• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

The Messiah

Darkness

Psychoanalyst/Marxist
I have been wondering why the followers of Judaism, do not believe Jesus Christ was the Messiah. Is it that he has not fulfilled the prophecies of the Hebrew Scripture? How will Judaists know when the their Messiah comes?

I was raised Christian (now and ex-Christian), so I do not know the Judaist side of the story.
 

Ody

Well-Known Member
I have been wondering why the followers of Judaism, do not believe Jesus Christ was the Messiah. Is it that he has not fulfilled the prophecies of the Hebrew Scripture?
Exactly.
How will Judaists know when the their Messiah comes?
We have our guidelines.

I was raised Christian (now and ex-Christian), so I do not know the Judaist side of the story.
No problem, we all start from somewhere in regards to knowledge...
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
The Messiah needs to rebuild the Temple, which according to my reckoning is a Temple of love and so made from nature (as was the garden of Eden).
The vine can be weaved to make a framework over things to supply a true temple of God. where every living thing can enter...that needs building south east of Jerusalem on the mound.
So Yeshua didn’t do that and so not messiah according to what must be done, yet then over a time period, Yeshua did what was fulfilled by him of the potters field prophecy in Zechariah 11 to the letter.

For people to be united then they have to see their differences to begin, and so for the Messiah to teach all about God it would also have to be done global.
As all will come to the house of the lord it is written, so allot of things didn’t and couldn’t get done at the time period Yeshua was in….soon after the abomination of desolation in Maccabees 4 took place where Israel, was massacred and forced to eat meat and drink wine. So that would have destroyed the temple in the process under the Roman army.
Also since they didn’t release Maccabees 3/4 to the world until 1977, explaining the abomination of desolation has taken place now, then it is a bit hard for the world to recognize it and want peace.
 

jewscout

Religious Zionist
Darkness said:
I have been wondering why the followers of Judaism, do not believe Jesus Christ was the Messiah. Is it that he has not fulfilled the prophecies of the Hebrew Scripture? How will Judaists know when the their Messiah comes?

I was raised Christian (now and ex-Christian), so I do not know the Judaist side of the story.

when the Moshiach comes he will do many things but we will not know he is the moshiach until he has accomplished his task.

jesus never did these things, ergo, he is not moshiach.
 

Darkness

Psychoanalyst/Marxist
Thank you for the assistance. :D

If it is not too much to ask, does anyone know of any web sites, that will explain the Jewish Messiah in more detail?
 
jewscout said:
when the Moshiach comes he will do many things but we will not know he is the moshiach until he has accomplished his task.

This would be one of the most beautiful statements that I've ever read if you had placed the word King before Moshiach.

jesus never did these things, ergo, he is not moshiach.

Is there only one Moshiach, or only one King Moshiach?
 

Delamere

Member
Now that Jerusalem is under Jewish control will the temple be rebuilt and will the sacrificial system be reinstated according to the Torah?
 

Elessar

Well-Known Member
Actually, Messianic Jews DO believe that Yeshua was the Messiah, but I will be first to admit we are a distinct minority, due to Christian suppression of the idea one can remain Jewish and be a messianist. But, yes, Jews, traditionally, and in general, do not believe he was the messiah because they do not believe he fulfilled the prophecies. Messianic Jews do. Simple as that, really.

Though I will not, I repeat, will NOT engage in argument over whether he was messiah or not in this thread.
 

NoahideHiker

Religious Headbanger
Now that Jerusalem is under Jewish control will the temple be rebuilt and will the sacrificial system be reinstated according to the Torah?

Not too sure if this is the time but, yes, when the Temple is rebuilt the sacrificial system will be in place again.
 

wmam

Active Member
Wow. Can one fathom the death rate of lambs, goats, bulls, rams, doves and pigeonsetc. etc. etc. when this occurs? Is PETA in the state of israel? :)
 

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
Wow. Can one fathom the death rate of lambs, goats, bulls, rams, doves and pigeonsetc. etc. etc. when this occurs? Is PETA in the state of israel? :)
As an Israeli I can tell you it is a pipe dream, its not an issue for casual Israelis.
The Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa mosque are on the holy mount compound, and Israel has willingly gave control of these sites to Islamic hands.
 

wmam

Active Member
As an Israeli I can tell you it is a pipe dream, its not an issue for casual Israelis.
The Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa mosque are on the holy mount compound, and Israel has willingly gave control of these sites to Islamic hands.

ß LOL, I was just being facetious. Sorry. Hey but with cloning, the statistics would improve greatly. :D
 

NoahideHiker

Religious Headbanger
Animal sacrifice is not the only sacrifice available nor even the preferred sacrifice. The Temple was like a huge food distribution center. A great portion of the meat and grain, ect. were given to the poor.
 

wmam

Active Member
All the sacrificing left as tithes which were of food only for the Levites which made these rich store houses of meat and grain possible to give to the poor. As far as A preferred sacrifice, I believe what was preffered is that we do not transgress the Torah. That would be most preferred I believe.
 

NoahideHiker

Religious Headbanger
All the sacrificing left as tithes which were of food only for the Levites which made these rich store houses of meat and grain possible to give to the poor. As far as A preferred sacrifice, I believe what was preffered is that we do not transgress the Torah. That would be most preferred I believe.

But of course. This is why the Law is a blessing. :shout
 

wmam

Active Member
But of course. This is why the Law is a blessing. :shout

Not trying to take this thread off topic so please forgive me with this off topic statement:

The Torah is a blessing and a curse. The Torah was not meant for the righteous.

If there be need to discuss this further then lets make a thread pertaining to such and leave this thread to the Topic at hand. :)
 

wmam

Active Member
Torah is not the issue of this thread.

Thank you Elessar, I agree.

Elessar, I am sure you have probably answered this at some point or another, and if you have please forgive me, but being a messianic jew i would like to know your personal, cause I know within the MJ's there are differences on the subject, of just what the Moshiach is? As flesh and blood born of a woman, is he deity? Was he before a deity? Did he pre-exist? Just what is he to you?

Edit: or should I ask this under the MJ's forum in the protestent section? ;)
 

Elessar

Well-Known Member
Well, there are many opinions. O believe in the divinity of Yeshua, but not in the triune nature of G-d (though I do not rule trinitarianism to be heretical, it is, in my belief, misguided). In my realm of belief, Yeshua is Hashem, in that Yeshua is merely the name attributed to G-d as he came within a human form in a human body. He was fully human, and fully a form of G-d. He is G-d, not a separate entity, so he did preexist. He came to teach on the Torah, to clarify it and to condemn certain aspects the oral tradition in Judaism, redacted in the Talmud (though not to reject it completely).

He, then, established himself as a tzadiki sacrifice, which can be used in the same form as the previous Temple sacrifices, to provide an automatic pass out of Geihinnom and into Paradise, much as the sin offerings did in the days of the Temple. No one is sinless except G-d alone, so only G-d could be the permanent sacrifice. The changes were, that non-Jews could now be provided with this automatic pass, and that this would provide a replacement for Jews in the soon-to-come time when sin sacrifice in the Temple would be impossible. However, Jews remain the people of G-d, and we are to continue upholding the Torah which G-d has given us, and to promote the Noachide Laws among the gentiles.

When covered by the permanent sacrifice, one will not enter into Geihinnom for punishment, and be allowed immediately into Paradise, just as anyone who was covered by a Temple sin sacrifice would have been in the days of the Temple. Someone who is not covered by the permanent sacrifice will enter into Geihinnom for a fair sentence based on a careful weighing out of their good deeds and their sins. After this, most souls will eventually be permitted into Paradise, only the most evil of souls and spirits (for example, the Adversary) being condemned to eternity in Geihinnom.

I believe, in the End of Days, G-d's human form, as Yeshua, will return to the Earth and rule over humanity in perfect righteousness. I believe firmly, as the Prophet wrote:

In the acharit-hayamim
the mountain of Hashem's house
will be established as the most important mountain.
It will be regarded more highly than the other hills,
and all the Goyim will stream there.
Many peoples will go and say,
"Come, let us go up to the mountain of Hashem,
to the house of the G-d of Ya'akov!
He will teach us about his ways,
and we will walk in his paths."
For out of Tziyon will go forth Torah,
the word of Hashem from Yerushalayim
He will judge between the nations
and arbitrate for many peoples.
Then they will hammer their swords into plowblades
and their spears into pruningknives;
nations will not raise swords at each other,
and they will no longer learn war.

Yesha'yahu 2:2-4
 
Top