• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Shemot (Exodus) 12:11 ... it is HaShem'S passover

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Jews throughout the world will soon be celebrating Pesach/Passover. With this in mind, I thought you might find the following discussion, introduced to me by my Rabbi, to be of some interest ...

The verse in question is Shemot (Exodus) 12:11, so let's see what it says:
JPS
And thus shall ye eat it: with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste--it is HaShem'S passover.
Stone Edition
So shall you eat it: your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand: you shall eat it in haste - it is a pesach-offering to Hashem.
Etz Hayim
This is how you shall eat it: your loins girded, your sandals on your feet, and your staff in your hand: you shall eat it hurriedly: it is a passover offering to the Lord.
Friedman
And you shall eat it like this: your hips clothed, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and you shall eat it in haste. It is YHWH's Passover.
Septuagint
And thus shall ye eat it: your loins girded, and your sandals on your feet, and your staves in your hands, and ye shall eat it in haste. It is a passover to the Lord.
NET Bible
And this is how you are to eat it—dressed to travel, your sandals on your feet, and your staff in your hand. You are to eat it in haste. It is the Passover of the Lord.
So? Well, does anyone find the phrase "It is YHWH's/HaShem'S Passover" odd or awkward? It turns out that the key term has been the subject of enquiry for some time. For example, in reference to the forms found in verse 11 and, later, verse 13:
  • NET Bible
    [re 12:11] The meaning of js^P# (pesah) is debated. (1) Some have tried to connect it to the Hebrew verb with the same radicals that means “to halt, leap, limp, stumble.” See 1 Kgs 18:21 where the word describes the priests of Baal cavorting around the altar; also the crippled child in 2 Sam 4:4. (2) Others connect it to the Akkadian passahu, which means “to appease, make soft, placate”; or (3) an Egyptian word to commemorate the harvest (see Segal, The Passover, 95-100). The verb occurs in Isa 31:5 with the connotation of “to protect”; Childs suggests that this was already influenced by the exodus tradition (B. S. Childs, Exodus, 183, n. 11). Whatever links there may or may not have been that show an etymology, in this passage it is describing Yahweh’s passing over or through.
    [re 12:13] The meaning of the verb is supplied in part from the near context of seeing the sign and omitting to destroy, as well as the verb at the start of verse 12 “pass through, by, over.” Isa 31:5 says, “As birds flying, so will Yahweh protect Jerusalem: he will protect and deliver, he will pass over and rescue.” The word does not occur enough times to enable one to develop a clear meaning. It is probably not the same word as “to limp” found in 1 Kgs 18:21, 26, unless there is a highly developed category of meaning there.
  • Etz Hayim
    [re 12:11] The Hebrew noun "pesah" has given rise to the English adjective "paschal," used to designate the Passover lamb, the Passover holiday, and Easter. Like the word "matzah," pesah is assumed in this narrative to be an immediately understandable term, so it too must have a history that predates the Exodus. The etymology of the word is uncertain, although it may be related to an Akkadian root meaning "to appease." Three traditions about the meaning of the stem have survived: "to have compassion," "to protect," and "to skip over" (see 12:13).
  • Friedman
    [re 12:13,23,27] halt. Hebrew pesah does not mean "to pass over." That wording has led people to images of the diety floating over houses. The verb means "to halt" or "to walk in a halting manner"; it can refer to limping (2 Sam 4:4). The noun form pisseah means a cripple (2 Sam 9:13). Admittedly, this verb occurs in Isaiah in a verse that pictures God defending Jerusalem "like birds flying" (31:5). Still, "halting" fits with the context here in Exodus, especially in 12:23, where it suggests a conception of the deity moving along through Egypt, spotting blood on the doorposts, and coming to an abrupt stop. God "halts on the threshold" and does not allow the destroying force to enter the house. "Passing over" the threshold does not really fit with this picture of blocking or preventing the destroyer.
To halt, to appease, to harvest, to passover: of these four, the idea of 'passing over' impresses me as the most passive and least appealing. The Isaiah 31:5 verse brings to mind, not birds passing over their nest, but hovering above (or circling) it to protect its contents from predation. To this extent I am sympathetic to Friedman.

But what, then, becomes of: "It is YHWH's/HaShem'S Passover"?

I find myself intrigued by Segal's reference to an Egyptian word commemorating the harvest, i.e.,

"It is YHWH's/HaShem'S Harvest"

The harvest was a very big deal back then, and it was only appropriate that YHWH/HaShem be allotted the first harvest of the new growing season. Furthermore, what could be more poetic and powerful than the harvest of the first-born at the hands of some Grim Reaper?

Is this the 'correct' translation. Probably not. But it demonstrates the nuance and the poetry and the mystery of the Book, and I, for one, will never view the term 'Passover' in quite the same way again. :)
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
NetDoc said:
I didn't say this referred to Jesus (though I think it does)... but I am wondering if this scripture might have meant the messiah (as I queried).
Since it says absolutely nothing about the coming of a messiah or, for that matter, any other future event, it seems unlikely. Similarly, it probably did not mean that Japanese automobiles tend to be a higher quality or that Chicago has the best pizza. But those hungry to justify Jesus or Toyota or Lou Malnati's will no doubt toss scholarship aside and hope for the best.

NetDoc said:
You Friendly Neighborhood Parasite...
Not really. I was referring to the author of gMat, know for his banal attempts to reverse engineer prophecy out of Jewish scripture. It truly is parasitic and, in my opinion, an insult to the Tanakh.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
NetDoc said:
But maybe it would sit better with you if it came from ...?
Perhaps, if we were talking about the Synoptics Problem. As it is, however, all I feel here is a mild disgust that you would polute the discussion with verses that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Pollute? Dear me! That was not my intent. I will erase the previous posts for you. Have a great day!
 

true blood

Active Member
Deut. 32.8 said:
Oy veh! Learn more; talk less. :banghead3
The term means teacher or more literally, master. John 20:16 ...Rabboni; which is to say, Master. Are you "Jewish" now? And the Hebrew noun translated "Passover" is pesach whereas the verb form is pasach. The Aramaic word is psska, from this Aramaic word, the Greeks derived the term pascha. There are various ways the word "Passover" is used in God's Word. One usage is in direct reference to the Passover lamb itself Exodus 12:21. A second usage pertains to the slaughtering of the Passover lamb on the 14th of Nisan. A third usage is in reference to the Passover meal eaten in the night of the beginning of the 15th. A fourth usage is in reference to the entire 7 day Feast of Unleavened Bread. This is a major usage, it is the figure of speech synecdoche in which an important part is used to stand for the whole. There is also an interesting reference by Josepphus stating " we keep a feast for eight days, which is called the feast of unleavened bread" (Josephus Antiquiteis of the Jews). This statement indicates that 1st century Judeans at times included the day of the Passover sacrifice with the seven-day Feast and referred to it as "a feast for eight days". Obviously there are various usages and should be understood and distinguished what is being deonoted in context. As for 12:11, the very first usage of the word, the context is the killing of the Passover lamb, the covering of the doorposts with the lamb's blood, and the eating of the Passover meal. The angel of death "passed over" all households who carried this command.
 

true blood

Active Member
Deut. 32.8 said:
I, for one, will never view the term 'Passover' in quite the same way again. :)
Ye must feel enlightened. Perhaps a rank above Servant in the eyes of your Rabbi. Initiate? Segal, The Hebrew Passover, attempts to clarify "Passover" by using the Hebrew word pesah to refer to the ceremonies which is the sacrifice and meal however it's not a matter of guessing which translation is correct but rather the usage of the word when it is essential to understanding the context. And the Passover has everything to do with the coming of the Messiah, however that is spiritually discerned. Exodus 12:21:...Draw out and take you a lamb according to your familes, and kill the passover." Clearly the Israelites were to kill the Passover lamb, not to kill a certain event, action, or time period. Leviticus 23:5: In the fourteenth of the month between the evenings is the Lord's passover." Passover here pertains to the slaughtering of the lamb. Luke 22:8-13 " And Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat. And they said unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare? And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a skin of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in. And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guest chamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples? And he shall shew you a larger upper room furnished: there make ready. And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover." The word Passover in the 8-13 scriptures refers to the Passover meal and the details associated with it. In context it must refer to more than just the lamb. Jesus sent them there to find a room to eat the Passover meal and to make it ready. Luke 22:1 "Now the feast of unleavened bread drew night, which is called the Passover." Here the entire feast is refered to as "the Passover". I Corinthians 5:7 Christ our Passover was sacrficed for us. You see in Egypt, the sprinkling of the blood of the lamb on the doorposts caused the "destroyer" to pass over them. The shedding of the lamb's blood was representative of the attonement for sin. By the shedding of blood the children of Israel were spared from the consequences of their sins. This truth is seen in Leviticus and Hebrews. "For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul." "And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission" The Temple and private homes were to be cleansed of all leaven and other contaminations that would defile Israel for the Feast. All priests and Levites went through a personal legal cleansing as did other participants. Preparations are found in Exodus, Numbers, II Chronicles, John. And with all of this background, if one looks specifically at Jesus Christ's final week of natural life he is absolutely marked out as God's Son.
 
Top