that they generally believed in a heaven and a hell. No, it was not invented to control people's minds. We are born as manipulators, and most of the time when people manipulate others, they don't even realize thats what they're doing. We manipulate, in accordance with our emotional needs. To me, saying that it is mind control, is inaccurate. I think it's a little more complex than that.
 
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