Questions for Ben Masada

IF_u_knew · Jan 16, 2009

Personally, here is how I see it. We did not get wiped out. (although, I am almost positive that I am of line of the third son of Judah... but who could really know?.. the only thing I *know* is I am of HIM because He is NOT going to let me see it otherwise... and not that I would want to). But now things have become a matter of the spiritual. Not spiritual outside the bloodlines, but spiritual from within.

I keep trying to tell you, this modern state of Israel is not of G.d. I am not saying YOU are not.. obviously He is using you, I mean, without YOU, I would still be using a weak form of belief rather than KNOWING (that was what He needed me to get).. and He is using other Jewish people as well, but why has not any one believed Him when He said in Isaiah 60, I the LORD will hasten it in his time?

He makes it plain. "I, the LORD your G.d will.. " .. will what? He said no one would doubt because it would not be brought about by the hand of man.

Every one was looking at a great and strong wind that tore into the mountains and broke the rocks in pieces and the earthquake and the fire... but the LORD is not in those. Where did He say He would be Ben?

IF_u_knew · Jan 16, 2009

The last post you replied to are not my words. Those are the words of someone else who is going through the much the same only he has not been as fortunate as I have been to have your guidance. I asked him if I could post them here so you could see.

But yes, his words are beautiful.. I *wish* I could speak so beautifully. :cover:

I had chills when I read that last comment of his because up until that point, I was unsure if he was being spoken to as well. As soon as he wrote that, I knew he was. So, considering that it is not just me, can you see that He really is doing what He said He would do? (G.d that is)

Oh.. and the deception is Paul and his message. He is clearly setting up war against the Jewish people and the lost sheep of Israel (whatever bloodline we fall under). Go read my last two posts in your thread about Paul. And as far as Daniel.. the 3 in the fire one like unto the Son of man? That was a clue to say that when we see the Son of man (meaning, us.. not the Jewish), the time for the prophecy to be fulfilled is upon us. When our eyes were opened to see the Son of man (the Word.. the instruction) and not Jesus, we started understanding Ben.

Ben Masada · Jan 16, 2009

IF_u_knew said:
[FONT=&quot].[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I should have clarified. What was basically said was that if we didn’t repent and turn to Jesus for salvation, we were going to hell which we deserved; though we don’t deserve it if we do obtain this blind faith based salvation. I concur with you absolutely. That was the problem. They are just not thinking of salvation in the terms that we are. They are trying to escape fire and not realizing that only walking through the fire does one obtain salvation. I honestly don’t what happens after I die, nor does it matter much to me. I am thankful for what I have NOW. [/FONT]

Ben: You are speaking as a Jewish person.

[FONT=&quot]Agreed… just don’t tell *them* that unless you are ready for the mob *whew* I have honestly never been in a mob type situation, but there was a point where we just had to wipe our hands of it. Only so many times you can rearrange words and maintain the same meaning, ya know? [/FONT]

Ben: Yes, I do know what you mean.

[FONT=&quot]Yes, you handed me that tid bit of knowledge when I first started posting here. Thank you. Came quite in handy for learning the difference between what G.d was teaching me and what I was hearing from others. Now, I know the difference (yes, that quickly) like I grew up in it. [/FONT]

Ben: You make me wish I could meet you.

[FONT=&quot]It is funny that you should bring this up. I just read Genesis 48 and 49 and I know that I am supposed to know *something*.. I also know that you mean the anointed son of Joseph vs. the anointed son of David. Would it have anything to do with this verse? [/FONT][FONT=&quot]14[/FONT][FONT=&quot]And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim's head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh's head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn. Other than that, nothing yet. But you can enlighten me. You might want to put this on hold though, considering what is below. [/FONT]

Ben: Katie, you are threading the right direction. Yes, and the reason why Jacob set his right hand on Ephraim's head became the token why Israel or Messiah ben Joseph, the Ten Tribes of the Kingdom of the North became known as Ephraim. (Hosea 9:3)

[FONT=&quot]Ben: Here is what I understand about this subject: The scapegoat and the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53 are the same. At the time of the two Kingdoms, Israel in the North and Judah in the South, the scapegoat was Israel that had to be sacrificed so that Judah survived. According to Isaiah 53:11, "My Servant shall justify many." Many, not all. All would be the whole world; many were those of Judah, whom Israel died for. As Israel was Divinely rejected forever according to Psalm 78:67,68, which means permanent removal from existence, the new Israel from the stock of Judah, according to Isaiah 48:1, took the place of the scapegoat with reference to the whole world, because of God's promise to Noah that Mankind would never be destroyed again. (Gen. 8:21) Therefore, today, the Suffering Servant has become the new Israel or the Jewish People. No wonder Jesus said to the Samaritan woman that salvation is of the Jews. (John 4:22) That's not personal salvation but that salvation promised to Noah. The collective salvation of Mankind from universal catastrophe. Do I make sense Katie? I'll be convinced that I do if you understand me.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I do understand you, Ben.. err.. I just read all of Psalm 78. You are going to have to forget everything you are thinking to see this. “[/FONT][FONT=&quot] I will utter dark sayings of old:” [/FONT]<[FONT=&quot] This is not a joke if I read that in His understanding.. though nothing whatsoever that is sinister, but marvelous! And wow! Just kind of took me back to something that I was receiving at the beginning of LAST YEAR! [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I hate to give this away because it will be VERY much a fulfillment of verse 4. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]1. Forget that this is talking about a time prior to the turning of BC to AD. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2. Where are you located? NOT city, but what is written next to your location. If Israel does not exist, then why is that written next to your location? [/FONT]

Ben: Well, Katie, now you got me. I am sure that where I am located is not exactly what you want to know, because that's easy to say: Ramat Gan, just North of Tel-Aviv. Is it because we are speaking about the Israel that was removed from existence? That's the people, not the place. Or perhaps I am mistaken. I am not too sure of what you mean.

Ben: <*)))><

IF_u_knew · Jan 16, 2009

Ben: You are speaking as a Jewish person.

*grins big* It is funny how hearing that now means more to me than all the riches in the world. It is nice to know where I rest.

Agreed… just don’t tell *them* that unless you are ready for the mob *whew* I have honestly never been in a mob type situation, but there was a point where we just had to wipe our hands of it. Only so many times you can rearrange words and maintain the same meaning, ya know?

Ben: Yes, I do know what you mean.

No worries Ben It *will* turn around. You are the one pointed out Hosea 4:6 to me. It stands to reason that if we search for His knowledge (which is better than gold), He will do what He said He would. It is the truth.

Yes, you handed me that tid bit of knowledge when I first started posting here. Thank you. Came quite in handy for learning the difference between what G.d was teaching me and what I was hearing from others. Now, I know the difference (yes, that quickly) like I grew up in it. [FONT=&quot]

Ben: You make me wish I could meet you.[/FONT]

Know that G.d is faithful to those who seek Him.

[FONT=&quot]I am going to have to ponder that last question a bit more.. the explanation escapes me right now and that could be due to a number of reasons. I would say too much information, but I am thankful for this. Rest assured though.. the picture is there and He will give me the words to explain it.[/FONT]

Ben Masada · Jan 16, 2009

IF_u_knew said:
Personally, here is how I see it. We did not get wiped out. (although, I am almost positive that I am of line of the third son of Judah... but who could really know?.. the only thing I *know* is I am of HIM because He is NOT going to let me see it otherwise... and not that I would want to). But now things have become a matter of the spiritual. Not spiritual outside the bloodlines, but spiritual from within.

I keep trying to tell you, this modern state of Israel is not of G.d. I am not saying YOU are not.. obviously He is using you, I mean, without YOU, I would still be using a weak form of belief rather than KNOWING (that was what He needed me to get).. and He is using other Jewish people as well, but why has not any one believed Him when He said in Isaiah 60, I the LORD will hasten it in his time?

He makes it plain. "I, the LORD your G.d will.. " .. will what? He said no one would doubt because it would not be brought about by the hand of man.

Every one was looking at a great and strong wind that tore into the mountains and broke the rocks in pieces and the earthquake and the fire... but the LORD is not in those. Where did He say He would be Ben?

To understand the way the Lord said where He would be, we have to understand why he Elijah had to go to that cave where he took shelter. Where he was alone in a very quiet place. Elijah exaggerated his condition that even death would be easier for him than to
think that even God had abandoned him.

Elijah was Divinely invited to stand outside the cave for God's response of assurance. First, a strong and heavy wind was rending the mountains and crushing rocks before the Lord. God was not in that storm. This was symbolic for the Israelites torning down the altars and putting the Prophets to the sword. God was not with them. So, Elijah would not have to worry about them.

After the wind there was an earthquake and fire, and god was not heard to be there. This was symbolic for Jesabel and the King sending soldiers for Elijah's life because of the 450 prophets of Baal Elijah had killed. (I Kings 18:19) He should not worry because God was not with them. Therefore, it would have been no reason for Elijah to have fled to that cave.

After the fire there was a whispering sound. Just like the natural sound of peaceful caves. That's where Elijah was in. When Elijah heard this, he went out to the entrance of the cave and heard the voice of God. He was there. Where was Elijah? In the cave. So, the cave represented Elijah. It means God was with Elijah. That was his assurance to leave the cave and return to the Palace and face the King without fear.

So, for a reply to you, the question is not where God was but whom He was with. Not with the people, not with the King, neither with Jesabel; but with Elijah. I hope you got the idea. The text is in I Kings 19:9-14.

Ben: <*)))>< :clap

IF_u_knew · Jan 16, 2009

:sad: Boy, talk about how Jesus must have felt. I have been contemplating this and quite honestly.. I can't explain it.

It really is a matter of everything physical in the Tanakh being equated to ourselves as spiritual. How do you explain that?

You are focusing on the physical aspects and so that is what you are going to see. Until you can :cover:, you cannot see our Father. All the traditions that the Jewish people keep, keep you bound to the physical... which may be why you are the suffering servant AND the scape goat. I very easily could be both as well.

I see the picture, I just can't explain it because it has been explained.. in the Tanakh. Maybe I had the advantage in that I was not bound to the physical aspect of my heritage. In light of that, I am starting think that YOU are the scapegoat and I represented the suffering servant. But, then again it was because I was the scapegoat, sent out into the wilderness that made me search desperately for my heritage... then, I found it, but I can't prove that to you physically. If you saw me physically, you would say Irish.. but that would not negate the fact that the blood running through my veins is of the same line. Now, that I see myself in the whole of the Tanakh (I mean.. that is me, my story), I feel like the suffering servant. I am saying these things, but no one is understanding me.

You have the idea more so than anyone else I have come across and it was because of contemplating the things that you said and searching that I saw it. But I was forced to look spiritually because I cannot prove that I am this.. it was purely instinctual for me. I was afflicted into finding my identity. In that sense, I could see you being the scapegoat and the suffering servant.

Okay... let me try to say it this way.

Basically, I understood things spiritually (instinctively) before I could bring that to a physical knowledge and understanding. I struggled (suffered) bringing my spiritual knowledge into the physical realm.

You are the opposite of me. You understand things physically and you are struggling (suffering) to understand them spiritually.

So, in essense, it really all goes back full circle. I can show you something in Isaiah that, if you can understand what I am saying (and I KNOW you can) will amaze you.

Isaiah 40: 22
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain (spiritual), and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in (physical):

That is how I saw the Father and it was from that circle of the earth that His right hand reached out to pull me up to set my foot on the rock. :yes:

It is when you find Him that reality really sinks in that heaven is this and this is heaven. Hell is when you don't understand the marvelous adventure and lack that curiousity.. which is what blind faith does.. it shuts off that spiritual curiousity; thus your physical life becomes mundane.

So, in essense.. is being the scapegoat and suffering servant really a curse or a blessing? I think most definately the latter.

whether you are the physical or the spiritual expression of these, it certainly makes for an awesome adventure.

The Bible (whether Christian or Hebrew) is the guide to fuel the adventure back to the Father, no? Honestly, had it not been for Paul, would I have noticed? Consider if you will, the following verses and note the similarity..

Genesis 6: 16
A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; with lower, second, and third stories shalt thou make it.

Ezekiel 41: 16
The door posts, and the narrow windows, and the galleries round about on their three stories, over against the door, cieled with wood round about, and from the ground up to the windows, and the windows were covered;

Ezekiel 42: 3
Over against the twenty cubits which were for the inner court, and over against the pavement which was for the utter court, was gallery against gallery in three stories.

Ezekiel 42: 6
For they were in three stories, but had not pillars as the pillars of the courts: therefore the building was straitened more than the lowest and the middlemost from the ground.

Amos 9: 6
It is he that buildeth his stories in the heaven, and hath founded his troop in the earth; he that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD is his name.

Anything?

There was the first story.. the Tanakh.. Struggle to obey because of ignorance
The second.. The New Testament...Struggle to find True knowledge.. His knowledge
The third... ?? Understanding ??

I don't know.. Just speculating here as far as the last part. (my mind tends to wander on these things haha)

IF_u_knew · Jan 16, 2009

Ben Masada said:
So, for a reply to you, the question is not where God was but whom He was with. Not with the people, not with the King, neither with Jesabel; but with Elijah. I hope you got the idea. The text is in I Kings 19:9-14.

Ben: <*)))>< :clap

Yes.. and much the opposite same way I was looking at things before the connection hit. haha

Me: could only see it spiritually: not in the wind, not in the fire, not in the earthquake.. it was in the still small voice

You: can only see it physically: not with the people, not with the King, nor with Jesabel.. it was with Elijah.

If this is part of your physical history, then it is part of you now .. part of your spirit Ben.

I only could relate spiritually... it was when I read in Jeremiah 31, his promise to the house of Israel that I realized if this was me spiritually, then it is me physically. This is why the whole thing was such a real picture that started in my heart, moved to my head, and now comes forth to understanding it physically (though I still need to understand more of the physical aspects.. which is where you have helped tremendously!).

For you, it is part of you physically, so you had it in head, and now it is working its way to your heart.

You are a part OF that still small voice Ben. What pulls you to shine that light.. that is you as a part of HIM.. it is more than physical, you are of the Father too.. spiritually (not just physically).

Ben Masada · Jan 17, 2009

IF_u_knew said:
Yes.. and much the opposite same way I was looking at things before the connection hit. haha

Me: could only see it spiritually: not in the wind, not in the fire, not in the earthquake.. it was in the still small voice

You: can only see it physically: not with the people, not with the King, nor with Jesabel.. it was with Elijah.

If this is part of your physical history, then it is part of you now .. part of your spirit Ben.

I only could relate spiritually... it was when I read in Jeremiah 31, his promise to the house of Israel that I realized if this was me spiritually, then it is me physically. This is why the whole thing was such a real picture that started in my heart, moved to my head, and now comes forth to understanding it physically (though I still need to understand more of the physical aspects.. which is where you have helped tremendously!).

For you, it is part of you physically, so you had it in head, and now it is working its way to your heart.

You are a part OF that still small voice Ben. What pulls you to shine that light.. that is you as a part of HIM.. it is more than physical, you are of the Father too.. spiritually (not just physically).

Oh yes, Katie, I am very humanistic. I always thought that the People is all that the Bible is about. I think that in the Bible the People come first, then the relation between each other within the People. Then, the relation between the peoples. Then, and only then, the relation between the People and God. If we put God first, man is forgotten; and I believe that's not God's will; since our relation with
God is fixed only by fixing our relation between each other.

Ben: <*)))><

IF_u_knew · Jan 17, 2009

Ben Masada said:
Oh yes, Katie, I am very humanistic. I always thought that the People is all that the Bible is about. I think that in the Bible the People come first, then the relation between each other within the People. Then, the relation between the peoples. Then, and only then, the relation between the People and God. If we put God first, man is forgotten; and I believe that's not God's will; since our relation with
God is fixed only by fixing our relation between each other.

Ben: <*)))><

Hmm.. I kind of disagree with "since our relation with
God is fixed only by fixing our relation between each other"

What I do disagree with is not putting G.d first and the reason why is because until we realize that each and everyone of us, despite our bloodlines are part of G.d's creation, we won't revere one another as such.

True respect and true Love of G.d will automatically lead to promoting that in those around us since they are His creation.

Anything less than true love of G.d will show in how you treat others.

You can not truly love others if you first don't love G.d. Why do you think He included these in the Torah.. not only once, but over and over. When you love G.d and realize that you are of Him, you will love His creation rather than condemn them.

To not understand the knowledge of G.d and love Him first and foremost is to miss the mark in making any real change in the world, in my humble opinion. :cover:

Here is the understanding I have been given AND shown in the Tanakh over the last week.. To not love G.d first is to make shining the light a burden.. it hit me this morning as I was talking to a beautiful lady who does not shine in her beauty because of the guilt and shame. Suddenly, the burden was gone and I want for her to learn to love herself as a creation of G.d, because if she can do that... she will naturally shine as a light for others. Make sense?

Humanism cheapens our role here. I used to think the way you do, but now I realize I was missing out on the beauty of his creation and thus all of it was a burden rather than out of a genuinely upright heart.

I love G.d so much that I will naturally want to give this same love out to the world. If I do that, then my light shines and I lead by example and not just by lip service.

You cannot do what you said effectively if you cannot love G.d first and foremost. *shrugs*

IF_u_knew · Jan 17, 2009

Okay.. literally over the last two weeks, this is something He has been hammering in me (though, I still need it hammered some more I think

).

My premise: You cannot fix your relationship with others until you fix your relationship with your Father.

WhY? What He has shown to me:

What are you giving to others with your approach? Duty.. that is all. In essence, what they hear from you is "you need to be fixed; I am the person who will fix you; and here is what you have to do. you need to be fixed so my life is better lived."

Luckily for me, I had just enough determination to know that I needed to listen to you despite how hard that was at times. I was seeking something other than love, but I am a rare person. Most are not made to seek the truth.. they simply are seeking love and so, your light will not be a natural one that attracts and changes the world.

I'll be honest, it takes a determined and humble person to get any gold out of what you say. You have MUCH gold, but I had to first determine myself not to let what you say hurt my feelings. :sad: Do you know that during our first days of posting to one another, I would cry because I felt like you saw me as lower than you? Like I said, I am a rare type that does not see road blocks as unpassable... if I were like most others though, we would not be here now discussing this.

Not all people need to be put to a test to change. They need to see the same kind of love from us that we have been given by our FAther. I come from a particularly great bloodline that has tendencies of being prideful

Not all are of this bloodline and it is OUR job, NOT THEIRS, to humble ourselves if we are to reach them. How do *we* humble ourselves? By humbling ourselves to G.d and realizing that we are NOT Him, but because we are of Him, we must recognize His love for us (because it is AMAZING) and love Him with that same love so that our duty is done out of the same love He showed for us.

That is why the message of Jesus was sent to us. Because without that love of our Father, we will keep losing this brightness that we call our light to the world.

They don't need duties.. they need love. WE don't need more duties from G.d, we need more of His love. If we fail to see that this is what He gave to us, then we will fail to show that to the world. We are an extension of G.d's love to the world.. that is how we save them. Knowledge is for us.. the love is for them.

That is what He has shown me. The Tanakh is full of this same message. Why do you not see it? Because you are humanistic.. fix them so life is better for *us*... that will show when you speak.

I know you though and that you are a softie

But others don't see that and so, they turn away and miss out on the gold that you possess. Love G.d first and you will love them appropriately as His creation. The punishment is ours if we fail to realize this.

Oh.. and here is what He also showed me. The reason this is important for us to know is because a house divided against itself cannot stand. The Jewish people have yet to learn this. I am just now coming to fully understand this and unless you love G.d first and foremost and realize you are not here because He NEEDS you, you will never fulfill the duties properly and the house will fall.

IF_u_knew · Jan 17, 2009

"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Have been struggling with trying to figure out how to explain this more effectively (and mind you, I am never stuck on my perspective.. so you are free to tear apart what I say).
I think that humanism, as I said, cheapens the experience here. Also, it places more trust in man than in G.d and when you place trust in man's intelligence then you are sure to be disappointed, no?

It seems like trying to save others from their ignorance denies yourself of gaining knowledge. If you think you know something and that everyone must conform to that, than what is the point? It would be more effective to give and get.. but if you are only out to save others for your sake, then you will never receive.

Personally, and I am just going to say it .. I think humanism is a trojan horse. It is deceptive to you and prevents you from the other side of what you are here for.. which is to learn and grow yourself.
I am amazed at the wealth of knowledge that comes from G.d and it is because of that that I try to encourage others to seek the truth and not to settle on blind faith. I see this more as a journey than a mission, which seems to me how you view it.. a mission.

Is it not possible that the picture of the suffering servant and the messiah is a picture of each individual... if you could look at it more from a spiritual sense, then you could teach others self responsibility through that. No one honestly wants to hear they have to be saved.. well, those that do have Paul for that

I see a lot of hatred for the Jewish people right now. Just got done trying to get people to understand that the views they are seeing in the news are not the views of the actual Jewish people... The light IS in the world.. but it is a false light. Each person is capable of being responsible for their own self if they just had the correct knowledge, but to assume they can't come to this through the leading of G.d is to say that He is lacking and needs you. Not to mention.. you are wrong in my VERY humble opinion.. there are vasts amount of knowledge beyond the surface relationships in the Bible, but no doubt you will not see it if you just stop at the surface. I honestly do not see how He would want that for you. Again, you are the one who shared Hosea 4: 6 with me.. do you *really* know that verse to be true or only assume you know. There is an amazing amount of knowledge there, Ben. Even ways that are more conducive for reaching people. If He is the Creator, it would stand to reason that His ways are better than our best attempts.

What is the point of putting things like He sits on the circle of the earth and then drawing reference to the spiritual and the physical if we are not see the connection? I think there is much to be said about the golden rule.. but humanism also denies the command to love the LORD your G.d with all your heart, soul, and mind. To me, this teaches you about yourself... if you know yourself, then you can relate to others better. It is the truth.

Have you ever experienced this? Psalm 42
1As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God.
2My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?
3My tears have been my meat day and night, while they continually say unto me, Where is thy God?

Have you ever noticed that Paul is clearly referred to in the Tanakh or that the christians are referred to? Islam? Have you ever seen that quantum physics is in there and have you ever pondered the "dark sayings"? That to me is loving the LORD G.d with all your heart soul and mind... Panting after the water brooks.. never getting enough of the vasts amounts of knowledge that are contained in the words.. and I only have the english version. The two words that He showed me in Hebrew in and of themselves contained vasts amounts of knowledge. There is so much to learn and so much wisdom. I love people (to a point lol... get frustrated that so many settle *ahem*), but I can't help but think you are missing out on so much when you just settle for the surface.

He did not need you to bring me to the place of searching for Him.. He brought me to you only when I was at the place in my heart to where I was determined to listen. Had I not been, I would have missed out on much because I would have figured you thought I was not worth the ground you walk on (maybe you do.. doesn't seem that way anymore though). who knows.. maybe I am missing something that you aren't and I am willing to hear it...

I do somewhat see what you are saying about the relationship being fixed with G.d when the relationship with the people is fixed.. I don't think constantly seeking forgiveness night and day is a healthy thing by any means.. but I do KNOW that seeking the deeper things in the Bible has opened a great amount of knowledge about myself and in that and learning different perspectives, I rarely have to draw people to me.. they just naturally are drawn. I don't see how that would be possible if I did not seek G.d in His Word first (on more than a surface level).

Okay.. will quit posting until I hear from you and what you have to say. My thoughts are non stop and you kind of threw me for a loop with that declaration *sighs*

Ben Masada · Jan 18, 2009

IF_u_knew said:
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Ben: The heart is the symbolical center for emotions. I have reached a little higher: The mind. I choose Reason. That's where judgment is much more effective. If you are acquainted with the great Philosopher Baruch de Spinoza, he has a lot to say about emotions versus reason. The heart is too misleading. By reason one is supposed to account for his or her mistakes.

Have been struggling with trying to figure out how to explain this more effectively (and mind you, I am never stuck on my perspective.. so you are free to tear apart what I say).

Ben: Katie dear, me, to tear apart what you say! You can't imagine how gentle I am with what people say, especially someone like you who rarely speak things worthy tearing apart. I love how you translate the pearls that come to your mind.

I think that humanism, as I said, cheapens the experience here. Also, it places more trust in man than in G.d and when you place trust in man's intelligence then you are sure to be disappointed, no?

Ben: No Katie. Why? Because it's God's will that we relate to man first. There is no way you will ever fix your relation with God if you don't fix it first with your neighbour. Your prayer won't be heard; your sacrifice won't be accepted if you won't first go back and get forgiveness from whoever you have offended. It means the Bible is humanistic. Besides, the Bible is Jewish Literature. All Literature of any people is about that people. The main theme of the Bible is man in his relation with man and then with God.

It seems like trying to save others from their ignorance denies yourself of gaining knowledge. If you think you know something and that everyone must conform to that, than what is the point? It would be more effective to give and get.. but if you are only out to save others for your sake, then you will never receive.

Ben: There is a lot of knowledge to gain in saving people from their ignorance. But I agree with you that there is no point of improvement when everyone conforms to whatever you know. I do believe that there is more to learn from controversy than from comformity. And I also agree with you that there is no getting if we are on a mission to save other for our sake. The point is to save others for their sake.

Personally, and I am just going to say it .. I think humanism is a trojan horse. It is deceptive to you and prevents you from the other side of what you are here for.. which is to learn and grow yourself.

Ben: Here I disagree with you. The Trojan Horse resides in the pretension to serve God while your heart is heavy with the guilty feeling of having hurt man. That's comparable to growing by stepping on human heads.

I am amazed at the wealth of knowledge that comes from G.d and it is because of that that I try to encourage others to seek the truth and not to settle on blind faith. I see this more as a journey than a mission, which seems to me how you view it.. a mission.

Ben: Yes Katie, there is endless knowledge coming from God, as long as we keep exploring it, but it becomes stale and flat as a passive journey if we don't add the aggressiveness of a mission to produce the good works among men. And there is no beter good works, as you suggest above than to encourage others to seek the Truth and improve their knowledge. Experience has taught me for being a High School Teacher.

I see a lot of hatred for the Jewish people right now. Just got done trying to get people to understand that the views they are seeing in the news are not the views of the actual Jewish people...

Ben: Do you know why you see a lot of hatred for the Jewish People right now? Because the peoples of the world have been accustomed to read and hear that the side of the Jewish People must be on the frontside of a gun and never on the side of the trigger. Since 2001 Israel has been bombed from Gaza. At the time of Sharon, President Bush persuaded him to move and destroy the homes of all the Jews around Gaza with the Utopia that the rockets would stop. Sharon did it and the rockets multiplied even farther into the Negev and neighbouring Israeli cities. Bush got embarrassed, and to fix his disappointment, gave carte blanche to Israel to use force. All the children being killed have only their own parents to blame for allowing their home to store weapens and to shelter terrorists. Imagine if this was happening to America from accross Mexico, or to any other country? But people refuse to think about this. Why? Because they demand that in season or out of season, Israel must act as a scapegoat. And the role of the scapegoat is to suffer and never attack back. Too bad my dear because now the time is not for holocaust.

I think there is much to be said about the golden rule.. but humanism also denies the command to love the LORD your G.d with all your heart, soul, and mind. To me, this teaches you about yourself... if you know yourself, then you can relate to others better. It is the truth.

Ben: Here is one of he few things I can't agree with you: When you say that Humanism denies the command to love the Lord our God. How can we say that we love God if we don't love one another? Do you see what I mean? We first must love each other to be believed when we say we love God. Humanism is about loving God by loving one another. It's as James said: One cannot show his faith without good works. (James 2:18)

Now, allow me a word about the "command" to love God. Even if you get startled, I tell you: There is no such a command. Love is an emotion, a feeling. One cannot be commanded to love or to feel, or the excite an emotion. Love here wth relation to God is the pursuit of knowledge. The more you know about God the more your love of Him increases. Therefore, to know God, you can be commanded. So, the word above as a commandment to love God is to know about God. And with relation to our neighbour, the word is not love either but respect. No one can be commanded to
love one another but to respect. Love per se is involuntary. It happens. It can never be comanded.

Have you ever experienced this? Psalm 42
1As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God.
2My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?
3My tears have been my meat day and night, while they continually say unto me, Where is thy God?

Ben: Yes Katie, but this anxious desire for God must part from knowledge of God. If it parts only from the excitements of emotions it becomes prone to disappointments at the first "Abrahamic test" so to speak.

He did not need you to bring me to the place of searching for Him.. He brought me to you only when I was at the place in my heart to where I was determined to listen. Had I not been, I would have missed out on much because I would have figured you thought I was not worth the ground you walk on (maybe you do.. doesn't seem that way anymore though). who knows.. maybe I am missing something that you aren't and I am willing to hear it...

Ben: I understand you Katie. I do. I am glad the Almighty had you as a vase and ready for the flowers I had to just set them in. No, I was not the one who brought you to the condition to search for Him. He was the One Who prepared you for the harvest. I was but the farmer in the "hands" of God.

Do you know something Katie? There is something about Jesus that I never could agree with, if it's true of him, considering that I accept only 20 percent of the NT. It was his aversion for Gentiles. I was reminded of this as you mention above that if God had not prepared you for me, I would have considered you unworthy the ground I walk. Never my dear. I am not that kind of Jew. I have brought five Gentiles to Judaism. The two girls of the five have got married with two young Jewish men and each one has two children. It means nine souls into the faith of Jesus, which was Judaism. And two former Jews who have returned from the Christian "Messianic Jewish" cult. And I continue working with other Gentiles although Jesus forbade his disciples not to take the good news of the Kingdom of God to the Gentiles. (Mat. 10:5,6)

I rarely have to draw people to me.. they just naturally are drawn. I don't see how that would be possible if I did not seek G.d in His Word first (on more than a surface level).

Ben: You surely can say that again. But I think that's because of your Divine gift with words. That's what drew myself to you. You do have knowledge of the Scriptures, but the secret is in the graceful way you translate that knowledge. :clap

Ben: <*)))>< :bow:

Click to expand...

IF_u_knew · Jan 18, 2009

Ben: Here is what I understand about this subject: The scapegoat and the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53 are the same. At the time of the two Kingdoms, Israel in the North and Judah in the South, the scapegoat was Israel that had to be sacrificed so that Judah survived. According to Isaiah 53:11, "My Servant shall justify many." Many, not all. All would be the whole world; many were those of Judah, whom Israel died for. As Israel was Divinely rejected forever according to Psalm 78:67,68, which means permanent removal from existence, the new Israel from the stock of Judah, according to Isaiah 48:1, took the place of the scapegoat with reference to the whole world, because of God's promise to Noah that Mankind would never be destroyed again. (Gen. 8:21) Therefore, today, the Suffering Servant has become the new Israel or the Jewish People. No wonder Jesus said to the Samaritan woman that salvation is of the Jews. (John 4:22) That's not personal salvation but that salvation promised to Noah. The collective salvation of Mankind from universal catastrophe. Do I make sense Katie? I'll be convinced that I do if you understand me.

Okay.. I do completely understand what you are saying. My questions are this though.. why does Psalm 78 mean that Israel was permanently removed from existence? I understand that they were rejected, but why does that translate into being completely wiped out? Just curious.

Also, *showing ignorance*

what or where is Shiloh?
Psalm 78: 60 So that he forsook the tabernacle of Shiloh, the tent which he placed among men;

Psalm 78 is fascinating.. and I am really curious how the Jewish view certain things in there.

Ben Masada · Jan 18, 2009

IF_u_knew said:
My premise: You cannot fix your relationship with others until you fix your relationship with your Father.

Ben: The opposite is true. For me, I mean.

WhY? What He has shown to me:

What are you giving to others with your approach? Duty.. that is all. In essence, what they hear from you is "you need to be fixed; I am the person who will fix you; and here is what you have to do. you need to be fixed so my life is better lived."

Ben: No, Katie. What we give to others is the knowledge of God, tested by Isaiah 8:20. Duty...! I don't think so. We can't fix anyone. That's between him or her and God. We only bring the good news. Whether our seed falls in good ground or not, that's not what will make our life better lived or not.

Luckily for me, I had just enough determination to know that I needed to listen to you despite how hard that was at times. I was seeking something other than love, but I am a rare person. Most are not made to seek the truth.. they simply are seeking love and so, your light will not be a natural one that attracts and changes the world.

Ben: As you can see, sometimes it depends on the candle for the fire to be kindled.
Now, your candle is shining the right light because your candle is of the best kind.

I'll be honest, it takes a determined and humble person to get any gold out of what you say. You have MUCH gold, but I had to first determine myself not to let what you say hurt my feelings. Do you know that during our first days of posting to one another, I would cry because I felt like you saw me as lower than you? Like I said, I am a rare type that does not see road blocks as unpassable... if I were like most others though, we would not be here now discussing this.

Ben: I know. I am glad we are passed that phase. But be ready to suffer much more if you ever seek conversion. They will make you feel really smaller than you ever thought I did. But it will be part of the test before welcoming you as better than a daughter. (Isa. 56:5)

They don't need duties.. they need love. WE don't need more duties from G.d, we need more of His love. If we fail to see that this is what He gave to us, then we will fail to show that to the world. We are an extension of G.d's love to the world.. that is how we save them. Knowledge is for us.. the love is for them.

Ben: Katie, the love of God comes only through the knowledge of God. As we bring the knowledge of God to other souls, we are bringing love to them. If you have never experienced one who approaches God through you, you can't imagine how he or she loves you. The five former Gentiles who have found the Lord through my work just can't stop demonstrating how much they love me. Just bring the knowledge of God to them and the love of God will germinate.

Oh.. and here is what He also showed me. The reason this is important for us to know is because a house divided against itself cannot stand. The Jewish people have yet to learn this. I am just now coming to fully understand this and unless you love G.d first and foremost and realize you are not here because He NEEDS you, you will never fulfill the duties properly and the house will fall.

Ben: Oh no, Katie, I am well aware that God does not need me. Not especially Ben Masada. The work to be done, if I don't take upon myself to enjoy it, many others will be just around the corner to do it, and I'll miss out the recompense in the pleasure. Yes, I understand what you mean by how much my People need to learn about the house divided which cannot stand. I can see that here, even at a thouroughly Jewish forum, when they warned me to stop my work among the Gentiles and leave it up to the Rabbis. If I do that many among the Gentiles will miss out the love of God, which I see in their eyes as they stare at the light God has given unto the Gentiles.

Ben: <*)))>< :bow:

IF_u_knew · Jan 18, 2009

Ben: The heart is the symbolical center for emotions. I have reached a little higher:
The mind. I choose Reason. That's where judgment is much more effective. If you
are acquainted with the great Philosopher Baruch de Spinoza, he has a lot to say about emotions versus reason. The heart is too misleading. By reason one is supposed to account for his or her mistakes.

Yes, I do agree with this. Good point. I know this all too well and it was quite the struggle learning to be led more by reason rather than just the heart. It is a nice place to be to have my emotions and reason working together in harmony. I find I don’t lose out on the good things in life whilst maintaining a level head.

I think that humanism, as I said, cheapens the experience here. Also, it places more trust in man than in G.d and when you place trust in man's intelligence then you are sure to be disappointed, no?

Ben: No Katie. Why? Because it's God's will that we relate to man first. There is no way you will ever fix your relation with God if you don't fix it first with your neighbour. Your prayer won't be heard; your sacrifice won't be accepted if you won't first go back and get forgiveness from whoever you offended. It means the Bible is humanistic. Besides, the Bible is Jewish Literature. All Literature of any people is about that people. The main theme of the Bible is man in his relation with man and then with God.

Believe me, I do understand what you are saying. I just view it differently. I guess because I just don't really have issues with others. Not personally anyway. There are a lot of people who are upset with me for the stances I take, but not anyone I know personally. I guess I have come to a place where I recognize myself in others and so, I treat them how I want to be treated. The only exception is when I am faced with brutish type ignorance. I am not one to take abuse. I respect myself and the other person to allow for that type of behavior. I just view the Tanakh as G.d's love for His people and to me, it is in that love that I learn love for myself and others. I find it to the most beautifully written piece of literature.

Personally, and I am just going to say it .. I think humanism is a trojan horse. It is deceptive to you and prevents you from the other side of what you are here for.. which is to learn and grow yourself.

Ben: Here I disagree with you. The Trojan Horse resides in the pretension to serve God while your heart is heavy with the guilty feeling of having hurt man. That's comparable to growing by stepping on human heads.

But, I don’t really don’t have that problem. There are times I could.. but often times those people deserve it. Just being honest. I think that it is in remembering what I am here for that keeps me from saying what I really want to say quite often. And for clarification, I am speaking of getting flustered with people who are not stupid, but they act stupid to maintain their false securities; but when I really have a hard time biting my tongue is when they try to guilt others into buying into their blind faith or they try to displace their own feelings of inadequacies onto others. I never feel guilty about it though. Errr.. should I?

I am amazed at the wealth of knowledge that comes from G.d and it is because of that that I try to encourage others to seek the truth and not to settle on blind faith. I see this more as a journey than a mission, which seems to me how you view it.. a mission.

Ben: And there is no better good works, as you suggest above, than to encourage others to seek the Truth and improve their knowledge.

And I agree with this. :yes:

Ben: Do you know why you see a lot of hatred for the Jewish People right now? Because the peoples of the world have been accustomed to read and hear that the side of the Jewish People must on the frontside of a gun and never on the side of the trigger. Since 2001 Israel has been bombed from Gaza. At the time of Sharon, President Bush persuaded him to move and destroy the homes of all the Jews around
Gaza with the Utopia that the rockets would stop. Sharon did it and the rockets multiplied even farther into the Negev and neighbouring Israeli cities. Bush got embarrassed, and to fix his disappointment, gave carte blanche to Israel to use force. All the children being killed have only their own parents to blame for allowing
their home to store weapens and shelter the terrorists. Imagine if this was happening to America from accorss Mexico, or to any other country? But people refuse to think about this. Why? Because they demand that in season or out of season, Israel must act as a scapegoat. And the role of the scapegoat is to suffer and never attack back. Too bad my dear because now the time is not for holocaust.

I am very fond of you Ben, but you and I just don’t see eye to eye on this one. *hugs* Actually, truth be told, it is the Zionist owned media here in America that spins the story against their own people. Sad really. I agree with self defense 100%.. and actually most Americans would.. if that was the story they were getting. It is not.

Oh, and about Mexico, not something unimaginable at all. Our country has been supplying and training their troops for quite some time now and here recently, there have been increased Mexican troops along our border here in Texas, not to mention several Americans have been shot. Honestly, it is only a matter of time. Our country has no problem selling out our citizens, Ben. Why would it surprise you that they would sell yours out?

Ben: Here is one of he few things I can't agree with you: When you say that Humanism denies the command to love the Lord our God. How can we say that we love God if we don't love one another? Do you see what I mean? We first must love
each other to be believed when we say we love God. Humanism is about loving God by loving one another. It's as James said: One cannot show his faith without good works. (James 2:18)

Now, allow me a word about the "command" to love God. Even if you get startled, I tell you: There is no such a command. Love is an emotion, a feeling. One cannot be commanded to love or to feel, or the excite an emotion. Love here wth relation to God is the pursuit of knowledge. The more you know about God the more your love for Him increase. Therefore, to know God, you can be commanded. So, the word above as a commandment to love God is to know about God. And with relation to our neighbour, the word is not love either but respect. No one can be commanded to
love one another but to respect, one can be commaded. Love per se is involuntary. It happens. It can never be comanded.

As for the first part, I do see what you mean. Things just may be viewed differently considering different cultures. I would love to have a sense of belonging with the people around here.. but everyone is so busy running that even giving a smile goes unnoticed half the time. I do think this is true in regards to family and close friends.

In regards to the second, we aren’t so different in how we view it, so don’t worry. You did not startle me haha. As I stated, I always took that command to Love G.d as meaning to seek His knowledge. Just seemed a given, to me anyway. As for loving your neighbor, I took that pretty much the same way as well.

Ben: Yes Katie, but this anxious desire for God must part from knowledge of God. If it parts only from the excitements of emotions it becomes prone to disappointments at the first "Abrahamic test" so to speak.

Agreed here as well. *whew*

Ben: I understand you Katie. I do. I am glad the Almighty had you as a vase and ready for the flowers I had to just set them in. No, I was not the one who brought you to the condition to search for Him. He was the One Who prepared you for the
harvest.

Do you know something Katie? There is something about Jesus that I never could agree with, if it's true of him, considering that I accept only 20 percent of the NT.
It was his aversion for Gentiles. I was reminded of this as you mention above that if God had not prepared you for me, I would have considered you unworthy the ground I walk. Never my dear. I am not that kind of Jew.

I do know you are not that kind of Jew. Lucky for me.

You have given me quite a bit of wealth of knowledge and have been very kind and patient with me.

Now, I may startle you. I actually can understand Jesus' aversion. :sorry1:

I rarely have to draw people to me.. they just naturally are drawn. I don't see how that would be possible if I did not seek G.d in His Word first (on more than a surface level).

Ben: You surely can say that again. But I think that's because of your Divine gift with words. That's what drew myself to you. You do have knowledge of the Scriptures, but the secret is in the graceful way you translate that knowledge.

Thank you. *blushes*

IF_u_knew · Jan 18, 2009

Ben: Oh no, Katie, I am well aware that God does not need me. Not especially Ben Masada. The work to be done, if I don't take upon myself to enjoy it, many others will be just around the corner to do it, and I'll miss out the recompense in the pleasure. Yes, I understand what you mean by how much my People need to learn about the house divided which cannot stand. I can see that here, even at a thouroughly Jewish forum, when they warned me to stop my work among the Gentiles and leave it up to the Rabbis. If I do that many among the Gentiles will miss out the love of God, which I see in their eyes as they stare at the light God has given unto the Gentiles.

Ya know, this world is a brighter place especially BECAUSE OF Ben Masada! :yes:

Ben Masada · Jan 18, 2009

IF_u_knew said:
Ben: Here is what I understand about this subject: The scapegoat and the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53 are the same. At the time of the two Kingdoms, Israel in the North and Judah in the South, the scapegoat was Israel that had to be sacrificed so that Judah survived. According to Isaiah 53:11, "My Servant shall justify many." Many, not all. All would be the whole world; many were those of Judah, whom Israel died for. As Israel was Divinely rejected forever according to Psalm 78:67,68, which means permanent removal from existence, the new Israel from the stock of Judah, according to Isaiah 48:1, took the place of the scapegoat with reference to the whole world, because of God's promise to Noah that Mankind would never be destroyed again. (Gen. 8:21) Therefore, today, the Suffering Servant has become the new Israel or the Jewish People. No wonder Jesus said to the Samaritan woman that salvation is of the Jews. (John 4:22) That's not personal salvation but that salvation promised to Noah. The collective salvation of Mankind from universal catastrophe. Do I make sense Katie? I'll be convinced that I do if you understand me.

Okay.. I do completely understand what you are saying. My questions are this though.. why does Psalm 78 mean that Israel was permanently removed from existence? I understand that they were rejected, but why does that translate into being completely wiped out? Just curious.

Also, *showing ignorance* what or where is Shiloh?
Psalm 78: 60 So that he forsook the tabernacle of Shiloh, the tent which he placed among men;

Psalm 78 is fascinating.. and I am really curious how the Jewish view certain things in there.

Katie, God forbid but think of yourself being utterly rejected by God. This is as good as wiped out from existence. Besides, Hosea says in 1:4 that God caused Israel to cease. God utterly took Israel away. (v. 6) Then, if you read Hosea 8:8, you will see that Israel has been swallowed up among the Gentiles. When Judah was in exile the Jews would be warned not to mix with Gentiles. But Israel was swallowed up and disappeared among the Gentiles. They became just like the Gentiles. Wiped out of existence as a people. Completely cast away by God. (Hosea 9:17) Ephraim, another name for Israel, the Ten Tribes, DIED. (Hosea 13:1) Many would return and be accepted but through conversion just like any other Gentile. The Tribal system is over.

Shiloh, the place yes, I can tell you, because I was there in 2006, when my wife died. It's just North of Betel. I visited both places looking for an apartment to move to after I sold mine in Ramat Gan. I liked Betel better but problems with Arabs and other things made me change my mind. But the Shiloh in the prophecy of Jacob over Judah, is not the place but the event which culminated with the split between the Tribes, which made Isaiah conclude that it was the worst thing to happen to the united Israel, second only to what happened to Israel when it was destroyed by Assyria. (Isa. 7:17)

In Psalm 78:60, "He" here is God Himself Who forsook the Tabernacle of Shiloh. In other words, He forsook Israel, the Ten Tribes or Messiah ben Joseph. The Tabernacle of Shiloh was another name for the Kingdom of the North. Opposite to the Tabernacle of Jerusalem for the Kingdom of the South, or Judah, Messiah ben David.

In Psalm 78:67,68, God forsook the Tabernacle of Shiloh (or Joseph) and placed it among men by exiling it forever. And reconfirmed Judah in Jerusalem according to His promise to David in I Kings 11:36.

Ben: <*)))><

IF_u_knew · Jan 18, 2009

My premise: You cannot fix your relationship with others until you fix your relationship with your Father.

Ben: The opposite is true. For me, I mean.

Yes. I have been told by my (earthly) father that I over analyze these things. I quit talking to him about it when they (he and mom) moved to Africa to preach Christianity (Jesus) to the Zambians at a critical time in my life and my sons' lives. I was actually very upset to think that they would feel people we did not know were more important than my boys. I struggled with trying to adjust to being on my own with my sons (more so than I care to share) and dealing with those feelings of having everyone close to us walk away.

So, perhaps this is why, for me, I could not fix my relationship with others until I fixed it with my Father (that being G.d). I have found much forgiveness and even sadness for these people in my life that I was once angry at. They all miss out on so much in my sons' lives by having chosen to walk away. Nevertheless, G.d picked the 3 of us and set us on a rock... so, the truth of it is this, I could never complain about what we went through for it brought the 3 of us back "home." He has also helped to heal relationships with my sisters and myself and in fact, one of my sisters is starting to come to her own realizations about Paul...finally

haha

Ben: No, Katie. What we give to others is the knowledge of God, tested by Isaiah 8:20. Duty...! I don't think so. We can't fix anyone. That's between him or her and God. We only bring the good news. Whether our seed falls in good ground or not, that's not what will make our life better lived or not.

I am glad you say this. You are right and I do know now that you don't shine your light for purposes of duty. I was unsure, but mostly that is because of my perception of the Jewish people, which you have gone a long way in opening my eyes to their kindness. I have always seen them as beautiful amongst themselves, but you have allowed me to see the great love they have for those they care about.

I remember when I was little, after reading the story of Anne Frank.. I know that the conditions in which she and her parents were living was not close to ideal.. but I was in such admiration of the strength of character and the love for one another that they had. That is how I have always viewed the Jewish to be.. very strong family ties and in that, G.d stood out to me. This is what I wish I could bring to, first my family; second my community; and thirdly, watch it spread like wildfire. So, perhaps I do understand what you mean about fixing the relationship with others first in order to fix the relationship with the Father better than I thought.

He had to start somewhere which is why I am sure He is stirring some of us up; and considering what is happening around the world, it is no wonder we are being given the lessons in the Tanakh and Jesus' words at such a fast pace. My mind set and the way I think is so completely different than when I started on this board.

Ben: As you can see, sometimes it depends on the candle for the fire to be kindled.
Now, your candle is shining the right light because your candle is of the best kind.

Well, Ben, I am not sure what you mean by my candle being the best kind. I think that it is your kind. After reading all of your wise answers to my recent posts, I feel that much stronger and that much more loved by G.d, seeing that it was He that brought me to you. I think you are shining for those of us who are being sparked here in a very dark country. You are very wise now I see in how you handle gentiles. G.d opened my eyes as I read your answers as to why you take the approach you do with us.

When you embrace, I have NO doubts whatsoever that you do it with all of your heart. It is genuine. That is something VERY foreign to me in the land of the fake and it means more than I could even express to you.

I'll be honest, it takes a determined and humble person to get any gold out of what you say. You have MUCH gold, but I had to first determine myself not to let what you say hurt my feelings. Do you know that during our first days of posting to one another, I would cry because I felt like you saw me as lower than you? Like I said, I am a rare type that does not see road blocks as unpassable... if I were like most others though, we would not be here now discussing this.

Ben: I know. I am glad we are passed that phase. But be ready to suffer much more if you ever seek conversion. They will make you feel really smaller than you ever thought I did. But it will be part of the test before welcoming you as better than a daughter. (Isa. 56:5)

I do expect it. But just within my time of having known you, I have become much stronger than I realized I could ever be. It was that faith vs. knowing that sealed what my Father was telling me about myself. When (not if) I seek conversion, I know that it will be genuine acceptance BECAUSE OF them putting me to the test. I look forward to it with all my heart.

That is not something any of the churches here will ever offer. They promote anyone as long as they have money and can control them through fear and guilt. My burden is for all the people seeking something genuine and only having the blind faith offered to them. I have cried and been physically ill as I watch these empty people allow themselves to be abused and made a joke by the pastors here.

See, I am not reading the Tanakh as something in the past Ben. I read it and I see what must done now. Read Jeremiah 23. The Tanakh is more than Jewish history; for some of us, it is our story that is coming alive in the here and now. :yes:

But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.
Mine heart within me is broken because of the prophets; all my bones shake; I am like a drunken man, and like a man whom wine hath overcome, because of the LORD, and because of the words of his holiness.

Ben: Katie, the love of God comes only through the knowledge of God. As we bring the knowledge of God to other souls, we are bringing love to them. If you have never experienced one who approaches God through you, you can't imagine how he or she loves you. The five former Gentiles who have found the Lord through my work just can't stop demonstrating how much they love me. Just bring the knowledge of God to them and the love of God will germinate.

I do believe this. I do believe that we wil see more of this world wide. I trust Him and I trust what He is telling my heart. I fear not and the more I learn, the more I have to share with those here who are looking desperately for something real. It is beautiful to see Him working in the few others that He is stirring up. He is putting words in our mouth and He is speaking comfort to us. He is opening up things that have been closed for so long and why He would allow me to be a part of this, I do not know.. but my heart is overflowing with love for Him and His people.

Again, there are no words to express how I view His AMAZING outpouring in my life. I have heard so many of the deceivers from the pulpits say things like, we should be humble that He accepts us because we are not worthy and weak and will be until Jesus comes back.

That is what is so different about HIM! When He moved in me, I did not feel unworthy anymore. I am worthy because He chose me and set my foot on a rock. He IS that loving and non oppressive. I NEVER thought that I would ever feel this kind of strength. The reality of Him being in my life is so different and so much sweeter than the lies that were being fed to us.

Sorry for the rambling. He spoke last night in my dreams and I woke up with such a full heart and thus, it is bound to pour forth.

Oh.. and this is for you.
Jeremiah 23: 4 And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the LORD. (I fear no more, nor am I dismayed, and I most certainly am NOT lacking, but overflowing! I am glad that you take such joy in speaking to us.)

IF_u_knew · Jan 18, 2009

In reply to your latest post. Ben, reread Isaiah and please, place aside that it happened in the past. I know the reason I was brought to you was because G.d had laid something on your heart to see... and He brought me along to learn it and interpret it more completely. It is the way He works.

Jesus was a picture of the collective messiah.. and he was a picture of those who were from the line of Judah, of which I am one

. We are the suffering servant. It is why I read the psalms and I read it as a translation of my heart into words. G.d has raised the line of Judah that was sent with the lost sheep of Israel. The ones who were scattered and mixed into the gene pools of the world, the lost sheep of Israel, they are the ones in whom we must minister and gather together and they are the collective messiah.

On a personal level.. I was the suffering servant (though not the only one).. I learned to bite my tongue in times of abuse for the sakes of my sons and because I knew it was right in teaching me something, though I didn't know it at the time..I sensed it. When I was put away, I did die.. only it was worse than death.. I honestly was not sure at times that I would survive. To be put away without even a second thought and abandoned.. that is hell. I died. I do not know the person I was before that. This is the same with a few others I have crossed paths with and formed tight bonds. Exact same story only different circumstances and now, look.. we, having never been raised Jewish, are being taught things by our Father at GREAT SPEEDS! We, the suffering servants will save many now.. The collective messiah.

It was very clear in Isaiah. But man and their idol worship insisted it was ONE man. That was paganism. G.d laid it on your heart to say otherwise, but you still see it as a thing of the past.

Remember, He told Moses to pick up the serpent by the tail. The reason this was, was to separate Himself from the gods of the false magicians in the Pharoah's court. They could turn their staffs into snakes (because it was not real, but an illusion), but they could not pick them up by the tail and have them turn back into staffs. It is so no man will doubt that HE is G.d.. which was His promise in the Tanakh about the times we are in now... NO MAN WILL DOUBT and no man will have had an excuse.... why? because it will not be what they expect BUT it will be what was always right there in front of them.. what they refused to see and instead they chose the lie.

Some of us had to suffer because it was what destroyed our faith in anything earthly in order to turn us to search for the Truth. We cried out and would not settle anymore. And He heard us. This is the raising of the messiah.. right now! It is exactly what He said so no man would doubt. They don't want to see what is written clearly because they want to believe the lie.

But G.d will say, I TOLD YOU CLEARLY! You have no excuse! There is no one man returning except for the liar. The Son of man (the Word) has been raised. It is why the Word said, this generation will not pass until these things be fulfilled. It was not a *then* saying.. it is a *now* saying. The man of perdition has been revealed which is Paul.

See, G.d will never leave us to question that it is Him working. It will be internal when He calls. That still small voice.. not the wind, fire, earthquake... but the still small voice. His Word IS with His people and speaks to us in a still small voice. It speaks to us of comfort and peace. It speaks from us boldly.

Jesus the man was a picture of what happened to some of us and is happening.. just like all of the Tanakh is happening now. Psalm 78 <---- I do not lie to you Ben.

I have NEVER been emphatic about anything because I never knew and I am not one for false pride and spewing out ignorance. I have never been more EMPHATIC now because I KNOW.
Read Isaiah, not from a perspective from the past, but a perspective of RIGHT NOW!

Isaiah 1: 2-19... this is the state of Israel.

Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah. <--- you are one of the small remnant, but you have to know that what I tell you is the truth. It is the truth. He said not by man's hands, Ben. You are part of the suffering servant and the collective messiah.

Do you know how it grieves His heart that they are defiling the name of Israel.. your own people are doing this. How is it a good thing and sweet smell to have Israel's image "sexed up" to whore itself out to the nations of the world? That is not the right light. How do you think that would feel if it were your love doing such a thing? The one that you nurtured and loved and trusted with your Laws.. to have her turn around and be a whore to the world? :sad: I know because I have felt His heart. I cry when I see these things because He shows me and speaks to me about these things.

But, you and others, He has used because you have allowed Him to. He speaks to you too. Don't get mad at me for saying this because I am speaking the words I am to give to you. If you are mad at me, you are mad at our Father. It is the truth.

It is time to open your eyes. He *is* saying (not *was* saying) Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers.

And HE will deliver you. Not by the hands of man. The LORD is your Savior, there is none other. It is the truth. You know it in your heart, but you have not heard it clearly. He uses your light, but now He wants you to open your eyes.

Ben, when I speak, I am never sure and never hold to any one perspective so that I can learn. But I do not say these things on my behalf, I speak them on His behalf. You must read Isaiah and see it is now. Enough has been enough.

:cover: <---- Am scared in and of myself at how you will receive this

:yes: <---- Have no doubts in and of Him and what He is putting in my heart to say to you because it is clear and it is all there in front of you to see that I do not lie to you. It is all there. The Tanakh is now and not then. Let go of what was so that you can see what is.

IF_u_knew · Jan 18, 2009

Genesis 38

Judah wanted Tamar burned when He found out she was the "harlot." But remember?
25When she was brought forth, she sent to her father in law, saying, By the man, whose these are, am I with child: and she said, Discern, I pray thee, whose are these, the signet, and bracelets, and staff.

The New Testament was all a picture of the magicians to thwart what G.d promised to do.. *they* drew it up to make gods to fool people with (G.d allowed it to discern the wheat from the tares). G.d has used it though to bring salvation.. their way is breaking all the Laws . G.d's way is within the Law. It is why the Laws of G.d are so important.. so that we would know the truth and we would know when it was real. G.d does not break the laws.. man does. He kept them with you and the testimony so that you would know when it was real.

And He put those Laws on our heart as a sign to the Jewish people... so, Ben..discern I pray thee, whose are these, the signet (the seal on my heart), and bracelets (the Word.. the testimony), and staff (The Law).

I know much more Ben.

Questions for Ben Masada

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