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resurrection

S-word

Well-Known Member

Good illustration because that's the point....there are different degrees of love.


I've heard tell that Texans are always bragging about the size of everything over there. Well I'm telling you now, that in the pouch of a small female Kangaroo over here in Australia, I could fit those three puny little Texan kangaroos in that picture on top of your post, without any trouble at all; now what do you say to that?
I love you too starlite, but to what degree?
 

emiliano

Well-Known Member
I just wonder how we can contemplate Yahshua loving one disciple more than another. I would have thought that he would have loved them all that followed his Fathers word and wouldn’t have played favorites. To say “beloved disciple” wasn’t they all beloved? Most say that was the biggest thing in the entirety of the NT that it was said that “you shall love each other as I have loved you”.

Not meaning to ruffle any feathers here but just offering an observation. And I might have missed something as it is not impossible for me to do. :)

Well considering that God favours some more than others, and Jesus is the perfect image of the invisible God, a spirit, the contemplation does not bother me at all.
 

starlite

Texasgirl
I have reason to believe that by looking at context and the internal evidence we can conclude that John, the apostle, enjoyed a very close relationship with Jesus. He was the one whom Jesus used to love, as referred to in his Gospel. At the final evening meal, John reclined next to Jesus, and it was he to whom Jesus, when on the torture stake, gave the special privilege of taking Jesus' mother, Mary, into his own home and caring for her as if she were his own mother-John 13:23; 19:25-27; 20:2; 21:20.

This mutual bond between Jesus and John did not arise out of physical attraction. Nor was John a sentimentalist, though it is true he spoke much about love. Actually, true and sincere Godlike love is a strong, pure quality, closely linked with loyalty. In all his writings, John manifested a strong love and loyalty toward Jesus Christ. Jesus, who knew what was in man, greatly appreciated this quality in John, and so a deep attachment was formed between them.

A unique feature of John's Gospel is his never referring to himself by name. Whenever he mentions John he means John the Baptist. The other three Gospel writers logically distinguish between the two Johns, but not he apostle John. When he refers to himself it is either as one of the sons of Zebedee, his father, or as the disciple whom Jesus loved-John 21:2, 20. This same characteristic of not naming himself is evident at John 18:15,16. Furthermore, John and Peter are linked in the account at John 20:2-8. These indications suggest that the apostle John was that disciple [who] was known to the high priest. The Bible does not provide background information as to how the Galilean apostle (John) might have got to know, and got to be known by, the high priest. But his being known by the household of the high priest enabled John to get past the doorkeeper into the courtyard and to gain entrance for Peter also.

All four of the Gospel writers--Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John--record that on the night of Jesus' arrest, one of his disciples drew a sword and struck a slave of the high priest, taking off the man's ear. Only the Gospel of John reports a seemingly unnecessary detail: "The name of the slave was Malchus." (John 18:10,26) Why does John alone give the man's name? A few verses later the account provides a minor fact not stated anywhere else: He "was known to the high priest." He was also known to the high priest's household; the servants were acquainted with him, and he with them. (John 18:15,16) It was only natural, then, that John mention the injured man's name, whereas the other Gospel writer, to whom the man was a stranger, do not.


As I have already said in my previous posts in this thread, I am totally convinced that John is the beloved disciple of Jesus, but nowhere, in the Bible is John said to be the beloved, nor is it anywhere said that the beloved is John, You have taken this from John 13: 23, (At the final evening meal, John reclined next to Jesus,) but you are putting words into the Bible that are not there, this verse states that the beloved disciple reclined next to Jesus, but nowhere is he identified as John.

When you say ‘He,’ you are not referring to John here, but to the beloved, (and it was ‘He’ to whom Jesus, when on the torture stake, gave the special privilege of taking Jesus' mother, Mary, into his own home and caring for her as if she were his own mother) John 19: 25-27, “Jesus saw his mother and the disciple he loved,”-- but the disciple he loved is not identified as John.The Gospel of John was not actually written by John, but by a group transcribing from his written accounts. I believe that John was the only disciple that is recorded as having, been at the cross with the mother of Jesus, ‘Mary the wife of Cleophas and her sister, sister in law or half sister, Mary Magdalene, even though he is not mentioned by name, because the scribes who recounted the words of John, say in John 19: 35, when referring to the blood and water that ran from the wound in the side of Jesus (The one who saw this happen has spoken of it, so that you also may believe. What he said was true, and he knows that he speaks the truth.)

And again, it is made abundantly clear that the one referred to by the scribe, or rather scribes who actually wrote the Gospel of John, knew that John was the beloved disciple of Jesus when they referred to the one that Jesus had said to Peter in reference to the disciple that he loved, (“If I want that he should live until I come, what is that to you?”) and then, they go on to say in John, 21: 24, “He is the disciple who spoke these things, the one who also wrote them down; and ‘we,’ (Those who transcribed the words of John) know that what he said is true.”

At the last supper that Jesus had with his disciples on the night before the Passover Lambs were to be slaughtered, Jesus sent Judas to do what had to be done in accordance to the plan of God, and Judas went and gathered the Temple guards and the Roman soldiers and took them to the Garden where he identified Jesus as the one that the Jewish authorities wanted arrested, undoubtedly he would have returned with the group to collect his reward, and as Peter is the only other disciple that was there in the courtyard with Judas, I am convinced, that John was definitely not present there, but would have been with the mother of Jesus comforting her in the day that the sword of suffering pierced her heart.

Iagree with you that the Bible does not name John. When you refer to scribes are you saying that they (scribes) did the actual writing for John or that they made copies of John's original writings?
 

starlite

Texasgirl
I've heard tell that Texans are always bragging about the size of everything over there. Well I'm telling you now, that in the pouch of a small female Kangaroo over here in Australia, I could fit those three puny little Texan kangaroos in that picture on top of your post, without any trouble at all; now what do you say to that?
I love you too starlite, but to what degree?

And who's bragging now???? You tell me...to what degree. By the way, I have relatives in Queensland:kangaroo:
 

starlite

Texasgirl


Mary the wife of Cleophas and her sister, sister in law or half sister, Mary Magdalene, even though he is not mentioned by name, because the scribes who recounted the words of John, say in John 19: 35, when referring to the blood and water that ran from the wound in the side of Jesus (The one who saw this happen has spoken of it, so that you also may believe. What he said was true, and he knows that he speaks the truth.)

And again, it is made abundantly clear that the one referred to by the scribe, or rather scribes who actually wrote the Gospel of John, knew that John was the beloved disciple of Jesus when they referred to the one that Jesus had said to Peter in reference to the disciple that he loved, (“If I want that he should live until I come, what is that to you?”) and then, they go on to say in John, 21: 24, “He is the disciple who spoke these things, the one who also wrote them down; and ‘we,’ (Those who transcribed the words of John) know that what he said is true.”
__________________________________________________________________________________________
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]A family that was closely related to Jesus and associated with him in the early spread of Christianity is the family of the master fisherman Zebedee of Galilee to which we refer. Zebedee married Salome of the house of David, the natural sister of Mary the mother of Jesus. They had two sons, James, who generally is mentioned first because he possibly was the older, and John. These two brothers were thus of Davidic descent like Jesus. This relationship made Zebedee and Salome Jesus’ uncle and aunt respectively and their sons James and John the first cousins of Jesus.[/FONT]​
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Some time following meeting John and Andrew at the Jordan River Jesus called at his uncle Zebedee’s fishing business. There in the hearing of their father Jesus gave an official call to both James and John to become full-time “fishers of men” and to abandon their fishing job. Apparently a man of faith, Zebedee raised no objection. (Matt. 4:21, 22) Even Zebedee’s wife, Jesus’ aunt Salome, was permitted to leave his household for long periods of time to be a zealous follower of Jesus in his preaching work, along with the many other women disciples. This relationship helps to explain why on one occasion Salome took courage to ask her nephew Jesus a special favor. Jesus appointed both of his cousins, James and John, as apostles, numbering them among the twelve.—Matt. 10:2; 20:20-23.[/FONT]​
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]This study of Jesus’ relatives aids in understanding another very touching scene that again evidences the depth of Jesus’ love and care. It seems that by the end of Jesus’ public ministry his foster father Joseph had died. This meant that Jesus as the oldest son should make provision for the care of his mother Mary, and that he did. This was the last act he performed while still hanging on the impalement stake before he expired in death. Nearby stood his mother Mary and his aunt Salome, together with other devoted women. Incidentally, John, who records this event, does not mention his mother by name, as in his modesty he gives no prominence to his immediate family. Not even once in his entire gospel account does he mention either his brother James or himself by name. But Mark, who names the women present at the staking, gives John’s mother by name as Salome.—Mark 15:40; 16:1.[/FONT]​
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Jesus looking down from the stake on his mother, who was pierced through with deep sorrow, and noticing also John the disciple whom he loved, heavy with grief, standing nearby, Jesus said in their hearing: “Woman, see! your son!” Then to John he said: “See! your mother!” What volumes these few words speak as to the three involved at this tragic climax! The Bible says that from that very hour John lovingly took his aunt Mary, Jesus’ mother, into his own home in Jerusalem. This incident indicates a loving tribute paid by Jesus to the woman who unselfishly gave herself to become God’s “slave girl” from the birth to the death of earth’s greatest man, whom she was privileged to bear. It likewise characterizes Jesus’ thoughtfulness. Who better could comfort Mary in her despair than her own fleshly sister Salome, who was a zealous follower of Jesus and who undoubtedly resided with her devoted, understanding son, John?[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] Another theocratic family is said to have been near relatives of Jesus, although there is no direct scripture to support this. It is the family of the ‘other Mary,’ a God-fearing woman who was a close companion of Jesus’ mother Mary and who followed Jesus during most of his earthly ministry. She was present at the impalement of Jesus in company with Mary and Salome. It was she and Mary Magdalene who went to anoint Jesus’ body on Nisan 16, but instead the two were privileged to be the first ones to talk with the glorious resurrected Jesus. (Matt. 27:56, 61; 28:1-10) This eager follower of Jesus, Mary, was the wife of one whose name in Aramaic was Clopas but whose name in Greek was, supposedly, Alphaeus.—John 19:25; Mark 16:1; Luke 6:15.[/FONT]​
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The ‘other Mary’ had two sons, James and Joses. (Mark 15:40) If tradition is right in claiming that Clopas was the brother of Joseph the foster father of Jesus, then these two brothers were Jesus’ half cousins. Mary’s son James, also known as “James the Less” to distinguish him from the apostle James, the son of Zebedee, was a very active disciple of Jesus. He had the high privilege of being appointed by Jesus as one of his twelve apostles. (Matt. 10:3) Not only that, but James had a very devoted grown-up son by the name of Judas who likewise was designated as one of the “twelve apostles of the Lamb.” This Judas, his son, was further known as Thaddaeus, or merely as the “son of James” to differentiate him from Judas Iscariot. These possible kinsmen of Jesus were constantly in his company and proved loyal and faithful.—Matt. 10:3; Luke 6:16; John 14:22.[/FONT]​


 

S-word

Well-Known Member
quote..... starlite
I agree with you that the Bible does not name John. When you refer to scribes are you saying that they (scribes) did the actual writing for John or that they made copies of John's original writings?
__________________
I believe that they transcribed the written words of John. But I had already said that in the second paragraph of the post in question,
"The Gospel of John was not actually written by John, but by a group transcribing from his written words."
 
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S-word

Well-Known Member
Qoute .... Starlite
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]A family that was closely related to Jesus and associated with him in the early spread of Christianity is the family of the master fisherman Zebedee of Galilee to which we refer. Zebedee married Salome of the house of David, the natural sister of Mary the mother of Jesus. They had two sons, James, who generally is mentioned first because he possibly was the older, and John. These two brothers were thus of Davidic descent like Jesus. This relationship made Zebedee and Salome Jesus’ uncle and aunt respectively and their sons James and John the first cousins of Jesus.[/FONT]​

Salome, the feminine of Solomon, was more than likely of the tribe of Judah, and she could possibly have been the wife of Zebadee, and she may or may not have been the sister of the first husband of Mary and step father to Jesus who was Joseph the son of Jacob who is a descendant of Solomon, yet this would be nothing but supposition. But she was definitely not the sister of Mary the full cousin of Elisabeth who was of the daughters of Levi.

See Luke 3: 23, the genealogy of the biological parents of Jesus, who are Mary and her half brother, Joseph the son of Heli, who is a descendant of Nathan the son of Uriah and Bathsheba, who is the daughter of Ammiel the son of Obed-Edom a Levite, who is a descendant of Moses through his second wife who was the daughter of Hobab. Isaac is a prototype of Jesus, and Isaac, Like Jesus, was born of parents who were both sired by the same father, both Isaac and Jesus were born of God’s promise according to the workings of the Holy Spirit and both were offered up as a sacrifice by their fathers on the very same mountain.

Matthew 13: 56, “Isn’t Mary his mother, and aren’t Jame, Joseph, Simon and Judas his brothers? The family of Mary included Jesus, the son of Joseph the Levite from Cyprus who was the son of Heli who was also the Father of Mary. Her second son was Joseph of who we know practically nothing, and he was the son and namesake of his Father Joseph, and was conceived after Mary had given birth to her first born child, when Joseph then consummated their union, and apparently, Joung Joseph would have been brought up by his father after he had divorced Mary. Then there was James the younger of the three biological sons of Mary, and James was the son of Alpheaus, who is also called Cleophas, which is an abbreviation of Cleopatros, the masculine of Cleopatra, and Cleophas had two sons of his own when he married the mother of Jesus after she had been divorced by Joseph the son of Jacob, and the two sons were Simon the son of Cleophas who succeeded to the Episcopal throne of the church of the circumcision, after the death of James the brother of our Lord, and Jude the brother of James who is the brother of the Lord, see Jude 1, ‘King James,’ ‘ Amplified,’ ‘ Living New Testament,’ and ‘Revised Standard,’ which all state that Jude is the brother of James, and in Luk 6: 16, of these four translations, only the 'king James' and the 'Revised Standard' have Jude as the brother of James, the 'Amplified' and the 'Living new Testament' have erroneously transcribed Jude as the son of James


The Jewish authorities were always looking for ways to trap Jesus according to his own words and then accuse him. And it was after he had preached that if a divorced person remarried while their original spouse was still alive, that they were guilty of ‘adultery.’
Choosing Mary from among the crowd who were listening to Jesus, the hypocrites made her stand before the people, then turning to Jesus and in their most patronising voices they said, "Teacher, this woman has been caught in the very act of adultery (Not according to the law of Moses, but to the new teaching of Jesus) in our law Moses commanded that such a woman (An adulteress) must be stoned to death. Now, what do you say?"
Now, listen to what the scriptures say, They said this so that they could trap Jesus and accuse him.
This woman was not guilty according to the law, in fact, if she had been caught in the very act of having sexual intercourse with another man other than the one to who she was currently Married, the authorities who thought nothing of stoning the innocent stephen to death would have been compelled by the very law of Moses, to have her stoned to death irrelevant to what Jesus said. For the sake of her Lord, her first born who had asked her to sin no more, she ceased to live with her legal husband Cleophas, and it was for this reason that Jesus on the cross, unable to support his mother any longer, gave her into the care of his beloved disciple.

You have stated so much in your previous comment that needs to be answered, but this post is becoming too long, so I’ll close here and start another.
 
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S-word

Well-Known Member
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Quote...starlite[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Another theocratic family is said to have been near relatives of Jesus, although there is no direct scripture to support this. It is the family of the ‘other Mary,’ a God-fearing woman who was a close companion of Jesus’ mother Mary and who followed Jesus during most of his earthly ministry. She was present at the impalement of Jesus in company with Mary and Salome. It was she and Mary Magdalene who went to anoint Jesus’ body on Nisan 16, but instead the two were privileged to be the first ones to talk with the glorious resurrected Jesus. (Matt. 27:56, 61; 28:1-10) This eager follower of Jesus, Mary, was the wife of one whose name in Aramaic was Clopas but whose name in Greek was, supposedly, Alphaeus.—John 19:25; Mark 16:1; Luke 6:15.[/FONT]​

Apart from the Mary in Rome who is recorded in Romans 16: 6, and who cannot be identified, there are only two other women by the name ‘Mary’ in the New Testament, John whom Jesus surnamed ‘Son of Thunder’ and John who was surnamed ‘Mark,’ which name means ‘Hammer,’ are one and the same. And Mary, whom Jesus trusted to the care of John the beloved, is also one and the same with Mary the mother of John surnamed Mark, who is the half sister to Joseph the Levite from Cyprus who was surnamed Barnabas, see Colossians, “Mark, sister’s son to Barnabas,” or ‘John Mark,’ the (Adopted) son to the sister of Barnabas.


Having said this, I must now confess to a possible error that I had made in post 181, because I had totally overlooked Colossians 4: 10, the Gospel of 'Mark,' could have been written by Mark the son of Peter, or John surnamed 'Mark,' and if such were the case, this means that you would be correct in stating that it was Mark who lost his robe, but this does not take away the fact that I was correct in saying that it was the beloved disciple, whom I believe to be John who was surnamed 'Mark.' Isn't that strange that only the gospels 'John', 'Mark' begin their account of the chosen Son of God when the man Jesus was filled with the spirit of the only exception of all mankind to have ascended into heaven, even the 'Son of Man,' who is in heaven, whose words came down into the body of his chosen obedient servant, who did or spoke nothing on his own authority, except that which he was commanded to do and say.

After the death of Jesus, see Acts 1: 14, the disciples gathered frequently to pray as a group, together with the women and with Mary the mother of Jesus etc. When Peter was miraculously released from prison, he ran straight to the house where he knew that the brethren would be gathered in prayer for his safety, to the house of Mary the mother of John ‘Mark,’ see Acts 12, 12.


Matthew 26: 6, has an un-named woman anointing Jesus in the home of Simon with the dreaded skin disease in the town of Bethany in the week prior to the Passover, with an alabaster jar filled with expensive perfume that could have been sold for a large amount of money. Mark 14: 3, also has Jesus in the home of Simon with the terminal skin disease from which he died, in the town of Bethany in the week prior to the Passover, being anointed with expensive perfume valued at 300 silver coins, by an unnamed woman.

Lazarus which name means ‘without help’ or ‘terminal,’ is one and same as Simon with the terminal skin disease, from which he died, and the woman as recorded in Luke who had lived a sinful life, who is generally believed to have been Mary Magdalene a reformed prostitute, is seen at the feet of Jesus, crying and wetting his feet with her tears. Then she dried his feet with her hair, kissed them, and poured the perfume on them. Simon=Lazarus didn’t seem too concerned that this woman of ill repute had simple walked in off the street into the dining room where he was entertaining his friend who is known to have stayed at his house whenever he and his entourage came down from Galilee, where Simon and his family had quite possibly once lived. But again the woman is un-named’

It is John who reveals who this woman is, who is generally regarded to have been Mary Magdalene; John 11: 1, “A man named Lazarus (Simon who contacted the terminal skin disease) who lived in the town of Bethany became sick. Bethany was the town where Mary and her sister Martha lived. This Mary was the one (Who as Luke had recorded) who poured the perfume on the Lord’s feet and wiped them with her hair; it was her brother Lazarus-Simon who was sick, etc.” John 12: 12, As with Matthew and Mark, John has the anointing of Jesus in the home of Simon=Lazarus, in the town of Bethany in the week prior to the Passover, with expensive perfume that could have been sold for a large amount of money, in fact 300 silver coins according to both Mark and John.

Every person will record what they have seen or heard according to their own particular view point.
If you were to interview 4 witnesses to the one event you will get 4 different stories, each account given from the stand point of each of the individual witnesses. The foolish detective who takes, the record of but one witness as the truth, and rejects the other three, will never solve the mystery. But the wise detective who accepts all four accounts, realising that each one has given a record of how they remember what they had seen or heard, will come to a clear understanding of what had occurred. Only a fool would accept that Jesus was anointed in the home of his friend who was sick, with a jar of expensive perfume that was valued at 300 silver coins, twice in the week prior to his crucifixion, by two different women.

Mark 15: 40. Among the women who witnessed the death of Jesus were Mary Magdalene, (who is the sister of Lazarus=Simon,) and Mary the mother of James the younger (Of her three biological sons) and Joseph, and Salome. Then he has the women at the burial, being Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joseph the second of her three biological sons, and at the empty tomb after the Sabbath, Mark names the women present, as Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James the younger of her three biological sons, the brother of the Lord who was sired by Cleophas who is also named ‘Alpheaus.’

Luke does not name any of the many women who witnessed the crucifixion, nor does he name who watched Joseph lay out body of Jesus in his own family tomb which had never been used. But Luke does give the names of at least three of the women who went to the empty tomb on the day followering the normal Sabbath which followed the greater Sabbath day of Passover, wherein, the evening and beginning of that day, the sacrifical lamb that had been killed prior to the evening that began the Passover in which every person had to remain in their homes all that day, was eaten, and they were Mary Magdalene, Joanna, and Mary the mother of James the younger, (The brother of the Lord and the first to sit upon the Episcopal throne of the church of the circumcision.)

Matthew has among the women standing by the cross, Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, her other two biological sons, but at the burial of Jesus, Matthew states that sitting facing the tomb, were Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, not other Marys as in more than one other Mary; then at the empty tomb, he has again, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary. Who is this other Mary? It can be none other than Mary the biological Mother of Jesus, Joseph, and James the brother of the Lord, who was sired by Cleophas, and was the younger of the three biological sons of Mary.

And now, knowing that there were only two women by the name Mary at the crucifixion, the burial, and the resurrection, we turn to John who reveals who they are, John 19: 25, Standing close to Jesus’ cross, were his mother and his mother’s sister, sister in law, or half sister, and they were the only two women recorded by all the gospel writers as being there by the name’Mary,’ and they are Mary the wife of Cleophas, who is called Alpheaus who is the biological father of James the brother of the Lord, and Mary Magdalene. One would imagine that Jesus would first appear to his immediate family after his resurrection, which he did. First he appeared to the women at the empty tomb, among who was his mother and his young aunty Mary Magdalene, then to Cleophas and Simon as they walked to Emmaus, and after Simon had recognised the apparent stranger as one of the risen body of the Lord, by the manner in which he broke the bread, they return to Jerusalem where 11 of the disciples were cowering in fear, which included Simon Peter and Simon the patriot , (Thomas Judas who was called the twin ,wasn’t present,) and Cleophas said to them, “He has risen, he appeared to Simon," (the half brother to Jesus and successor to the Episcopal throne of the church of the circumcision).
 
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S-word

Well-Known Member
And who's bragging now???? You tell me...to what degree. By the way, I have relatives in Queensland:kangaroo:

I love anyone who has relatives in my home state of Queensland, the land of the cane toads, more than I could love someone with relatives in New South Wales, the land of the ****-roach. (Coc-a-roach)
 
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S-word

Well-Known Member
Could somebody explain to me why the physical body of Jesus was resurected when it was not nessessary ?

Had you asked, why was it nessessary to resurrect the physical body of Jesus, you may have received a different answer. But because you have added the statement that it wasn't nessessary, you force me to ask you, "What? Because you say it was not nessessary, are we supposed to accept your word that it was not nessessary?
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Quote...starlite[/FONT]​


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Another theocratic family is said to have been near relatives of Jesus, although there is no direct scripture to support this. It is the family of the ‘other Mary,’ a God-fearing woman who was a close companion of Jesus’ mother Mary and who followed Jesus during most of his earthly ministry. She was present at the impalement of Jesus in company with Mary and Salome. It was she and Mary Magdalene who went to anoint Jesus’ body on Nisan 16, but instead the two were privileged to be the first ones to talk with the glorious resurrected Jesus. (Matt. 27:56, 61; 28:1-10) This eager follower of Jesus, Mary, was the wife of one whose name in Aramaic was Clopas but whose name in Greek was, supposedly, AlphaeusJohn 19:25; Mark 16:1; Luke 6:15.[/FONT]​

Apart from the Mary in Rome who is recorded in Romans 16: 6, and who cannot be identified, there are only two other women by the name ‘Mary’ in the New Testament, John whom Jesus surnamed ‘Son of Thunder’ and John who was surnamed ‘Mark,’ which name means ‘Hammer,’ are one and the same. And Mary, whom Jesus trusted to the care of John the beloved, is also one and the same with Mary the mother of John surnamed Mark, who is the half sister to Joseph the Levite from Cyprus who was surnamed Barnabas, see Colossians, “Mark, sister’s son to Barnabas,” or ‘John Mark,’ the (Adopted) son to the sister of Barnabas.

After the death of Jesus, see Acts 1: 14, the disciples gathered frequently to pray as a group, together with the women and with Mary the mother of Jesus etc. When Peter was miraculously released from prison, he ran straight to the house where he knew that the brethren would be gathered in prayer for his safety, to the house of Mary the mother of John ‘Mark,’ see Acts 12, 12.

Matthew 26: 6, has an un-named woman anointing Jesus in the home of Simon with the dreaded skin disease in the town of Bethany in the week prior to the Passover, with an alabaster jar filled with expensive perfume that could have been sold for a large amount of money. Mark 14: 3, also has Jesus in the home of Simon with the terminal skin disease from which he died, in the town of Bethany in the week prior to the Passover, being anointed with expensive perfume valued at 300 silver coins, by an unnamed woman.

Lazarus which name means ‘without help’ or ‘terminal,’ is one and same as Simon with the terminal skin disease, from which he died, and the woman as recorded in Luke who had lived a sinful life, who is generally believed to have been Mary Magdalene a reformed prostitute, is seen at the feet of Jesus, crying and wetting his feet with her tears. Then she dried his feet with her hair, kissed them, and poured the perfume on them. Simon=Lazarus didn’t seem too concerned that this woman of ill repute had simple walked in off the street into the dining room where he was entertaining his friend who is known to have stayed at his house whenever he and his entourage came down from Galilee, where Simon and his family had quite possibly once lived. But again the woman is un-named’

It is John who reveals who this woman is, who is generally regarded to have been Mary Magdalene; John 11: 1, “A man named Lazarus (Simon who contacted the terminal skin disease) who lived in the town of Bethany became sick. Bethany was the town where Mary and her sister Martha lived. This Mary was the one (Who as Luke had recorded) who poured the perfume on the Lord’s feet and wiped them with her hair; it was her brother Lazarus-Simon who was sick, etc.” John 12: 12, As with Matthew and Mark, John has the anointing of Jesus in the home of Simon=Lazarus, in the town of Bethany in the week prior to the Passover, with expensive perfume that could have been sold for a large amount of money, in fact 300 silver coins according to both Mark and John.

Every person will record what they have seen or heard according to their own particular view point.
If you were to interview 4 witnesses to the one event you will get 4 different stories, each account given from the stand point of each of the individual witnesses. The foolish detective who takes, the record of but one witness as the truth, and rejects the other three, will never solve the mystery. But the wise detective who accepts all four accounts, realising that each one has given a record of how they remember what they had seen or heard, will come to a clear understanding of what had occurred. Only a fool would accept that Jesus was anointed in the home of his friend who was sick, with a jar of expensive perfume that was valued at 300 silver coins, twice in the week prior to his crucifixion, by two different women.

Mark 15: 40. Among the women who witnessed the death of Jesus were Mary Magdalene, (who is the sister of Lazarus=Simon,) and Mary the mother of James the younger (Of her three biological sons) and Joseph, and Salome. Then he has the women at the burial, being Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joseph the second of her three biological sons, and at the empty tomb after the Sabbath, Mark names the women present, as Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James the younger of her three biological sons, the brother of the Lord who was sired by Cleophas who is also named ‘Alpheaus.’

they were Mary Magdalene, Joanna, and Mary the mother of James the younger, (The brother of the Lord and the first to sit upon the Episcopal throne of the church of the circumcision.)

Matthew has among the women standing by the cross, Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, her other two biological sons, but at the burial of Jesus, Matthew states that sitting facing the tomb, were Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, not other Marys as in more than one other Mary; then at the empty tomb, he has again, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary. Who is this other Mary? It can be none other than Mary the biological Mother of Jesus, Joseph, and James the brother of the Lord, who was sired by Cleophas, and was the younger of the three biological sons of Mary.

And now, knowing that there were only two women by the name Mary at the crucifixion, the burial, and the resurrection, we turn to John who reveals who they are, John 19: 25, Standing close to Jesus’ cross, were his mother and his mother’s sister, sister in law, or half sister, and they were the only two women recorded by all the gospel writers as being there by the name’Mary,’ and they are Mary the wife of Cleophas, who is called Alpheaus who is the biological father of James the brother of the Lord, and Mary Magdalene. One would imagine that Jesus would first appear to his immediate family after his resurrection, which he did. First he appeared to the women at the empty tomb, among who was his mother and his young aunty Mary Magdalene, then to Cleophas and Simon as they walked to Emmaus, and after Simon had recognised the apparent stranger as one of the risen body of the Lord, by the manner in which he broke the bread, they return to Jerusalem where 11 of the disciples were cowering in fear, which included Simon Peter and Simon the patriot , (Thomas Judas who was called the twin ,wasn’t present,) and Cleophas said to them, “He has risen, he appeared to Simon," (the half brother to Jesus and successor to the Episcopal throne of the church of the circumcision).

This is incorrect. John and his brother James were both surnamed Zebedee. Since John Mark is associated with the house in Jerusalem where Jesus had His last supper, it is difficult to associate him with Peter who was from Galilee.

There were three Alpheus brothers who were apostles. James the lesser was one, Levi also called Matthew another, Judas not Iscariot author of Jude the third. It would be no wonder if their mother followed also.

I didn't know Thomas was associated with Jude. Do you have the reference for that?

I think your evidence is very loose for some of your family associations.

Luke 24:10 Now they were Mary Magdalene, and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James: and the other women with them told these things unto the apostles.
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
Quote.... Muffled----This is incorrect. John and his brother James were both surnamed Zebedee. Since John Mark is associated with the house in Jerusalem where Jesus had His last supper, it is difficult to associate him with Peter who was from Galilee.

There were three Alpheus brothers who were apostles. James the lesser was one, Levi also called Matthew another, Judas not Iscariot author of Jude the third. It would be no wonder if their mother followed also.

I didn't know Thomas was associated with Jude. Do you have the reference for that?

I think your evidence is very loose for some of your family associations. Thomas comes from an Aramaic word for twin, Didymus is the greek word for twin, both appellations signify that Jude the brother of James was a twin, or was called the twin because he held a striking resemblance to someone.

Luke 24:10 Now they were Mary Magdalene, and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James: and the other women with them told these things unto the apostles.......End Quote.

Righty O, you begin your post with, “This is incorrect. John and his brother James were both surnamed Zebedee. Since John Mark is associated with the house in Jerusalem where Jesus had His last supper, it is difficult to associate him with Peter who was from Galilee.” What is incorrect? Where have I said anything that contradicts the known fact that Zebedee was the father of James and John who was surnamed by Jesus ‘Sons of Thunder’ and later, John was surnamed ‘Mark the Hammer?’ Nor did I categorically deny starlite's claim that Salome (The feminine for Solomon of the tribe of Judah) was the wife of Zebedee and the mother of James and John, but I cannot find any supporting evidence to that claim, nor to her claim (Which I do Deny) that Salome was the sister of Mary the daughter of Heli the Levite.
And could you possibly show any supporting evidence yourself, of any connection between John the son of Zebedee from Galilee, who was surnamed ‘Hammer’ and the house in which they ate their last meal on the night before the Passover lambs were slaughtered which would be eaten by the Jews as Jesus, the reality of the Passover Lamb, was being laid in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea.

Quote....MuffledI----------- didn't know Thomas was associated with Jude. Do you have the reference for that?

If you would care to Google up, “Thomas the twin=Didymus,” you will receive your answer.


Quote....Muffled-------There were three Alpheus brothers who were apostles. James the lesser was one, Levi also called Matthew another, Judas not Iscariot author of Jude the third. It would be no wonder if their mother followed also.
Correct, as I had already stated, Alpheus=Cleophas, already had two sons before he married Mary and sired James the third and the younger of her three biological son, namely Jesus, Joseph and James the younger, who is the brother of the Lord, and the two sons of Clwophas=Alphaeus were Thomas Didymus Jude and Simon who was with his father as they walked to Emmaus, of whom Cleophas said to the 11 disciples (Thomas Didymus Jude was not present) who had locked themselves in a dimly lit room, “He has risen, he appeared to Simon.” This had to have been Simon the son of Cleophas who succeeded James the brother of the Lord to the Episcopal throne of the church of Jerusalem. Thomas Didymus Jude, is also called, 'Thaddeaus and Lebbaeus' and is the brother of James according to Luke 6: 16, in the King James translation, and is believed, as you yourself have qouted, to be the author of the Epistle of Jude, who is said to be ‘the brother of James who is the brother of the Lord’ as transcribed in the King James, the Amplified, the Living New Testament and the Revised Standard translations and well as others.
It could be that there is no relationship between Levi who is called Matthew, and Cleophas=Alphaeus, who was the second husband of Mary the mother of James the Lord's brother, I’m off to check it out, as there would have been more than one man named Alpheaus in Israel at that time.

Quote... MuffledI think your evidence is very loose for some of your family associations.

You must believe what you choose to believe, but I have written what I have written.
 
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starlite

Texasgirl
Matthew 26: 6, has an un-named woman anointing Jesus in the home of Simon with the dreaded skin disease in the town of Bethany in the week prior to the Passover, with an alabaster jar filled with expensive perfume that could have been sold for a large amount of money. Mark 14: 3, also has Jesus in the home of Simon with the terminal skin disease from which he died, in the town of Bethany in the week prior to the Passover, being anointed with expensive perfume valued at 300 silver coins, by an unnamed woman.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mary Magdalene. Her distinguishing name (meaning “Of (Belonging to) Magdala”) likely stems from the town of Magdala on the western shore of the Sea of Galilee about halfway between Capernaum and Tiberias. There is no record of Jesus’ ever visiting this town, though he spent a great deal of time in the surrounding area. Nor is it certain that it was Mary’s hometown or place of residence. Since Luke refers to her as “Mary [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]the[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]so-called[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] Magdalene,” some think he implies something special or peculiar.—Lu 8:2.[/FONT]​
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Jesus expelled seven demons from Mary Magdalene, reason enough for her to put faith in him as the Messiah and for her to back up such faith with outstanding works of devotion and service.--Luke 8:1-3[/FONT]​
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Magdala (possibly Magadan) is considered to be Khirbet Majdal (Migdal), about 6 km (3.5 mi) NNW of Tiberias on the Sea of Galilee. Located near the fork formed by the road running along the Sea of Galilee from Tiberias and the one coming down from the western hills, this site occupies a strategic position. Ruins of a relatively modern tower found there indicate that Majdal once guarded the southern entrance to the Plain of Gennesaret. Both Majdal and Magdala (a form of the Hebrew [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]migh·dal´[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]) mean “Tower.” This place is often suggested as the home of Mary Magdalene.[/FONT]​


Lazarus....Simon:


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif](Laz´a·rus) [probably the Gr. form of the Heb. name Eleazar, meaning “God Has Helped”].[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]It is common knowledge that the religious leaders wanted to seize Jesus to put him to death. In fact, they had given orders that if anyone learns his whereabouts, they are to report it to them. Three times—at the Festival of Tabernacles, at the Festival of Dedication, and after he resurrected Lazarus—these leaders have tried to kill him. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]In the meantime, Jesus arrives at Bethany six days before the Passover, which falls on Nisan 14 according to the Jewish calendar. Jesus reaches Bethany sometime Friday evening, which is at the beginning of Nisan 8. He could not have made the trip to Bethany on Saturday because travel on the Sabbath—from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday—is restricted by Jewish law. Jesus probably goes to the home of Lazarus, as he has done before, and spends Friday night there.[/FONT]​
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]However, another resident of Bethany invites Jesus and his companions for a meal Saturday evening. The man is Simon, a former leper, who earlier had perhaps been healed by Jesus.[/FONT]​
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Jesus has been in Bethany now more than 24 hours, and word of his presence has spread about. Therefore,[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] many come to Simon’s house to see Jesus, but they also come to see Lazarus, who is present too.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] So the chief priests take counsel to kill not only Jesus but Lazarus as well. This is because many people are putting faith in Jesus because of seeing alive the one whom he raised from the dead! [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:55–12:11;[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]26:6-13;[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mark[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]14:3-9[/FONT]​
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 11:1:[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]This scripture addresses that is was Mary the sister of Lazarus who dried Jesus' feet with her hair.[/FONT]​
 

starlite

Texasgirl

Nor did I categorically deny starlite's claim that Salome (The feminine for Solomon of the tribe of Judah) was the wife of Zebedee and the mother of James and John, but I cannot find any supporting evidence to that claim, nor to her claim (Which I do Deny) that Salome was the sister of Mary the daughter of Heli the Levite.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]A comparison of Matthew 27:56 with Mark 15:40 may indicate that Salome was the mother of the sons of Zebedee—James and John, who were apostles of Jesus Christ. The former text names two of the Marys, namely, Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James (the Less) and of Joses; and with these it also mentions the mother of the sons of Zebedee as being present at Jesus’ impalement; while the latter text names the woman with the two Marys as Salome.[/FONT]​
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]It is conjectured on similar grounds that Salome was also the fleshly sister of Mary, the mother of Jesus. This has been suggested because the scripture at John 19:25 names the same two Marys, Mary Magdalene and “the wife of Clopas” (generally understood to be the mother of James the Less and of Joses), and also says: “By the torture stake of Jesus, however, there were standing his mother and the sister of his mother.” If this text (aside from mentioning Jesus’ mother) is speaking of the same three persons mentioned by Matthew and Mark, it would indicate that Salome was the sister of Jesus’ mother. On the other hand, Matthew 27:55 and Mark 15:40, 41 state that there were many other women present who had accompanied Jesus, and therefore Salome may have been among them.[/FONT]​
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Salome was a disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ, among the women accompanying him and ministering to him from their belongings, as Matthew, Mark, and Luke (8:3) imply.[/FONT]​
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]If her identification as the mother of Zebedee’s sons is accurate, she was the one who approached Jesus with the request that her sons be granted seats on the right and the left of Jesus in his Kingdom. Matthew depicts the mother as making the request, while Mark shows James and John doing the asking. Apparently the boys had the desire and induced their mother to make the request. This is supported by Matthew’s report that, on hearing about the request, the other disciples became indignant, not at the mother, but at the two brothers.—Mt 20:20-24; Mr 10:35-41.

[/FONT]​
 

starlite

Texasgirl
It could be that there is no relationship between Levi who is called Matthew, and Cleophas=Alphaeus, who was the second husband of Mary the mother of James the Lord's brother, I’m off to check it out, as there would have been more than one man named Alpheaus in Israel at that time.

Al·phae′us).

1. The father of the apostle Matthew Levi, the tax collector.—Mt 9:9; Mr 2:14.

2. The father of James the Less, the 9th listed of the 12 apostles. (Mt 10:3; Mr 3:18; Lu 6:15; Ac 1:13) Many scholars are supported by tradition in the general belief that Alphaeus was the same person as Clopas (Joh 19:25), which would also make him the husband of “the other Mary.” (Mt 27:56; 28:1; Mr 15:40; 16:1; Lu 24:10) Either a variation in pronunciation of the root word or the individual’s having had two names, a common thing in those days, would explain this difference.

Evidently two different individuals.
 

starlite

Texasgirl
who was the second husband of Mary the mother of James the Lord's brother, I’m off to check it out, as there would have been more than one man named Alpheaus in Israel at that time.

James:

1. Father of the apostle Judas (not Judas Iscariot).—Lu 6:16; Ac 1:13.

2. Son of Zebedee; brother of John and one of the 12 apostles of Jesus Christ. (Mt 10:2)

3. Another apostle of Jesus Christ and son of Alphaeus. (Mt 10:2, 3; Mr 3:18; Lu 6:15; Ac 1:13) He may have been called James the Less because of being either smaller in physical stature or younger in age than the other apostle James, the son of Zebedee.

4. Son of Joseph and Mary, and half brother of Jesus. (Mr 6:3; Ga 1:19) That it was this ‘brother of Jesus’ who wrote the book of James, and not one of the apostles by the same name (either the son of Zebedee or the son of Alphaeus), seems to be indicated at the beginning of his letter. His being called “James the Just” is based on traditions that say he was so designated because of his way of life. There is no record in the Scriptures of James’ death. The secular historian Josephus, however, says that during the interval between the death of Governor Festus, about 62 C.E., and the arrival of his successor Albinus, the high priest, Ananus (Ananias), “convened the judges of the Sanhedrin and brought before them a man named James, the brother of Jesus who was called the Christ, and certain others. He accused them of having transgressed the law and delivered them up to be stoned.”—Jewish Antiquities, XX, 200 (ix, 1).
 

S-word

Well-Known Member

It could be that there is no relationship between Levi who is called Matthew, and Cleophas=Alphaeus, who was the second husband of Mary the mother of James the Lord's brother, I’m off to check it out, as there would have been more than one man named Alpheaus in Israel at that time.

Al·phae′us).

1. The father of the apostle Matthew Levi, the tax collector.—Mt 9:9; Mr 2:14.

2. The father of James the Less, the 9th listed of the 12 apostles. (Mt 10:3; Mr 3:18; Lu 6:15; Ac 1:13) Many scholars are supported by tradition in the general belief that Alphaeus was the same person as Clopas (Joh 19:25), which would also make him the husband of “the other Mary.” (Mt 27:56; 28:1; Mr 15:40; 16:1; Lu 24:10) Either a variation in pronunciation of the root word or the individual’s having had two names, a common thing in those days, would explain this difference.

Evidently two different individuals.


The three biological sons of Mary, are Jesus, Joseph and 'James the younger brother of Jesus,' who was sired by Cleophas=Alphaeus the second husband of Mary.

The other Mary referred to by Matthew at the burial of her son, and at the empty tomb on Sunday morning, is the same Mary who he stated was at the cross and she was Mary the mother of (Jesus) James the younger of her three biological sons and young Joseph, the son and namesake of his father, who was the first husband of Mary. Are you having difficulty accepting God's word, that James who is the brother and of the same womb as Jesus, was sired by Cleophas who is also called Alphaeus, and that Mary the wife of Cleophas, who was at the cross of Jesus with her sister or sister in law, Mary magdalene who could have possibly been the sister of Cleophas, who would have lived up in Galilee, where he would have met Mary who only came down to Jerusalem with her sons on the special festivals. This would make Cleophas the brother of Simon=Lazarus, who may have originally came from the NW of Galilee where Jesus spent the majority of his life and where he performed most of the miracles during his ministry, see Matthew 11: 20-21.
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
1. Father of the apostle Judas (not Judas Iscariot).—Lu 6:16; Ac 1:13.

2. Son of Zebedee; brother of John and one of the 12 apostles of Jesus Christ. (Mt 10:2)

3. Another apostle of Jesus Christ and son of Alphaeus. (Mt 10:2, 3; Mr 3:18; Lu 6:15; Ac 1:13) He may have been called James the Less because of being either smaller in physical stature or younger in age than the other apostle James, the son of Zebedee.

4. Son of Joseph and Mary, and half brother of Jesus. (Mr 6:3; Ga 1:19) That it was this ‘brother of Jesus’ who wrote the book of James, and not one of the apostles by the same name (either the son of Zebedee or the son of Alphaeus), seems to be indicated at the beginning of his letter. His being called “James the Just” is based on traditions that say he was so designated because of his way of life. There is no record in the Scriptures of James’ death. The secular historian Josephus, however, says that during the interval between the death of Governor Festus, about 62 C.E., and the arrival of his successor Albinus, the high priest, Ananus (Ananias), “convened the judges of the Sanhedrin and brought before them a man named James, the brother of Jesus who was called the Christ, and certain others. He accused them of having transgressed the law and delivered them up to be stoned.”—Jewish Antiquities, XX, 200 (ix, 1).


Righto, let’s have a look at what you’re trying to say here:
Number 1. The two verses that you quote, Luke 6: 16, and Acts 1: 13, in the King James translation, state that ‘Jude is the brother of James’ and James is the son of Alphaeus=Cleophas, and I believe that every translation that I have read, state that the author of the Epistle of Jude, is Jude the brother of James the son of Cleophas=Alphaeus, who is the brother of Jesus. But it’s your choice whether or not you wish to believe the greater majority of the transcribers, of the New Testament.

Number 2. James the son of Zebedee, who was killed by Herod Agrippa, as you undoubtedly know, has no relationship to James the son of Alphaeus=Claophas, except in the fact that they were both among the 12 chosen disciples of Jesus.

Number 3. This is the same James as in number 1, who the greater majority of translations state, is the brother of Jude, and not the ‘father’ as claimed in Number 1.

Number 4. Is not the son of Joseph the first husband of the Lord's mother, who sired only one son to Mary, and he was young Joseph of who we know nothing, except that he was the second biological son of Mary and the half brother to Jesus. But James number 4, is the son of Mary and the brother of Jesus, and this James, who is the younger of Mary’s three biological sons, was sired by Alphaeus=Cleophas, and is, as you have said, the brother of Jesus who wrote the Epistle of James, but contrary to your further statement, he was one of the chosen twelve. ‘James the Just,’ is the younger brother of Jesus who was born of Mary the wife of Cleophas, and who, according to Eusebius who quotes from Hegesippus, unequivocally speaks of James the brother of Jesus as the first to sit in the Episcopal throne of the church of circumcision in Jerusalem. This is borne out by Josephus the historian who, as you have said, describes the unjust execution of James at the hands of a Sadduean high priest in 62 AD. James was subsequently succeeded by Simon the Son of Cleophas.
 
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