The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

RemnanteK · Mar 4, 2009

" For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing--" Eccl.9:5

"Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going." Eccl.9:10

I also believe that when 'God" says there will be no more sin, he means NO MORE SIN.

But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD [shall be] as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away." Psalms 37:20

Revelation 21:1-4 (New International Version)

1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."

The way I see it, 'God' ends sin, and there is no "hell". Becasue if there is a "hell" I'm sure people would be "Dieing or mourning or crying or pain".

Hope this helps in some way.

Heneni · Mar 4, 2009

RemnanteK said:
" For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing--" Eccl.9:5

"Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going." Eccl.9:10

I also believe that when 'God" says there will be no more sin, he means NO MORE SIN.

But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD [shall be] as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away." Psalms 37:20

Revelation 21:1-4 (New International Version)

1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."

The way I see it, 'God' ends sin, and there is no "hell". Becasue if there is a "hell" I'm sure people would be "Dieing or mourning or crying or pain".

Hope this helps in some way.

The bible is full of references about what hell is like and that there will be weeping and grinding of teeth. Sounds a lot like earth. Where there is already weeping and grinding of teeth.

I dont believe that there is a hell beyond this earth, but that earth is hell. And also that on this earth there are two kingdoms operating simultaneously. One is temporary, the kingdom of the world and the other is permanent, the kingdom of god. If you are thrown into hell, you are thrown into the worldly system.

The bible also says that the false prophet and the beast will be captured and thrown into the lake of fire,including those whos name is not written in the book of life. The lake of fire i think could be one of three things.

1. The star (A lake of fire)
2. The belly of the earth - filled with sulphur, and where satan will be 'under our feet'.
3. A 'lake' where the presence of god burns upon the wicked.

But hell, just like earth, because it is earth, will be destroyed.

Heneni

mickiel · Mar 4, 2009

I am certainly happy to see that there are some who have not turned in their common sense for religious " Churchy" interpitations which have influenced humanity against their inherited right of Salvation. Concerning the bible, you just have to take Gods Characther as the ultimate revelation of his word, or you will get the wrong picture of Gods intentions. It can get confusing, and I understand that.

Take Malachi 4:1 in example." For behold, the day is comming, burning like a furnance, and all the arrogant and every evildoer will be Chaff, and that day is comming will set them ablaze, says the Lord, so that it will leave them neither root nor branch." There is no eternal punishing here. Chaff is worthless lightweight matter, or Ashes. It says they will burn and nothing will be left of them. This is a strong case against eternal punishment, but I do not believe in total anihilation either. But I could " Use" this scripture to prove that many just have it wrong.

God is called a " Consumming Fire", Isaiah 29:6, a power that wipes things out, OR, uses his Fire to bring about a death, then a ressurection from that consumption . 1John 3:15 clearly states that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. That must mean that no murderer will be in some eternal hell forever. Or that sin willnot be given eternity. God then will change the sinner, after he is destroyed, and give them a complettely new Life, which is the essence of being born again. Psalms 103:8, God is compassionate, gracious and full of Loving kindness." This is what will cancel out eternal hell, and save sinners, but its all about knowing Gods characther.

God will punish, but it will be a quick punishment,. 2 Pet. 2:9, it reveals a punishMENT, not a punishING. PunishING is continual. The very reason God sent Jesus was to be a WORLD savior, 1John 4:14. When the bible uses the term " World", it mostly is refering to unbelieving sinners, not righteous believers. It also means " Everyone", the whole world, or the earth, IS the Lords and the full range of humans on it.

And Jesus death was for the world, not just believers.

This is the real gospel.

Peace.

TheAceOfKnaves · Mar 4, 2009

mickiel said:
I am certainly happy to see that there are some who have not turned in their common sense for religious " Churchy" interpitations which have influenced humanity against their inherited right of Salvation. Concerning the bible, you just have to take Gods Characther as the ultimate revelation of his word, or you will get the wrong picture of Gods intentions. It can get confusing, and I understand that.

Take Malachi 4:1 in example." For behold, the day is comming, burning like a furnance, and all the arrogant and every evildoer will be Chaff, and that day is comming will set them ablaze, says the Lord, so that it will leave them neither root nor branch." There is no eternal punishing here. Chaff is worthless lightweight matter, or Ashes. It says they will burn and nothing will be left of them. This is a strong case against eternal punishment, but I do not believe in total anihilation either. But I could " Use" this scripture to prove that many just have it wrong.

God is called a " Consumming Fire", Isaiah 29:6, a power that wipes things out, OR, uses his Fire to bring about a death, then a ressurection from that consumption . 1John 3:15 clearly states that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. That must mean that no murderer will be in some eternal hell forever. Or that sin willnot be given eternity. God then will change the sinner, after he is destroyed, and give them a complettely new Life, which is the essence of being born again. Psalms 103:8, God is compassionate, gracious and full of Loving kindness." This is what will cancel out eternal hell, and save sinners, but its all about knowing Gods characther.

God will punish, but it will be a quick punishment,. 2 Pet. 2:9, it reveals a punishMENT, not a punishING. PunishING is continual. The very reason God sent Jesus was to be a WORLD savior, 1John 4:14. When the bible uses the term " World", it mostly is refering to unbelieving sinners, not righteous believers. It also means " Everyone", the whole world, or the earth, IS the Lords and the full range of humans on it.

And Jesus death was for the world, not just believers.

This is the real gospel.

Peace.

According to these verses, and your interpretation of them, then the eternal punishment is destruction. There is no statement of redemption in these verses, and destruction is pretty eternal, I'd say. It seems pretty terrible too, eternal annihilation. If you believe these verses, then Hell is nonexistence. But thereis Hell.

J Bryson · Mar 4, 2009

True, but it's not like you're constantly getting tortured, which is a bit of a plus as far as I'm concerned.

mickiel · Mar 4, 2009

Gods anger is not eternal, in order for him to create an eternal hell, then his anger must be eternal itself. God is not going to make an eternal monument to sin, which is what hell would be, a constant reminder of sin and defeat of his plan of human salvation. Jeremiah 23: 19-20, shows that God is angry at SIN, not sinners. His anger willnot turn back UNTIL he has performed and carried out " The Purposes of his Heart." His heart desires that all men be saved, that is his purpose, 1Tim.2:4.

God himself in Isaiah 57:16;" For I willNOT contend forever, neither will I always be angry, for the Spirit would grow faint in me." Eternal hell requires him to always be angry at sin, thus he would erect a monument of his anger, and give it eternity.

These are Gods own words, why should I believe a Christians words?

Peace.

TheAceOfKnaves · Mar 5, 2009

mickiel said:
Gods anger is not eternal, in order for him to create an eternal hell, then his anger must be eternal itself. God is not going to make an eternal monument to sin, which is what hell would be, a constant reminder of sin and defeat of his plan of human salvation. Jeremiah 23: 19-20, shows that God is angry at SIN, not sinners. His anger willnot turn back UNTIL he has performed and carried out " The Purposes of his Heart." His heart desires that all men be saved, that is his purpose, 1Tim.2:4.

God himself in Isaiah 57:16;" For I willNOT contend forever, neither will I always be angry, for the Spirit would grow faint in me." Eternal hell requires him to always be angry at sin, thus he would erect a monument of his anger, and give it eternity.

These are Gods own words, why should I believe a Christians words?

Peace.

Where in the (place you do not believe exists) are you getting God's hatred of sin, not sinners, from the Jeremiah passage? The passage itself states that the Lord's wrath will come "down on the heads of the wicked". And besides, just because there is a monument to anger doesn't mean that God would still be angry. The Pyramids of Egypt still exist, but we no longer believe that it is religiously necessary for our kings and wealthy to be buried there.

mickiel · Mar 5, 2009

The real God is described in Psalms 103:8-9;" The Lord is Compassionate and Gracious ( two very good reasons why hell does not exist) , slow to anger and abounding in Lovingkindness,( yet another reason hell does not exist).

He willNOT ALWAYS strive with us ( meaning he willnot give eternity to anything rersulting in evil), Nor will he " Keep his anger forever." Before the creation of humans, God has never been angry, after our creation is finished, he will never become angry again. Its certain christians who are trying to give Gods anger eternity, it is they who are trying to give sinful humanity an existence in an eternal pain amphlifier. It is christians who have this unforgivable chip on their shoulders against sin.

God is not a Christian, and he thinks nothing like them. The sooner you can realize that, the less you will listen to them.

Peace.

TheAceOfKnaves · Mar 5, 2009

mickiel said:
The real God is described in Psalms 103:8-9;" The Lord is Compassionate and Gracious ( two very good reasons why hell does not exist) , slow to anger and abounding in Lovingkindness,( yet another reason hell does not exist).

He willNOT ALWAYS strive with us ( meaning he willnot give eternity to anything rersulting in evil), Nor will he " Keep his anger forever." Before the creation of humans, God has never been angry, after our creation is finished, he will never become angry again. Its certain christians who are trying to give Gods anger eternity, it is they who are trying to give sinful humanity an existence in an eternal pain amphlifier. It is christians who have this unforgivable chip on their shoulders against sin.

God is not a Christian, and he thinks nothing like them. The sooner you can realize that, the less you will listen to them.

Peace.

Just because God is compassionate and slow to anger does not mean that He can't be angry, nor that His anger has the potential to be eternal. As for the second statement you made, unless you can give contextual evidence for the "keep His anger forever" quote, your whole argument is pure opinion, which cannot be counted as evidence to support your point.

mickiel · Mar 5, 2009

TheAceOfKnaves said:
Just because God is compassionate and slow to anger does not mean that He can't be angry, nor that His anger has the potential to be eternal. As for the second statement you made, unless you can give contextual evidence for the "keep His anger forever" quote, your whole argument is pure opinion, which cannot be counted as evidence to support your point.

I am not trying to support any point I have made, I couldcareless what you think about my beliefs. I am not argueing, I am sharing. I am not offering evidence, I don't care what others think abouy my views. I already understand that christians are blind to scripture, which is why I am not trying to convince.

I only come for sharing my views.

Peace.

TheAceOfKnaves · Mar 5, 2009

mickiel said:
I am not trying to support any point I have made, I couldcareless what you think about my beliefs. I am not argueing, I am sharing. I am not offering evidence, I don't care what others think abouy my views. I already understand that christians are blind to scripture, which is why I am not trying to convince.

I only come for sharing my views.

Peace.

If you could care less about what people think about your beliefs, why do you continue to publically post them? This is purely out of curiosity, no hostility is intended.

mickiel · Mar 5, 2009

TheAceOfKnaves said:
If you could care less about what people think about your beliefs, why do you continue to publically post them? This is purely out of curiosity, no hostility is intended.

For the same reason that you post yours, I believe in what I am saying. If no one was interested in what I was saying, I would no longer post. But everywhere I post, there is always a very large amount of intrest.

Peace.

TheAceOfKnaves · Mar 6, 2009

mickiel said:
For the same reason that you post yours, I believe in what I am saying. If no one was interested in what I was saying, I would no longer post. But everywhere I post, there is always a very large amount of intrest.

Peace.

So I can reasonably assume that our intellectual joust has ended, given that you no longer wish to offer one side of the argument. And nobody likes one-sided arguments.

Ben Dhyan · Mar 6, 2009

TheAceOfKnaves said:
So I can reasonably assume that our intellectual joust has ended, given that you no longer wish to offer one side of the argument. And nobody likes one-sided arguments.

Since duality rules in the mind of unenlightened man, it's never over until the mind realizes the non-duality of the whole!!

mickiel · Mar 7, 2009

TheAceOfKnaves said:
So I can reasonably assume that our intellectual joust has ended, given that you no longer wish to offer one side of the argument. And nobody likes one-sided arguments.

It does not matter to me what you assume, from my experience with Christians, they will always assume things from " That religious world they hold in their minds", and it really does not matter what they are shown, which is why it no longer matters to me what happens when I speak with them.

I was not " Jousting" with you, nor have I used my intellect, I use only what I read in Gods word.

I don't mind you no longer speaking with me, I am left then in more peace.

Good journey to you.

Imagist · Mar 9, 2009

mickiel said:
King James was a prototype of modernday Christianitys thinking. JUst an spiritually off base king.

A king before his time, as Christians are. He welded great influence, as Christians do.

But he didnot hold Gods endorsement. Neither do Christians.

Peace.

As I noted, King James and Christians are irrelevant to this discussion. We're talking about YOU, and your contradictory beliefs that:

a) The bible is true.
b) God doesn't send people to hell (even though it says he does in the bible).

As I noted, the verses in question are not different in different translations.

Imagist · Mar 9, 2009

AK4 said:
This is not necessarily true. You have the king james and its "copy cats" and you ones like the concordant, rotherhams, youngs, and many others that wouldnt fall under the copy cat arm.

I wasn't talking about verses in general; I realize there are differences. I was talking about the verses that have been quoted earlier in this thread which reference god sending people to hell.

If you can prove that these verses don't say pretty much the same thing in most translations, be my guest. But you can't because they do.

Your reasoning that god wouldn't fry people made in his own image is bogus if the same book you're referencing specifically says that god WILL fry people.

Imagist · Mar 9, 2009

RemnanteK said:
" For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing--" Eccl.9:5

"Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going." Eccl.9:10

I also believe that when 'God" says there will be no more sin, he means NO MORE SIN.

But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD [shall be] as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away." Psalms 37:20

Revelation 21:1-4 (New International Version)

1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."

The way I see it, 'God' ends sin, and there is no "hell". Becasue if there is a "hell" I'm sure people would be "Dieing or mourning or crying or pain".

Hope this helps in some way.

So did you actually read these verses?

The first two have nothing to do with this discussion. No more sin doesn't mean that god won't burn people.

The verse from psalms specifically says that god will burn people.

And the verse from revelation is referring to the new Jerusalem (heaven). So you're saying that there will be no suffering. Duh. But in hell, there will be suffering.

Imagist · Mar 9, 2009

mickiel said:
Take Malachi 4:1 in example." For behold, the day is comming, burning like a furnance, and all the arrogant and every evildoer will be Chaff, and that day is comming will set them ablaze, says the Lord, so that it will leave them neither root nor branch." There is no eternal punishing here. Chaff is worthless lightweight matter, or Ashes. It says they will burn and nothing will be left of them. This is a strong case against eternal punishment, but I do not believe in total anihilation either. But I could " Use" this scripture to prove that many just have it wrong.

Nice argument. "The bible actually says that we will be totally annihilated, but I don't believe that either!"

God is called a " Consumming Fire", Isaiah 29:6, a power that wipes things out, OR, uses his Fire to bring about a death, then a ressurection from that consumption . 1John 3:15 clearly states that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. That must mean that no murderer will be in some eternal hell forever. Or that sin willnot be given eternity. God then will change the sinner, after he is destroyed, and give them a complettely new Life, which is the essence of being born again. Psalms 103:8, God is compassionate, gracious and full of Loving kindness." This is what will cancel out eternal hell, and save sinners, but its all about knowing Gods characther.

Yes, he won't get eternal life: hell is referred to as the second death. So again you aren't proving your point.

God will punish, but it will be a quick punishment,. 2 Pet. 2:9, it reveals a punishMENT, not a punishING. PunishING is continual. The very reason God sent Jesus was to be a WORLD savior, 1John 4:14. When the bible uses the term " World", it mostly is refering to unbelieving sinners, not righteous believers. It also means " Everyone", the whole world, or the earth, IS the Lords and the full range of humans on it.

And Jesus death was for the world, not just believers.

This is the real gospel.

Peace.

So you don't think that eternal punishment is eternal because the word is punishMENT? Give me a break.

You refuse to believe what your own bible says because it's unpleasant, but you need to get over it. It was your choice to believe in that nonsense; you've got to either accept the full consequences of that choice and believe the whole thing, or stop believing. You can't just pick and choose the parts of the bible you like.

herushura · Mar 9, 2009

the belief of Hell was plagiarized, the ancient, Hell only had a meaning in there Astrology.
Hell repressents the Sun path throught the Underword, where he is tempted by the serpant-devil.
and the other hell symbolized Scorpio, scorpio is the serpant or osiris/azazel who Rules Hell.

Satan does not rule hell, infact he is just a plagiarized demonized Fish/Corn god, Satan is
alway shown with a Tridant(3 prnged fork) a symbol for Fishing, Satan or dagon originally
was a god of Corn and fish and he held a tridant, the greek equivilent is posiedon, note poSIEDON, SDN/STN is Satan/siton another word for dagan, po means fathers, Satan is the father, Satan is also Saturn the god of corn or bread, Saturn can also be spelt as Satan.
Santa is also this Satan, but the good satan not the demonized version, the bringer of gifts(food). Satan does not rule underworld, but the under the sea,
in ancient times under the sea and underworld are the same thing

The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

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