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Is it ok to "judge" others?

Lycan

Lycan

Preternatural
Christianity teaches to love your neighbors (including the ones you don't agree with) right?
And that their god will judge everyone when it is their time to be judged right? So why is it that alot of (not all) christians take their god's job unpon themselves and try to decide who is "worthy" and who is bound for hell?
 
Scuba Pete

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Is it "OK" to judge others...

We use this word for two distinct meanings.

1) To condemn, or enact a sentence. This is GOD's job and not ours.

2) To inspect or discern. God has commanded us to do this (Galations 5... Fruits of the Spirit)

God does not want us to condemn people to hell, but by inspecting their fruits, we can determine if they are headed there. As for "Why do most...", well I can't speak for most, I can only speak for myself. :D

Please consider me a humble fruit inspector.
 
Alien_Youth

Alien_Youth

Soldier in God's army
I totally agree with your point NetDoc. However I would like to bring up the point that in the bible does it not say "do not judge others so you will you not be judged"? . I just thought I would mention that.

God Bless,

Alien Youth
 
Scuba Pete

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Let's look at the entire passage:

Luke 6:36. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. 37 "Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38 Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." 39 He also told them this parable: "Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit? 40 A student is not above his teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like his teacher. 41 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 42 How can you say to your brother, `Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. 43 "No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. 44 Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers. .

You see, this is in reference to either condemning or forgiving. Check out the last sentence. As Mattew 7 put it "By their fruit you will know them..."
 
Lycan

Lycan

Preternatural
37 "Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38 Give, and it will be given to you.
Click to expand...


But from your own example, no metaphore, no beating around the bush, no need for interpretation, it says very clearly... "Do not judge"

Everything you posted that lead up to the verse you used to justify judgement is saying do not judge....
 
P

prosecutor

Member
The same Jesus that said "judge not and you shall not be judged" is the same Jesus that said, "Judge not according to appearance but judge righteous judgment" (John 7:24) Net Doc is right in that the word "judge" has more than one meaning. Also note if you condemn people for judging others, have you not "judged them for judging"?

Prosecutor
 
EnhancedSpirit

EnhancedSpirit

High Priestess
You see, this is in reference to either condemning or forgiving. Check out the last sentence. As Mattew 7 put it "By their fruit you will know them..."
Click to expand...
This says you will know them by their fruit. It says you can see that a thornbush is different than a grapevine. It does not say we are to judge whether the thornbush is going to hell while the grapevine goes to heaven. Is the thornbush evil because it bears no fruit? Does it not deserve the same respect as a fig tree? God loves the thornbush just as much, why shouldn't we. If we were to love the thornbush, we might see that it is a rose bush. But if we judge it to be evil and turn our back on it, we will never see the beauty it has to offer.

So to answer the question, it is not OK to judge others. You can only decide what is right or wrong FOR YOU.

I also agree that the word judge was misused in some tof the translation. It is one thing to be aware and another to pass judgement.
 
michel

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Lycan said:
But from your own example, no metaphore, no beating around the bush, no need for interpretation, it says very clearly... "Do not judge"

Everything you posted that lead up to the verse you used to justify judgement is saying do not judge....
Click to expand...
"Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers. . "
Lycan, surely you can see what NetDoc is saying.;)
 
Lycan

Lycan

Preternatural
You see, this is in reference to either condemning or forgiving.
Click to expand...
This one...

Lycan, surely you can see what NetDoc is saying.;)
Click to expand...
Yes, Michel I do see what Net is saying and if I sounded tacky in my response NetDoc, I am sorry, I am only asking out of curiosity :)

Also note if you condemn people for judging others, have you not "judged them for judging"?
Click to expand...
prosecutor, I do not subscribe to the bible and I am only discussing it's rules in regards to it's followers.
 
Melody

Melody

Well-Known Member
Lycan said:
Christianity teaches to love your neighbors (including the ones you don't agree with) right?
And that their god will judge everyone when it is their time to be judged right? So why is it that alot of (not all) christians take their god's job unpon themselves and try to decide who is "worthy" and who is bound for hell?
Click to expand...
I think it's because there is such a fine line between teaching someone the tenets of your faith (which is what evangelising is all about) and judging and some people just don't know how to stop from crossing that line.
 
P

prosecutor

Member
Lycan, if you don't follow the Bible, why should you be concerned about what goes on with its followers? I mean no offense but there is no way to answer your concerns since you reject the only authority that can deal with those concerns, the Bible itself.

Prosecutor
 
Lycan

Lycan

Preternatural
Lycan, if you don't follow the Bible, why should you be concerned about what goes on with its followers? I mean no offense but there is no way to answer your concerns since you reject the only authority that can deal with those concerns, the Bible itself.
Click to expand...

I am curious... I did not deny the authority of the bible in regards to the christian faith, I am questioning why the bible says one thing and some christians do another. I am not tryint to be tacky and if I came off that way I am sorry.
 
D

Dr. Khan

Member
Lycan said:
I am curious... I did not deny the authority of the bible in regards to the christian faith, I am questioning why the bible says one thing and some christians do another. I am not tryint to be tacky and if I came off that way I am sorry.
Click to expand...
I think the answer has to do with the knowledge of good and evil. When many of us live by this law rather than the law of the spirit of life, we condemn or sound like we condemn others by identifying their weaknesses and targeting them rather than provide the solution.
Which is to magnify Jesus.
 
D

Dr. Khan

Member
TranceAm said:
In line of that thought... We all know the stories of what happened to him, when he provided options... Or challenged the dogma of his times with options/solutions...
Click to expand...


His crucifuxion was and is the only option. It is the same for all of us who want to follow him.

We must deny ourselves take up our cross (his will is our cross) and follow him. This may include persecutions, imprisonment all sort of things. This recent Pope which is probable the best one they ever had is a product of the Soviet empire. The Kgb kept christians behind the iron curtain on their knees. In fact they lived on their knees and the iron curtain fell with out a shot.

So too could Saddam and the evil empire which rules the minds of men and women in nations under the influence of the opiate of the people. We need weapons which are as accurate with wisdom as those which were dropped and sent into bagdad.
 
T

true blood

Active Member
Luke 7:43 Jesus says "Thou hast judged rightly"

Luke 12:57 Jesus says "Ya, and why even of yourselfs judge ye not what is right?"

John 7:24 Jesus says "Judge not according to appearance but judge with righteous judgement"

I Corin 2:15-16 "But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him. But we have the mind of Christ"

Romans 6:13 "...Yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God." 16) Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves as servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" 18) Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness."

1John 2:29 "If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of Him." 3:10) "..whosoever doeth NOT righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."

Mat 7:1 "Judge not, that you may not be judged. For with the same judgment that you judge, you will be judged, and with the same measure with which you measure, it will be measured to you."

Deut 1:16 "And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him."

Proverbs 31:9 "Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy."

Isa 16:5 "And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness"

Clearly the record shows that those who avoid judging the behavior of others are taking the Lord's words out of context.
 
D

Dr. Khan

Member
TranceAm said:
Ok, lets make that statement "1"

This doesn't make sense to me.
I have not other reference to "opiate of the people" as Karl Marx'es and he meant religion with that. So who is the "evil empire"? And what do you mean by opiate? Money?

I though Christians didn't need weapons at all. (I could be wrong tho, afterall moral highground is multiple viewpoint interpretable :tsk: )
If the enemy kills/murders/slaughters Christians, heaven according to the promise is waiting. And that brings us back above what I named statement "1".

Now, can people that have no religious rules to abide by, judge that kind of contradictional to dogma behavior?
(And I am not even pointing to killing to get your pro-life stance thru.)
I apoligize, What I ment is that saddam and Islam could be brought down with out firing a shot. Islam being a religion which Karl Marks description (opiate) applys.


The bible says to us (christians) " the weapons of our warfare are not carnal (of this world; made with hands; of the flesh; of natural human means,) but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ. In another place it says for we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world against wicked spirits in high places.

We should exercise every right and ability to disable the enemy completely, through prayer. If you will notice in the book of Acts the beginning of the church started with prayer and they continued in prayer. We have much more to pray about because so many wicked spirits have entered the human race in every form. They have entered by and through deception, lies and our own ignorance to their devices. We have been asleep for 1700 years and only the last hundred have we began to wink out eyes. to even peep at what we have in Jesus' resurrection. We have too much power and we don't even know how to use it.
Click to expand...
 
P

prosecutor

Member
lycan, as to why "Christians do one thing while the Bible says another" is a good question. I don't know if this will answer your question but it is something like the raising of children. (My wife and I have brought up four.) You teach them one thing and often they will do another. Even God when talking about the nation of Israel said through the prophet Isaiah, " I have norished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me" (Isaiah 1:2). Jesus gave us some idea also concerning your question in the parable of the sower. (Luke 8:4-15) He talked about four kinds of responses to the word of God. One would not believe it at all; another would believe for a time but when troubles arose would fall away; another would be so involved in worldly matters to never bring forth fruit or any good and then another would be very productive. If you will note, the seed that was sown was the same in all four cases. It was the soil (heart) that was different. It seems to be that it is the type of commitment we have that determines to what degree we will abide faithful to the teachings of the Bible. I don't know if this is any help but I hope so.

Prosecutor
 
Scuba Pete

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Amen Prosecutor,

I have long believed that when all is said and done, there is ALWAYS a lot more said than done! People can talk a great game and never do what they promise.
 
P

prosecutor

Member
NetDoc, Solomon in the long ago said, "Most men will proclaim every one his own kindness (goodness); but a faithful man who can find." (Proverbs 20:6) I read one writer in commenting on this verse who wrote, "There seems to be always an abundance of those who are long on promise but short on performance."
Prosecutor
 
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