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What say you? Would you save jesus?
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rojse
RF Addict
I can't help but recall a section in a pulp-SF book "The Man Who Folded Himself" (great book, by the way). The man has a time machine, and one of the many things he decides to do is go and save Jesus, and the world ends up completely different - the world is smaller, less technologically-advanced, much more backward socially, and no one speaks English. Whether this is the actual case or not is questionable, but the point about the crucifiction being a crucial point in history is made. The main character then has to go back to his past self, and convince himself not to save Jesus.
So, like the character in the book, I would not do this, because such an action would have quite an effect on society today, and I cannot anticipate whether said changes will be better or worse.
So, like the character in the book, I would not do this, because such an action would have quite an effect on society today, and I cannot anticipate whether said changes will be better or worse.
McBell
Resident Sourpuss
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J Bryson
Well-Known Member
I loved this book, and you are the only other person I've bumped into who has also read it.
I might save him...might. Have to go with Storm on whether or not he wants to be saved.
stacey bo bacey
oh no you di'int
What Storm said. Because didn't Jesus want to die for the people's sins? I know he prayed in the garden of gethsemane for it not to happen...if there were any other way, he'd take it. But he ultimately accepted it because he wanted to do god's will.
Is that right? My Christianity's a little rusty.
Is that right? My Christianity's a little rusty.
rojse
RF Addict
But there's also the changing the future aspect to consider. I don't know how my theoretical time machine works. It might create parallel universes for every action you take, as the time-travel belt in "The Man Who Folded Himself" did, which make paradoxes possible. Or it might change a single timeline, which means I might end up not being born, because the events resulting from Jesus's crucifiction lead to my parents being born.
That sounds like a conversation out of "The Big Bang theory."
gnomon
Well-Known Member
Would You Save Jesus From Murder, A Baffling Dilemma. | The Best Article Every day
That link should work.
Would I save Jesus?
No.
But I'd do a better job at hiding the body!
Booooooooooyah!!!!!!!!!!!!
I went there. Yeah! Whaddyagonnado?!
Of course, then we might have 2,000 years of paganism or Islam all around.
Oh wait.
That link should work.
Would I save Jesus?
No.
But I'd do a better job at hiding the body!
Booooooooooyah!!!!!!!!!!!!
I went there. Yeah! Whaddyagonnado?!
Of course, then we might have 2,000 years of paganism or Islam all around.
Oh wait.
ayani
member
ah... that is a great and moving question.
were i to see Him going to His death, i would want very much to save Him. had i know Him, talked with Him, watched His miraculous works, heard His words, and put my faith in Him, i do not doubt that my heart would be distressed and panicked to see Him walking towards a public execution on a cross.
yet had He not died, there would be no hope for eternal life, no way back to God, no forgiveness, and no new life in Him.
it's interesting that in the Gospels, His own disciples were watching, and stood at a distance. they all knew what was happening, as did the thousands who had heard Him, and seen Him. yet there was no mutiny. no rebellion to overpower the Roman guards on the way to the cross, rescue the Messiah, and spirit Him away to safety. it would have been possible, but it was not in God's plan. (Matthew 26:52-54)
were i to see Him going to His death, i would want very much to save Him. had i know Him, talked with Him, watched His miraculous works, heard His words, and put my faith in Him, i do not doubt that my heart would be distressed and panicked to see Him walking towards a public execution on a cross.
yet had He not died, there would be no hope for eternal life, no way back to God, no forgiveness, and no new life in Him.
it's interesting that in the Gospels, His own disciples were watching, and stood at a distance. they all knew what was happening, as did the thousands who had heard Him, and seen Him. yet there was no mutiny. no rebellion to overpower the Roman guards on the way to the cross, rescue the Messiah, and spirit Him away to safety. it would have been possible, but it was not in God's plan. (Matthew 26:52-54)
ayani
member
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep...The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my lifeonly to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father. (John 10:11,17-18)
yet therein is the mystery and joy of the resurrection. and the mystery of God's love incarnate, through which even death is conquered. Jesus lay down His own life- not out of despair or insanity, but out of love, and an understanding of His Father's plan.
He lay down His life to take it up again, that because He lives, we might live too. a new life as His born-again disciples while on this earth, and eternal life in His kingdom when we die.
and for those who say, understandably, that only a monstrous God would put the sins on an entire race on a single innocent man, remember that Jesus and the Father are One. they share in the same divine nature, person, and attributes. the God of heaven and earth also suffers and trembles as His Son dies on the cross. the crucifixion only makes sense if it is God Himself on the cross, suffering and giving of Himself out of love for us.
yet therein is the mystery and joy of the resurrection. and the mystery of God's love incarnate, through which even death is conquered. Jesus lay down His own life- not out of despair or insanity, but out of love, and an understanding of His Father's plan.
He lay down His life to take it up again, that because He lives, we might live too. a new life as His born-again disciples while on this earth, and eternal life in His kingdom when we die.
and for those who say, understandably, that only a monstrous God would put the sins on an entire race on a single innocent man, remember that Jesus and the Father are One. they share in the same divine nature, person, and attributes. the God of heaven and earth also suffers and trembles as His Son dies on the cross. the crucifixion only makes sense if it is God Himself on the cross, suffering and giving of Himself out of love for us.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
I would save him.
McBell
Resident Sourpuss
If Jesus is god and God is Jesus and God is all knowing, then where is the sacrifice?
If Jesus knew he was to be resurrected, what was sacrificed?
Smoke
Done here.
There's a argument to be made for leaving the past alone, even if we actually had the means to change it, but there are things I would change without hesitation if I could. An extreme example is the Holocaust, but there are other things, too. I'd prevent the Norman Conquest of England if I could, even knowing that it was part of the chain of events that made my birth possible.
If such theoretical compassion is impermissible, why act compassionately in the present? Why not convince ourselves that hunger, poverty, and infectious disease are all part of some great machine that will eventually produce, if not a better world, then at least a more manageable world?
I have to admit, I don't see the death of Jesus as all that momentous an event, historically. I think the historically significant thing is Paul's peculiar religious vision, and if it hadn't been for Jesus, it doesn't seem unlikely to me that Paul would have found another figure to hang his theology on. Regardless, I'd save Jesus if I could.
ayani
member
because a physical sacrifice was needed to atone, and reconcile. we needed a Savior we can see, and touch, and know, and love. hence God incarnate.
Father and Son both knew what would happen. yet the glory of the resurrection was for our benefit, as was the incarnation.
Father and Son both knew what would happen. yet the glory of the resurrection was for our benefit, as was the incarnation.
J Bryson
Well-Known Member
Butterfly effect: If I'm that far back in time, pretty much anything that I do is going to irrevocably alter history. Accidentally bumping into a single centurion will cause a slight change in his biological process, meaning that a different sperm cell of his meets his wife's egg, meaning that all of his descendants are different. Multiply that by everyone I end up coming into contact with.
rojse
RF Addict
But there are some things that are like butterflies affecting the future, and others like tornadoes.
J Bryson
Well-Known Member
And yet the butterfly effect says that a flap of the wings can eventually cause a tornado.
And all for the want of a horseshoe nail...
rojse
RF Addict
I know those analogies, but if a butterfly causes a tornado to occur, how many tornadoes might a tornado cause?