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Cardinal Law

Melody

Melody

Well-Known Member
SOGFPP said:
I never met the man... so I can't judge his morality.

When you met him, and discussed at length his morality, ethics, and faith, what led you to believe his morals were lacking?

..... or were you just reading some newspaper quotes and judging another human being?

Thought so.:sarcastic
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Scott,

Was he not removed from his position in Boston because he moved pedophile priests to other parishes....knowing they were accused of molesting children?

Was this all made up by the media? And if so, why did the church remove him?

Not taking sides here as I haven't followed this, but if any of the above is true....
 
Scott1

Scott1

Well-Known Member
Melody said:
Not taking sides here as I haven't followed this, but if any of the above is true....
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I personally don't think he was a "good" leader.... and I believe his behavior was sinful.

That being said, I don't recall the thread starter posting anything positive about the Catholic faith, and sometimes I just get tired of the arrogant, holier than thou ranting that we sometimes get here. I don't discout the truth of his argument, I just object to demonizing a human being that I don't know personally (he has lived a life of 60+ years... this scandal, however horrible, does not define the man)...

Forgiveness= sometimes a curse of my faith.

Scott
 
Melody

Melody

Well-Known Member
SOGFPP said:
Forgiveness= sometimes a curse of my faith.
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Forgiveness is good...but higher standards are required of those in leadership. Since Cardinal Law cannot meet those standards, he should step down...or at the very least remove himself from public roles of leadership.

Titus 1:7
1 Timothy 3:2
 
robtex

robtex

Veteran Member
Melody said:
Forgiveness is good...but higher standards are required of those in leadership. Since Cardinal Law cannot meet those standards, he should step down...or at the very least remove himself from public roles of leadership.

Titus 1:7
1 Timothy 3:2
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Or maybe given the opportuntiy to right his wrong. I would be much more emphatic with the Catholic church if they made a stronger attempt to undo the damage they created. I would love it if some of the non-sex offenders like Law, for instance, would be given projects to help the community on behalf of the church, in the area of sex offenses. Like funding sex offender research (which is expensive) or sending in catholic volunteers for smaller tasks like clerking or records maintence at a state facility...or any number of projects that is external and a sign of goodwill. What has created so much of the anger and resentment is the church internalizing the obvious problem and not working in conjunction with the community. Law, if I am understanding, didn't commit any of the sex offences. He was the one who shuffled the ones who did around and impeded the crimminal investigations with his actions. As a non-sex offender and a human with feelings I bet he is harboring guilt over this on some level. Like Scott said, We don't know him but I am guessing that my prediction is a safe bet. Give the man or others like them a chance to mend their feelings and better the community . The sex offenses already occured and we have an aftermath. No action can be taken to undo the sex offense. There is no redo button. There are options to make the most or the least of the situation and I think Catholic involment, on a long-term scale in the social service sub area of sex offense could be a very postitive program.
 
Scott1

Scott1

Well-Known Member
Now you're getting it.....
Cardinal Law said:
Boston, Nov. 4--(UPI) Roman Catholic Cardinal Bernard Law has made his most candid apology for assigning sexually abusive priests to parishes where they continued to have access to children, reports said Monday.

Law, for the first time, acknowledged Sunday had he acted differently, some children might not have been sexually abused by priests. "I did assign priests who had committed sexual abuse," the cardinal, in a sometimes emotional talk, told some 150 parishioners at the Cathedral of the Holy Cross. "I acknowledge my own responsibility for decisions which led to intense suffering," he said. "While that suffering was never intended, it could have been avoided, had I acted differently."
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Cardinal Law said:
While Law has apologized in the past, Sunday's apology was the most detailed offered by the cardinal since the clergy sex-abuse scandal erupted in January. "Once again, I want to acknowledge publicly my responsibility for decisions which I now see were clearly wrong," the cardinal said. "I ask forgiveness of those who have been abused," said Law, who marked his 71st birthday Monday.


"The forgiving love of God gives me the courage to beg forgiveness of those who have suffered because of what I did," Law said. The cardinal said he was speaking out more forcefully at the request of a group of alleged victims of the late Rev. Joseph E. Birmingham. Birmingham is accused in civil lawsuits of molesting more than 50 boys over three decades. "It almost seems like an eternity away, yet it was in January of this year that the crisis of sexual abuse of children by clergy began to dominate our consciousness," Law said. "Ten months later, I stand before you with a far deeper awareness of this terrible evil than I had at that time."
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Maybe he's not the monster some portray him to be..... all of us make mistakes, it's just when you make one as the Bishop of a million member diocese, those mistakes can cause pain and suffering. All we can ask of another human being is true be truly sorry and ask God for pardon.

Scott
 
robtex

robtex

Veteran Member
SOGFPP said:
Now you're getting it.....
Maybe he's not the monster some portray him to be..... all of us make mistakes, it's just when you make one as the Bishop of a million member diocese, those mistakes can cause pain and suffering. All we can ask of another human being is true be truly sorry and ask God for pardon.
Scott
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that is a huge step and in a postitive direction.
 
linwood

linwood

Well-Known Member
that is a huge step and in a postitive direction.

Horsepucky.

So Rob, you know of a 6 year old boy being buggered by an adult male on a regular basis.
You know this adult male has buggered other little boys.

Do you help him avoid the repercussions of this act or do you turn him in?

When someone else does turn this man in do you apologise to the boys family for not stopping the man when you could have?
Or do you tell them they are to blame for leaving their child in the care of this man?

You`d stop him the moment you were certain there was a problem.
Your moral center would allow you no other option.

This little analogy doesn`t even touch the depth of "sin" concerned here considering imaginary boys molester isn`t his priest.

I`m sorry but I don`t see why Law had to "learn" this was a mistake.
I knew I shouldn`t be buggering little boys when I myself was a little boy.

What this is evidence of is the fact that church officials didn`t consider anything more important than their church, includeing little boys.

When the mere reputation of any organization is more important than the lives and safety of children there is a deep moral depravity in play.

You speak of Law "Being given an opportunity to redeem himself".
He is the head of one of the Catholic churches most prominent basilicas.
He can and should make his own opportunity.
Whats stopping him from taking action and I mean action on a large level.

What redemption has he attempted of his own accord.

I know of none.

People who do what Law did who do not happen to be prestigiuous Cardinals are ostracized from society at the very least.
But he is above that isn`t he?

 
robtex

robtex

Veteran Member
wow well that is hard to argue with...I was trying to find a postitve angle but I see your point...there is still the tortured little child. And people who helped in actually partipated in an organized crime..and ongoing one..I was tryting to be the optimist but I am seeing I can't without further damaging the victim. Somehow it would seem beneficial if the church, who has created much damage with their sex scandles use their powerful resources to move in the other direction...using financial and human resources to help the social services that deal with the damage of sex crimes. .....so what do you think should happen?.....Can there be a step in the right direction by Law?


oh footnote: linwood, I was proposing a redemtion not saying he has done one...
 
Melody

Melody

Well-Known Member
SOGFPP said:
Now you're getting it.....
Maybe he's not the monster some portray him to be..... all of us make mistakes, it's just when you make one as the Bishop of a million member diocese, those mistakes can cause pain and suffering. All we can ask of another human being is true be truly sorry and ask God for pardon.

Scott
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Scott,
I don't think he's a monster, but I do think he showed a serious lack of judgment. I have such a problem with religious leaders who do something wrong, say "oops...sorry" and expect to go on as they did before. In this case, it appears the man was rewarded by the Vatican for his "oops".
 
S

Saw11_2000

Well-Known Member
Let me just say that I don't think Law did as much of a "bad" as the people who actually molested the kids. But, I don't think his cover-up was admirable. The new guy seems alright. He's a franciscan munk right? Forgot his name, O'Malley maybe?
 
linwood

linwood

Well-Known Member
Somehow it would seem beneficial if the church, who has created much damage with their sex scandles use their powerful resources to move in the other direction...using financial and human resources to help the social services that deal with the damage of sex crimes.

Getting the Catholic church to change direction is as easy as getting the titanic to change direction.
It`s a huge behemoth that rebels against any change.

I was optimistic enough to believe that the outing of this scandal (common knowledge to many Catholics for decades) would spur real change.

I like that they have addressed it at all but the only reason they have is because it became impossible to ignore or deny any longer with CNN exposing another priest ever other day.

.....so what do you think should happen?.....Can there be a step in the right direction by Law?

I think they should do something positive for their people or all people.
I think they should purge their ranks of these priests.
I think they should seriously re-assess their priorities in this 21st century and adjust their dogma accordingly.
I think they should get back to Vatican II and to hell with those who refuse.
Accept it or get out.

As far as Law goes I think he should be doing some sort of public penence.
He should take a page from Mother Theresas book and dedicate the position and resources of his church to service the material needs of those he has harmed.
I don`t mean the victims of his shuffling I mean the members of his congragation.
he should dedicate his religious life to children as Theresa did to the dying.

I could find forgiveness in my heart if he even attempted such a thing.
 
BUDDY

BUDDY

User of Aspercreme
When there is a pedophile among us, is it not the law that they have to be pointed out to the public so that parents are aware of his or her presence? It seems odd to me that those who act as religious advisors to others (those of any religious group) would protect one in sin and keep him from prosecution by doing the exact opposite. I guess what I am trying to say is that the church continually tries to have an identity of moral superiority, and yet does such horrible things because they think they are above the law. Linwood is right, drastic changes need to be made as soon as possible.
 
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