convincing secular people that following Satan is wrong

niamhwitch · Apr 14, 2005

According to you, therefore, only 2 Billion out of the above will go to heaven. Is that right ?

Actually (and this coming from my JW upbringing), only 144,000 will go to heaven and the rest of the good Christians will spend 1000 years on a second 'Paradise' after Armegeddon comes.

Of course I dont believe that (me not even being Christian, lol), and I know most Christians dont believe that either (apparently just the JWs)... but I think it actually says that in the bible (Revelations if I remember correctly). eh, oh well... thats off topic, lol.

Engyo · Apr 14, 2005

Dinogrrl said:
Technically, yes. If you do not follow the Christian God, you are following Satan. It's an either/or thing.

That's OK, we won't hold such beliefs against you.

"When one is in a state of delusion, one is considered a common mortal. When one is awakened to the truth, one is considered an enlightened one. There is no difference between the two, save for the absence of delusion." (paraphrasing Nichiren)

linwood · Apr 14, 2005

I agree with Niamhwitch. I don't think it's an either/or thing, regardless of arguments to the contrary.

I`d be inclined to give that argument to the contrary.

Every Christian i`ve ever known thinks it`s an either/or thing.
Except those who skirt the question by saying..

"It`s not for me to know."

Even if they think they do.

It`s a part of the doctrine, you can only be saved by accepteing Jesus as savior.
If you don`t, you burn.

reficul · Apr 14, 2005

Thanks Prima for that educated observation. The point that i wish to make is that if you wish to convince others that what they do is wrong, than you must come to a conclusion in your own heart about why you yourself beleive what you do. To understand your enemy before you understand yourself is the wrong way to wage a war against evil. Satan knows himself, and his followers have a long list of reasons of why they are not in the wrong. You must give yourself a solid ground of reason so to speak, as to why what you beleive is the one true faith. If there is one thing about my Christian aquaintances that angers me it is the fact that they do not base there religious feelings on fact. Now don't get me wrong, i am not speeking of physical facts alone. If something you beleive has affected your life and the lives of those around you so strongly that it is to the point that denial of its existance would be insanity than those feelings that you have about it are accountable as facts. Simple faith is not a fact. Following a religious faith just because your parents, a book, or a prophet says you should is a sin of stupidity in my eyes and the eyes of many people. It leads back to the "if your preacher jumped of a bridge..." way of thought. And to clear things up a little Prima, i mean no disrespect. You just need to learn to listen before you speak.

true blood · Apr 16, 2005

There will be one rapture for the, born-again believers,the Body of Christ, not facing any judgement. A resurrection and judgement for Israel, the bride of Christ. And a second resurrection and judgement for the just and unjust. And those born of the seed of the adversary will go to the lake of fire. 1 rapture and 2 resurrections. Either you will be placed in the New Jerusalem (believers), on the new earth (people just plain confused) or cast into the lake of fire (for the extremely evil people)

MARILYN MANSON · May 28, 2005

Alien_Youth said:
Hi All,

I just joined this forum and am having a rather heated discussion with someone who believes that it doesn't matter if you believe in Satan that you will go to heaven otherwise. I would appreciate some help in defending my faith and helping this person realize that if they do follow Satan they will go to the firey pit of Hell. I was baptized as a presbyterian but have only started seriously reading the bible and seriously going to church after giving my heart to Jesus 1 1/2 years ago, I recommited to my faith at an Acquire The Fire rally where I was able to see my friend give her heart to Jesus as well Any help anyone can give in relation to bible passages against satanism or just a strong faith in god would help a lot thanks very much God Bless you all

Alien Youth

TO HELL :help: YOU SAY????

blueman · May 28, 2005

t3gah said:
"Satan" isn't it's name. Hell is the grave where everyone is going until the resurrection.

That means your friend has no idea what they are talking about.

Hell isn't a grave, it is a true place of torment (Matthew 5:22, Luke 16:23 and 2 Peter 2:4) whose master is the prince of this earth (Satan, 2 Corinthians 11:14, Revelations 12:9, 20:5 and 20:7). As far as where followers of Christ go after death, reference 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 that references the Rapture. Those who are dead in Christ, there saved spirit is with the Lord 2 Corinthians 5:6-8). When the Lord returns, He will rapture the church with when our new bodies are united with our spirits and will reign with the Lord forever. May God continue to bless you. I woud recommend that you pray for your friend and since she is a fairly new Chrisitian, to encourage her to fellowship in Church consistently and attend Sunday School classes and Bible Study in an effort to be spritually fed and the opportunity to mature in her relationship with Christ. :jiggy:

blueman · May 28, 2005

niamhwitch said:
Actually (and this coming from my JW upbringing), only 144,000 will go to heaven and the rest of the good Christians will spend 1000 years on a second 'Paradise' after Armegeddon comes.

Of course I dont believe that (me not even being Christian, lol), and I know most Christians dont believe that either (apparently just the JWs)... but I think it actually says that in the bible (Revelations if I remember correctly). eh, oh well... thats off topic, lol.

Please be very specific in your claim when referencing the Bible. No where in the Bible in reference to salvation does Jesus or any of the apostles make reference to a select number of people entering Heaven. According to the Word of God, the Holy Bible, salvation is available to all, who accept Christ in their heart through faith, so your reference is certainly not based on any Biblical truth. Please reference 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 if you are so inclined. God Bless you. :jiggy:

blueman · May 28, 2005

reficul said:
Thanks Prima for that educated observation. The point that i wish to make is that if you wish to convince others that what they do is wrong, than you must come to a conclusion in your own heart about why you yourself beleive what you do. To understand your enemy before you understand yourself is the wrong way to wage a war against evil. Satan knows himself, and his followers have a long list of reasons of why they are not in the wrong. You must give yourself a solid ground of reason so to speak, as to why what you beleive is the one true faith. If there is one thing about my Christian aquaintances that angers me it is the fact that they do not base there religious feelings on fact. Now don't get me wrong, i am not speeking of physical facts alone. If something you beleive has affected your life and the lives of those around you so strongly that it is to the point that denial of its existance would be insanity than those feelings that you have about it are accountable as facts. Simple faith is not a fact. Following a religious faith just because your parents, a book, or a prophet says you should is a sin of stupidity in my eyes and the eyes of many people. It leads back to the "if your preacher jumped of a bridge..." way of thought. And to clear things up a little Prima, i mean no disrespect. You just need to learn to listen before you speak.

I believe you are implying that a belief system based on faith is shallow, but I would strongly disagree with you. Salvation is based on faith, not sight, not anything tangible that I can touch or see (Jesus Christ and God the Father), but the work of whom we as Christian believe so strongly is actviely engaged in our lives. God does speak and engage in a relationship with His people through the Bible, the Church (other believers in the body of Christ), life circumstances and through prayer. In John 20:29, when Jesus appeared to His disciples after His ressurection, he told them that you believe because you see, but blessed are those that have not seen, but yet believe. I do not need for God to tap me on my shoulder for me to believe. That does not represent a fantasy or fairy tale, but a real and personal relationship with God through His Son, Jesus Christ. The incarnation, cruxifiction and resurrection of Christ that salvation is based on is a matter of Biblical and world history that is very difficultto dispute or disprove. May God continue to bless you. :jiggy:

Quoth The Raven · May 28, 2005

michel said:
Christianity: 2 billion

Islam: 1.3 billion

Hinduism: 900 million

Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 850 million

Buddhism: 360 million

Chinese traditional religion: 225 million

primal-indigenous: 150 million

African Traditional & Diasporic: 95 million

Sikhism: 23 million

Juche: 19 million

Spiritism: 14 million

Judaism: 14 million

Baha'i: 6 million

Jainism: 4 million

Shinto: 4 million

Cao Dai: 3 million

Tenrikyo: 2.4 million

Neo-Paganism: 1 million

Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand

Rastafarianism: 700 thousand

Scientology: 600 thousand

Zoroastrianism: 150 thousand

According to you, therefore, only 2 Billion out of the above will go to heaven. Is that right ?

Yes, because the rest of them will be going to whatever afterlife they have.

Quoth The Raven · May 28, 2005

blueman said:
I believe you are implying that a belief system based on faith is shallow, but I would strongly disagree with you. Salvation is based on faith, not sight, not anything tangible that I can touch or see (Jesus Christ and God the Father), but the work of whom we as Christian believe so strongly is actviely engaged in our lives. God does speak and engage in a relationship with His people through the Bible, the Church (other believers in the body of Christ), life circumstances and through prayer. In John 20:29, when Jesus appeared to His disciples after His ressurection, he told them that you believe because you see, but blessed are those that have not seen, but yet believe. I do not need for God to tap me on my shoulder for me to believe. That does not represent a fantasy or fairy tale, but a real and personal relationship with God through His Son, Jesus Christ. The incarnation, cruxifiction and resurrection of Christ that salvation is based on is a matter of Biblical and world history that is very difficultto dispute or disprove. May God continue to bless you. :jiggy:

I think you may be stretching the whole 'world history' makes Jesus and his resurrection difficult to dispute or disprove thing a bit thin.

convincing secular people that following Satan is wrong

niamhwitch

Celtic Faery Wiccan )O(

Engyo

Prince of Dorkness!

linwood

Well-Known Member

reficul

New Member

true blood

Active Member

MARILYN MANSON

New Member

blueman

God's Warrior

blueman

God's Warrior

blueman

God's Warrior

Quoth The Raven

Half Arsed Muse

Quoth The Raven

Half Arsed Muse