-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
resurrection
- Thread starter olson5256
- Start date
starlite
Texasgirl
This statement made by s-word is something I've never heard before...seems absurd. It shocked me when I first read it in post 207.
Last edited:
Berachiah Ben Yisrael
Active Member
I'm also trying to figure out how Yoseph and Miriam are brother and sister being s=word said their daddy was Heli?
starlite
Texasgirl
I'm also trying to figure out how Yoseph and Miriam are brother and sister being s=word said their daddy was Heli?
Been doing a little research and just found this:
The Spurious Passage at John 7:538:11. These 12 verses have obviously been added to the original text of Johns Gospel. They are not found in the Sinaitic Manuscript or the Vatican Manuscript No. 1209, though they do appear in the sixth-century Codex Bezae and later Greek manuscripts. They are omitted, however, by most of the early versions. It is evident that they are not part of Johns Gospel. One group of Greek manuscripts places this passage at the end of Johns Gospel; another group puts it after Luke 21:38, supporting the conclusion that it is a spurious and uninspired text.
Berachiah Ben Yisrael
Active Member
Been doing a little research and just found this:
The Spurious Passage at John 7:538:11. These 12 verses have obviously been added to the original text of Johns Gospel. They are not found in the Sinaitic Manuscript or the Vatican Manuscript No. 1209, though they do appear in the sixth-century Codex Bezae and later Greek manuscripts. They are omitted, however, by most of the early versions. It is evident that they are not part of Johns Gospel. One group of Greek manuscripts places this passage at the end of Johns Gospel; another group puts it after Luke 21:38, supporting the conclusion that it is a spurious and uninspired text.
Great to know I'm not reading those things.
Thanks for the heads-up Texas girl. I would like any links you might share so I can see this. If you feel better to PM me that is fine too.
I'm also trying to figure out how Yoseph and Miriam are brother and sister being s=word said their daddy was Heli?
Go back to starlite's post number 225 where she says that "Mary the mother of Jesus was the daughter of Heli" Now turn to Luke 3: 23, 'Jesus was the son of Joseph the son of Heli.' I put this question to one of my grandchildren who has not even started primary school as yet, and I asked him, what relation, in this instance, would Mary the daughter of Heli, be to Joseph the son of Heli, and I wonder if you can guess, what his answer was?
Berachiah Ben Yisrael
Active Member
LOL, I see your point as to how I worded my reply. LOL
What I meant was I was having trouble finding where in scripture that it states that both Yoseph and Miriam were the offspring of Heli which in any circle I know of only gives to two choices as to what relation this meant. They were either brother and sister or half-brother and half-sister. I just can't find it in my scripture where all this is stated.
starlite
Texasgirl
Berachiah Ben Yisrael
Active Member
starlite
Texasgirl
Great to know I'm not reading those things.
Thanks for the heads-up Texas girl. I would like any links you might share so I can see this. If you feel better to PM me that is fine too.
Check the link in post 248 maybe it will help
Berachiah Ben Yisrael
Active Member
Nowhere does it say in scripture that Mary is the daughter of Heli, but as the genealogy recorded in Luke, is that of Jesus, those who have been deceived by the false teachings of the Anti-Christ, who John said was already in the world in his day, (see 1st John 4: 1-3, and 2nd John, verse 7-8,) and the disciples of the Anti-Christ, who refused to accept that Jesus came as a human being born of human parents, and had spread their deceptive teaching all over the world, that somehow a woman was able to conceive, without male semen having been introduced into her uterus, something that is totally unscriptural, they have to accept that Heli was the father of Mary, and Im prepared to go along with that, as Isaac who is considered to be a prototype of Jesus, and like Jesus, was born of Gods promise according to the workings of the Holy Spirit, and was offered up as a sacrifice by his Father on the very same mountain that Jesus was offered up, and like Jesus, Isaac too was born of a brother and sister who were sired by the one father, from two dirrerent mothers.
So, I dont know about you, but Im prepared to accept the view of the majority of those who call themselves Christians, (even though they believe in another Jesus that was preached by the Anti-Christ, as revealed by John) that Heli who is the father of Joseph the biological father of Jesus, is also the father of Mary the cousin of Elizabeth of the daughters of Levi, and the half sister to Joseph the Levite from Cyprus,who is the son of her father 'Heli,' ('Heli,' by the way, is the Greek adaptation of the Hebrew 'Eli' the high priest.) the Joseph who was surnamed Barnabus who took his sisters son young John, who was surnamed Mark, which means Hammer, and most probably his sister Mary also, back to his home in Cyprus. It is also said that the bodies of John the beloved disciple and Mary the mother of Jesus, were later buried in Ephesus, and their graves can still be visited today, but this you may believe or disbelieve as you please.
You do realise of course that the genealogy recorded in Matthew is that of Joseph the son of Jacob, the son of Matthan from the tribe of Judah and has nothing to do with the genetic line of Jesus, and although Jesus is seen as a member of the tribe of Judah because of his step father, his legal right to the throne of David comes through his biological father Joseph the son of Heli, whose great ancestor, 'Nathan the Levite,' was both the stepson and son in law of David.
Last edited:
Surely you know that Jesus is a descendant of the long dead King David through Nathan the priest who was the son of Uriah and Bathsheba the daughter of Ammiel the son of the Levite Obed-Edom, and that Nathan was the stepson of David and the ancestor of the biological father of Jesus, who was Joseph, the son of Heli, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melchi, of Jannai, of Joseph, of Mattathias, of Amos, of Nahum, of Esli, of Naggai, of Maath, of Mattathias, of Semein, of Josech, of Joda, of Joanan, of Rhesa, of Zerubbabel, of Shealtiel, of Neri, of Melchi, of Addi, of Cosam, of Elmadam, of Er, of Joshua, of Eliezer, of Jorim, of Matthat, of Levi, of Simeon, of Judah, of Joseph, of Jonam, of Eliakin, of Melea, of Menna, of Mattatha of Nathan the Levite who was the stepson of David
Last edited:
The Spurious Passage at John 7:538:11. These 12 verses have obviously been added to the original text of Johns Gospel. They are not found in the Sinaitic Manuscript or the Vatican Manuscript No. 1209, though they do appear in the sixth-century Codex Bezae and later Greek manuscripts. They are omitted, however, by most of the early versions. It is evident that they are not part of Johns Gospel. One group of Greek manuscripts places this passage at the end of Johns Gospel; another group puts it after Luke 21:38, supporting the conclusion that it is a spurious and uninspired text.
You need to do more research.
Quote starlite from post 252, She was the daughter of Heli, though the genealogy given by Luke lists Mary’s husband Joseph as the “son of Heli.”
Mary's first legal husband as everone knows, apart from you it would seem, was Joseph the Son of Jacob the son of Matthan, from the tribe of Judah and the descendant of Solomon the son of David and Bathsheba, Although the conception of Jesus was concealead in the shadow beneath the wings of the Lord of Spirits, Isaiah did not use the the Hebrew word for 'Virgin' in his famous prophecy, but he used the word 'Almah,' which means, (Concealment--unmarried female). Mary was not legally married to 'Joseph the son of Heli,' who was the half brother to Mary the daughter of Heli, and the biological father of Jesus, (a descendant of Nathan the stepson and priest of David, ) who was made high priest by the Lord, not that Jesus took upon himself the honor of high priest , but rather, after he had been brought to perfection through his sufferings, God made him high priest in the line of succession to Melchizedek, with these word, 'You are my Son, Today, lets repeat that, TODAY I have become your Father."
Last edited:
As I said in that post, if that woman had indeed been guilty of adultery according to the law of Moses, and had been "caught in the very act" of sexual intercourse with another man other that the one to who she was currently married, for it was legal according to the law of Moses for a divorced person to remarry. Then those Jewish authorities who thought nothing of stoning the innocent Stephen to death, would have been obligated by the law to have her stoned to death.
Those hypocrites who had only said that she had commited adultery because she was a remarried divorcee, which according to the new teaching of Jesus, was adultery, in order to trap him with his own teachings and accuse him as a hypocrite as they themselves were. Jesus then told that woman to go and sin no more; now if she were a devout follower of Jesus and she had been a divorced-remarried woman, she would have to be seen to have seperated from her then legal husband, 'Cleophas also known as 'Alpheaus the father of James the younger of Mary's three biological sons.
But you are shocked at this possibility, so can you explain, why a woman with a husband and four strapping sons, would need to have been given into the care of the beloved disciple of Jesus when he could no longer care for her?
Last edited:
Berachiah Ben Yisrael
Active Member
This would help my research into the law of marrying sisters. I feel it may have been possible for one to legally marry his half sister but I am still studying this.
So why do you think they put this in Matthew?
starlite
Texasgirl
Nathan, a son of David by his wife Bath-sheba, born to him in Jerusalem. (2Sa 5:13, 14; 1Ch 3:5) The natural lineage of Messiah is traced, from David through Nathan and his descendants down to Jesus, evidently through Jesus’ mother Mary. (Lu 3:23, 31)
Another Nathan, a prophet during David’s reign; possibly of the tribe of Levi is also recorded in the Bible. When the king revealed to Nathan his desire to build a temple for God's true worship, the prophet replied: “Everything that is in your heart—go, do.” (1Ch 17:1, 2) However, that night God informed Nathan that instead of David’s building a temple, God would build for David a lasting house, and that later on David’s descendant would build the house of God. Thus through Nathan, God announced to David a covenant for a kingdom “to time indefinite” in David’s line.—2Sa 7:4-17; 1Ch 17:3-15.
Nathan, the prophet, was later sent by God to point out both the magnitude of David’s sin against Uriah the Hittite respecting Bath-sheba and the divine penalty imposed because of it. This he did tactfully but forcefully, using an illustration. David was thereby maneuvered into expressing, unwittingly and without personal prejudice, his own judgment on such an act. Nathan then informed him: “You yourself are the man!” and expressed God’s judgment upon David and his house.—2Sa 12:1-18
Last edited:
Berachiah Ben Yisrael
Active Member
I was just looking at the one in Matthew as well and so that the one in Luke has 14 more daddy's in it than Matthew which almost leads me into believing that the one in Luke would almost make the person much older of the two parents. We know that Yoseph was older than Miriam and by a good bit from what I understand. Is this possible that the Luke account is that of Yoseph and the Matthew account is that of Miriam? With some given discrepencies?
starlite
Texasgirl
At what point were these words said? As recorded by John (the Baptizer) at John 1:32-34 who was an eyewitness to the baptism of Jesus, may it be noted that a voice from heaven said "You are my Son". The other Gospel writers also spoke of the baptism of Jesus ( Luke 8:21,22; Matthew 3:17 and Mark 1:11) and the voice of the Heavenly Father acknowledging Jesus as his son.