Is Jesus The Only Way To Heaven?

JesusIsTheWay · Apr 11, 2005

And yet, you still don't know of his actions. You only know what people said he did. Tao is acting constantly, it never stops. So yes, I do know my religion acts, and since everything that happens is tao, it is quite accurate.

How can you use that agruement? Your religion is the same way, it was written down by men right? And I do know my religion acts, the cross is the prime example.

And since a Taoist would honor humility more than power (Being that humility is more divine), Tao's effotrless actions would speak volumes louder than stories of your god.

Ever heard of The Last Supper? The disicples were agrueing over who is the greatest and Jesus got on His knees and washed His disiclpes feet. There are numerous references to humility, and they all say that you need to be humble. Yes humility is more divine, and do you think that the cross or any other action needed effort? There is more power in God's finger then all of creation.

I have helped it many times

How can you help the Holy Spirit??

Tao has been proven to me beyond a shadow of a doubt.

How? I have seen God's hand in every part of my life. I've expierenced the baptizism of the Holy Spirit. I've expierenced true worship. I've studied the Bible and clearly saw how true it really was. (would you like more examples?)

since Tao created your god, I have no problem with it.

No, God (Jehovah) created everything. There is only one true God.

The spirit world is very complicated, and the bible doesn't come close to explaining it accurately. But thats alright, that's not the reason it was written for.

Have you ever read the entire Bible?

All spirits are aspects of Tao. I suppose I should tell you something that will better help you understand... My soul is not completely human. The other part of my soul is a spirit that is constantly working in the spirit world. Half of my soul is very similar to your holy spirit. I'm sure you won't believe that, but it's true. We just have different jobs. My job in the spirit world changes from time to time, but at once I did help your holy spirit. The holy spirit is simply a spirit that connects the physical to the spiritual, and helps with our morality. If you have ever helped someone with their spirituality and morality, you have indeed helped the holy spirit. I just did it on a spiritual level. Now my job deals with death. (Sucks I know.) But whenever an entity dies, It is my job to change the energy. That is just what we do. But that is simplifying it dramatically. It is more like, I let the energy change through me naturally so that it is completed. Its hard to explain. The spirit world is very complicated, and the bible doesn't come close to explaining it accurately. But thats alright, that's not the reason it was written for.

And if you would compare taoist though to christianity, yes your god was created by tao. Whether you believe this or not, if the two ideas are compared, that is the conclusion

Please reread this Master Vigil.

Have a good day/night everybody.
- David

Master Vigil · Apr 11, 2005

JesusIsTheWay said:
How can you use that agruement? Your religion is the same way, it was written down by men right? And I do know my religion acts, the cross is the prime example.

Lao Tzu wrote a book called the Tao Te Ching. But it states clearly that The True Tao cannot be talked about. No words come close. The Tao Te Ching cannot be equated with the bible.

Ever heard of The Last Supper? The disicples were agrueing over who is the greatest and Jesus got on His knees and washed His disiclpes feet. There are numerous references to humility, and they all say that you need to be humble. Yes humility is more divine, and do you think that the cross or any other action needed effort? There is more power in God's finger then all of creation.

Wonderful, but that still doesn't mean jesus was the only humble person, now does it.

How can you help the Holy Spirit??

Read carefully the post you want me to reread.

How? I have seen God's hand in every part of my life. I've expierenced the baptizism of the Holy Spirit. I've expierenced true worship. I've studied the Bible and clearly saw how true it really was. (would you like more examples?)

I have seen what many believe to be gods hand, and realize it is Tao. I have experienced the baptism of the holy spirit, and realized it was simply a work of a spirit. I have experienced true worship, and it was in the woods. I have studied the bible and clearly saw how false it really was. And here's more. I have worked with Lupercus, Bastet, and countless other high level spirits. I have worked with tree spirits, animal spirits, and your holy spirit. And I have learned alot from them that is shown to be accurate in taoist though. Would you like more examples?

No, God (Jehovah) created everything. There is only one true God.

Your opinion, in which you're entitled to. You are also entitled to be wrong as well.

Have you ever read the entire Bible?

Yes I have, Have you ever experienced the spirit world?

Please reread this Master Vigil.

Perhaps you should heed your own advice.

Lee · Apr 11, 2005

JesusIsTheWay said:
Personally, I believe so. What do you think?

- David

Jesus is one of the paths to God. Just one of them, though.

- Lee

Melody · Apr 11, 2005

Master Vigil said:
All spirits are aspects of Tao. I suppose I should tell you something that will better help you understand... My soul is not completely human. The other part of my soul is a spirit that is constantly working in the spirit world. Half of my soul is very similar to your holy spirit. I'm sure you won't believe that, but it's true. We just have different jobs. My job in the spirit world changes from time to time, but at once I did help your holy spirit. The holy spirit is simply a spirit that connects the physical to the spiritual, and helps with our morality.

No, the Holy Spirit is not *simply* anything. The Holy Spirit is God. If your holy spirit was simply a spirit, then I reiterate that it is misleading you.

However, I'm not going to belabor the point since neither of us can prove anything to the other.

Doc · Apr 11, 2005

Hmm...Well I believe in Jesus and the Holy Spirit and his ressurection and his teachings, but I also feel connected to many other religions.

I am trying to understand though how Jesus can be the only way! And ONLY those who accept him will be granted salvation. This can almost seem like a dangerous statement to me.

Does it mean that the Nazi who was Christian and is sorry for his sins enters Paradise? But the Jew who was tortured, gased, and burned, still believing in God, not accepting Christ, would burn in the fiery pits of hell?

__________A guy from the show Faith under Fire

This seems illogical and very cruel think to do for the Almighty and All-Loving God.

By the way, I know several Jewish people, including a teacher, who are some of the nicest people I have met.

EnhancedSpirit · Apr 11, 2005

I believe that what Master Vigil is trying to explain is that what we have defined as God-is actually way bigger than we could ever comprehend. Master Vigil knows that Christians have been brought up to recognize certain aspects of G*d, as other religions were brought up to recognize other aspects. What the Master calls Tao, is the sum of all God's parts. It is a word, just a word made by man. A physical word trying desperately to describe the one source that unites us all. So is God, a word we try desperately to use to describe the same one source that unites us all.

andyjamal · Apr 11, 2005

roli said:
roli said:

Jesus is the only way to righteousness and holiness,justification,

Click to expand...

There are many people who are very righteous, holy, and just, by anyone's standards (including Jesus's), who have not accepted Jesus as the Christ. This is indisputable by anyone who is not blinded by insane prejudice. Yet I don't believe the Bible is false; therefore the only sensible conclusion must be that Spirit of Christ has been and will be manifest beyond the confines of Jesus of Nazareth, and any interpretation of the Bible that leads one to believe otherwise is a false interpretation. For the purpose of religion is to unite the hearts of men. Any teaching that divides people and causes contention such as we can plainly see in these forums does not emanate from the true religion of God.

robtex · Apr 11, 2005

All right all right...so the question is Jesus is the only way to get into heaven. What does that theory have going for it?

1) a book with the theory of its existance written out in it.

what does the theory have not going for it:

1) Heaven..location unknown.
2) description vague...no know what it looks like
3) Jesus...ain't been around in a while to fill anyone in and when he was here didn't write anything himself.
4) Lack of verification.nobody been to heaven and back to verifty its existance.

Man if this is a scavenger hunt its a tough game. We got a set of instructions to an place that we don't know what it looks like, where it is and can't talk to anybody who has been there before. I live in Texas.....there are places that may or may not exist down here like that.....places so small they are not on maps but at least you hear about them from people who have been there and know which part of Texas they are in (central east west north south). Thse would be hard enough to find with that limited info. You got a place with nothing more specific than in the universe, don't know what it looks like so in theory you could see it and not know it by a tour guide who failed to write any specific instructions down and than just kinda failed to show up when it came time for others to ascend....ascend being the general theory its up in the sky somewhere.....

Being as it is up in the sky got any ideas on where to point the hubble?

Melody · Apr 11, 2005

Doc said:
I am trying to understand though how Jesus can be the only way! And ONLY those who accept him will be granted salvation. This can almost seem like a dangerous statement to me.

Really? In what way is my belief dangerous to you? If you don't want to believe it, then don't. Please don't use the current political situation in the U.S. as an example. Despite the wishes of Bush and the conservatives now in power, they don't stand a snowball's chance in hell of pushing through their particular brand of christian agenda. Our political system is pretty good at keeping the extremists from causing too much damage.

barnardpi said:
For the purpose of religion is to unite the hearts of men. Any teaching that divides people and causes contention such as we can plainly see in these forums does not emanate from the true religion of God.

Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man's foes will be those of his own household.
Matthew 10:34-35

That may be the belief of your religion....but it is not the purpose of my faith. The purpose of my faith is to be reconciled with God through the acceptance of Christ's sacrifice. Accept it or reject it...but be careful about belittling or ridiculing it. Otherwise you (and I'm not specifically speaking to the two I've quoted above) run the risk of being the very thing of which you accuse Christians (i.e. intolerance).

Scott1 · Apr 11, 2005

robtex said:
All right all right...so the question is Jesus is the only way to get into heaven. What does that theory have going for it?

Well, first and foremost..... what the heck about Jesus gets you into heaven? My ealier post was trying to get someone to clarify that, but it failed..... so, what does "Jesus is the only way to get into heaven" mean?

Must you have faith in Jesus, or does Jesus just get everyone in?
Faith in Jesus as Son of God?
Faith in the Resurection?
Faith in the Church of Christ?

What exactly does it mean?

As far as your observations on the "theory"....

1) a book with the theory of its existance written out in it.

The "book" was compiled by the Church and is based on the testimony and teachings of Jesus Christ and his followers. If you don't believe in the Jesus recorded in Scripture, then all other questions are meaningless.... if you do, well, it's pretty clear to me what heaven is and isn't.

1) Heaven..location unknown.
2) description vague...no not what it looks like
3) Jesus...ain't been around in a while to fill anyone in and when he was here didn't write anything himself.
4) Lack of verification.nobody been to heaven and back to verifty its existance.

1/2. Heaven is not in a physical location.... it is not "up in the sky"... to us as believers, heaven does not refer to a place but to God's majesty and his presence in the hearts of the just. Heaven, the Father's house, is the true homeland toward which we are heading and to which, already, we belong.
3.Faith in the Holy Spirit to guide the Church is enough for me.
4.The verification you are looking for, I see every day.... but I imagine some will never get the proof they are looking for.

Peace,
Scott

roli · Apr 11, 2005

Doc said:
Hmm....
I am trying to understand though how Jesus can be the only way! And ONLY those who accept him will be granted salvation. This can almost seem like a dangerous statement to me.
Does it mean that the Nazi who was Christian and is sorry for his sins enters Paradise? But the Jew who was tortured, gased, and burned, still believing in God, not accepting Christ, would burn in the fiery pits of hell?
__________A guy from the show Faith under Fire
This seems illogical and very cruel think to do for the Almighty and All-Loving God.
By the way, I know several Jewish people, including a teacher, who are some of the nicest people I have met.

This unfortunately is not the christians plan, but God's, because salvation or right standing with God is not based on whether a person is good but only if they are righteous. It does'nt matter how good a person it's a question of righteousness
Christ was the only perfect sinless one ,in order for a sacrifice to be satisfactory for God , to atone for sins it had to be pure,you or I are not and therefore could not atone for each other,no leader,guru, prophet (man )other teacher other then Jesus coulds pay for the sin debt.
He claims to be God's son, we either believe him or what others are saying and believing

Lee · Apr 11, 2005

barnardpi said:
There are many people who are very righteous, holy, and just, by anyone's standards (including Jesus's), who have not accepted Jesus as the Christ. This is indisputable by anyone who is not blinded by insane prejudice. Yet I don't believe the Bible is false; therefore the only sensible conclusion must be that Spirit of Christ has been and will be manifest beyond the confines of Jesus of Nazareth, and any interpretation of the Bible that leads one to believe otherwise is a false interpretation. For the purpose of religion is to unite the hearts of men. Any teaching that divides people and causes contention such as we can plainly see in these forums does not emanate from the true religion of God.

Click to expand...

Agreed.

angellous_evangellous · Apr 11, 2005

Master Vigil said:
And if you would compare taoist though to christianity, yes your god was created by tao. Whether you believe this or not, if the two ideas are compared, that is the conclusion.

However, this view is in direct contradiction to the Christian confession. You or anyone else is free to make their own conclusions about Christ, include Christinity in whatever version of the afterlife you care to construct - whatever give you your "spiritual goosebumps."

Christ taught that he was th only way to His Father - or participation in the afterlife with Him. He defined God as His Father, YHWH of the OT, Creator of the Universe and everything in it. The OT and NT is clear that God exists as Creator, and nothing Created Him. If you want what Jesus preaches, follow his teachings. If not, do what you want.

And for Pete's sake, have fun. We only get one life that we know of for sure.

Master Vigil · Apr 11, 2005

And for Pete's sake, have fun. We only get one life that we know of for sure.

That's what I'm talkin about!!!

And Melody, I don't expect you to believe what I have to say about your holy spirit. If you believed it, it would rock your faith. I don't really want to do that. I'm just telling you what constant work with the spirits over the course of 8 or so years have taught me. I mean, it's not like I just have feelings, or even visions or anything like that. What I do is on an constant, and intimate level. I live in the spirit world 24/7. I don't expect anyone to understand, why would I? I can just say 100% that I am not being misled, but I believe alot of christians are. But, like you said, there is no way to prove this. So I am finished debating it. You either believe what a low level spirit is telling you, or not. It's that simple.

Steve · Apr 11, 2005

barnardpi said:
There are many people who are very righteous, holy, and just, by anyone's standards (including Jesus's), who have not accepted Jesus as the Christ. This is indisputable by anyone who is not blinded by insane prejudice. Yet I don't believe the Bible is false;

Are you serious? Jesus's standard is perfection, blameless! He was the spotless lamb of God. So name a few of these people you refer too who dont need Gods forgiveness and rightousness befor they stand befor his judgement seat?
You think people will be judged by mankinds idea of righteousness, you should remember who the judge will be! Oh and since you agree that the bible isnt false you should read it.

He said to them, You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of men, but God knows your hearts. What is highly valued among men is detestable in God's sight. Luke 16:15

This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. Romans 3:22-26

barnardpi said:
therefore the only sensible conclusion must be that Spirit of Christ has been and will be manifest beyond the confines of Jesus of Nazareth, and any interpretation of the Bible that leads one to believe otherwise is a false interpretation.

No the only conclusion if you reject what Jesus and the bible plainly teach is to belive that "Spirit of Christ has been and will be manifest beyond the confines of Jesus of Nazareth" - you come to your conclusion not because you belive what the bible says but because you dont.

Jesus answered, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him. John 14:6-7
What about that verse isnt clear to you?

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16
This is what God did for you and me, gave his one and only son. Except what it says or dont, but dont twist it until it says somthing it dosnt and then claim you belive the bible.

Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. Isaiah 53:4-6
There has only been one all time sacrifice for our sin, Jesus's words just befor he died were "it is finished", God has done all he needed to do to reconcile Mankind to himself. Jesus then sent the Holy Spirit to mankind to guide them to the truth, to testify about Jesus, if they are truly willing to find out what the truth is.

"When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me. John 15:26

barnardpi said:
For the purpose of religion is to unite the hearts of men. Any teaching that divides people and causes contention such as we can plainly see in these forums does not emanate from the true religion of God.

Again your idea that "the purpose of religion is to unite the hearts of men" is not found in the bible. Read what you wrote and then read Jesus's own words.

Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven. Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughterinlaw against her motherinlaw a man's enemies will be the members of his own household. Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. He who receives you receives me, and he who receives me receives the one who sent me.
Mathew 10:32-40

Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. Mathew 10:21-22

Looks like the real teaching from God will indeed cause "causes contention such as we can plainly see". Do you think the apostles and various martyrs were stoned/tortured/imprisoned etc for teaching false doctrines? I think they spoke the truth and that truth hurts if you arnt willing to except it.

Quoth The Raven · Apr 12, 2005

Steve said:
Do you think the apostles and various martyrs were stoned/tortured/imprisoned etc for teaching false doctrines? I think they spoke the truth and that truth hurts if you arnt willing to accept it.

Bearing in mind that Christians don't have a monopoly on being murdered for their beliefs, I imagine from your statements you think that everyone who has ever been killed due to their religious doctrines was 100% correct in what they believed, regardless of whether it agreed with what YOU believe or not.
Does their truth hurt you?

Steve · Apr 12, 2005

lady_lazarus said:
Bearing in mind that Christians don't have a monopoly on being murdered for their beliefs, I imagine from your statements you think that everyone who has ever been killed due to their religious doctrines was 100% correct in what they believed, regardless of whether it agreed with what YOU believe or not.

Ah, my post was obviously refering to christian apostles and martyrs, those who stood up for what the bible actually says, i made this point to show that this is why these people suffered the way they did. Many people didnt like what they were hearing from the apostles etc, The point was to show the absurdity of this statement "Any teaching that divides people and causes contention such as we can plainly see in these forums does not emanate from the true religion of God." Made by someone who claims to belive the bible.

I certainly dont belive that everyone who "has ever been killed due to their religious doctrines was 100% correct ". When what i wrote is read in context it is clear that i was implying no such thing. So you can "imagine" as you put it, all you like, but try not to let your imagination get out of hand.

Quoth The Raven · Apr 12, 2005

Steve said:
I certainly dont belive that everyone who "has ever been killed due to their religious doctrines was 100% correct ". When what i wrote is read in context it is clear that i was implying no such thing. So you can "imagine" as you put it, all you like, but try not to let your imagination get out of hand.

My imagination is just fine, thanks. When I start believing that a heavily edited, contradictory and often mistranslated book is the unerring word of my diety and that no-one elses religion has any validity I might get a bit concerned about where my imagination is taking me, but for now it's all good.

angellous_evangellous · Apr 12, 2005

Let's just pass the peace pipe and get wasted.

No one really knows what happens at death, at least not in the scientifically verifiable sort of way. We have several choices at this point, but I think that is boils down to two choices: 1) make up something that makes us feel warm and fuzzy or 2) put our trust in someone else who either can convincingly demonstrate that what they say is correct or we feel warm and fuzzy by what they say.

The peace pipe should help ease both #1 and #2.

painted wolf · Apr 12, 2005

angellous said:
Let's just pass the peace pipe and get wasted.

not cool.. :tsk:

Individuals of all religions have been persicuted and died for thier faith.
Wovoka was killed by white authorities for preaching his religion as were many of his followers.
Heck our whole faith was outlawed by the US Government... if that isnt persicution I don't know what is... so much for freedom of religion.

We won back the right to practice our religion nearly a century later.

wa:do

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