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Utah Student Disrupts Government Auction of 150,000 Acres of Wilderness for Oil & Gas Drilling

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
This is sooooo awesome. :) While environmental groups were doing the same-old, same-old protesting, this dude did some highly creative and effective civil disobedience.

Democracy Now! | Posing as a Bidder, Utah Student Disrupts Government Auction of 150,000 Acres of Wilderness for Oil & Gas Drilling

TIM DeCHRISTOPHER: I started off, actually, at a final exam at the university and went straight from there down to the BLM office. And I saw some protesters walking back and forth outside, and I knew that I wanted to do more than that and that this kind of injustice demanded a higher level of disruption. And so, I just decided that I wanted to go inside and cause a bigger disruption.

And from there, I found it really easy to get inside and become a bidder, and went inside and was in the auction room. And once I was in there, I realized that any kind of speech or disruption or something like that wasn’t going to be very effective, but I saw pretty quickly that I could have a pretty major impact on the way this worked. And it just took me a little bit of time to build up the courage to do that, knowing what the consequences would be. And so, I started bidding and started driving up the prices for some of the oil companies. And throughout that time, I knew that I could be doing more and could really set aside some acres to really be protected. And so, then I started winning bids and disrupting it as clearly as I could.
 

Joe_Stocks

Back from the Dead
Instead of a silly protesrt why don't liberals get some of their rich friends together and actually buy the land?
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
I agree. Also, how did that retard get into the auction? Where was security?
If the "retard" could get into the auction, what does that say for how the Bush administration has been running things?:sarcastic They were so eager to sell thousand of acres of land right next to national parks that they let anyone in to bid.
 

Apex

Somewhere Around Nothing
If the "retard" could get into the auction, what does that say for how the Bush administration has been running things?:sarcastic They were so eager to sell thousand of acres of land right next to national parks that they let anyone in to bid.
Ok, to be fair, do you really think the Bush administration was directly responsible for the security and personnel running the auction?
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
Ok, to be fair, do you really think the Bush administration was directly responsible for the security and personnel running the auction?
I think the Bush administration authorized the sale of hundreds of thousands of acres of protected land, bordering several national parks (OUR national parks) without even contacting the National Park Service beforehand to see if they would have any objections. I think they were so eager to sell the lands before the end of Bush's term that they did not follow the necessary procedures and thus it is not at all surprising that they would hire people who don't know how to run security at an auction either.
 

MoonWater

Warrior Bard
Premium Member
how was the government able to sell off the land, especially if it's so close to protected land? Also is there a way that obama and/or his administration would be able to to get that land back? Or some other way WE can get it back?

By the way, if that could were an RF member I would be giving him oodles of frubals right now.
 

Natas

Active Member
how was the government able to sell off the land, especially if it's so close to protected land? Also is there a way that obama and/or his administration would be able to to get that land back? Or some other way WE can get it back?

By the way, if that could were an RF member I would be giving him oodles of frubals right now.


Sure Obama can get the land back...all they have to do is fork over millions of taxpayer dollars to pay the buyers. I don't think that even Obama is foolhardy enough to do that.
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
how was the government able to sell off the land, especially if it's so close to protected land?
By an appalling lack of accountability.

On Election Day, while the nation's attention was almost unanimously focused elsewhere, the U.S. Bureau of Land Management (BLM) announced that they would be auctioning more than 50,000 acres of land within close proximity to three National Parks in Utah for oil and gas drilling rights. They did this without even telling the National Park Service beforehand. Their argument was that they didn't think that the NPS would object, so there was no need to tell them. The head of the Park Service in Utah, otoh, said that he most definitely would have objected if they had been asked beforehand. (Typical Bush administration modus operandi.)


Also is there a way that obama and/or his administration would be able to to get that land back?
If the auctions had gone thru, it would be extremely difficult for Obama to undo the damage (which is why they scheduled the sale for before the inauguration). The govt can't go back on it's word even if the administration changes because it destroys confidence in doing business with the govt.

But because of what this student did, much of the land was not auctioned to real buyers. And in the auctions where real buyers won, because they paid a higher price that they would have had the auction not been "tampered with," they don't have to go thru with the transaction. Some probably still will pay the higher price to get the land, but the dude single-handedly saved tens of thousands of acres.


By the way, if that could were an RF member I would be giving him oodles of frubals right now.
Yeah, me too! :D
 

3.14

Well-Known Member
so let me get this straight this guy broke the law bought things he couldn't pay for made everyone els pay more for there part and might get away with it yet.... has this guy thought about running for senator?



ps.
he might not be a member here but there is no reason to let fruballs go to waste so il take the task of removing all those leftover fruballs :D
 

MoonWater

Warrior Bard
Premium Member
By an appalling lack of accountability.

On Election Day, while the nation's attention was almost unanimously focused elsewhere, the U.S. Bureau of Land Management (BLM) announced that they would be auctioning more than 50,000 acres of land within close proximity to three National Parks in Utah for oil and gas drilling rights. They did this without even telling the National Park Service beforehand. Their argument was that they didn't think that the NPS would object, so there was no need to tell them. The head of the Park Service in Utah, otoh, said that he most definitely would have objected if they had been asked beforehand. (Typical Bush administration modus operandi.)


If the auctions had gone thru, it would be extremely difficult for Obama to undo the damage (which is why they scheduled the sale for before the inauguration). The govt can't go back on it's word even if the administration changes because it destroys confidence in doing business with the govt.

But because of what this student did, much of the land was not auctioned to real buyers. And in the auctions where real buyers won, because they paid a higher price that they would have had the auction not been "tampered with," they don't have to go thru with the transaction. Some probably still will pay the higher price to get the land, but the dude single-handedly saved tens of thousands of acres.


Yeah, me too! :D

Couldn't they just hold a "re-auction" or something like that to sell off the land, just do the auctioning process all over again?
 

MoonWater

Warrior Bard
Premium Member
The "Dude" should have to spend some quality jail time for what he did.

There's no doubt he broke the law, but in doing so it seems as though he's saved thousands of acres of land from being destroyed by oil drillers and what not. Are you saying he should go to jail because you feel what the kid did was actually "wrong" "morally" or simply because he broke the law and should be punished like every lawbreaker?
 

Natas

Active Member
There's no doubt he broke the law, but in doing so it seems as though he's saved thousands of acres of land from being destroyed by oil drillers and what not. Are you saying he should go to jail because you feel what the kid did was actually "wrong" "morally" or simply because he broke the law and should be punished like every lawbreaker?

It always amuses me to hear about the "evil oil drillers", etc. Are you another one who thinks that the gas you pump into your car every week just magically shows up at the gas station? I see you did jump on the bandwagon of people who think thousands of acres of land were somehow "saved". Saved from what exactly? If you personally are so concerned about "saving" this acreage, then why not switch to a horse-drawn carriage, or bicycle?
Think of all the land you could "save".

To your second point; yes, I feel he has broken the law regardless of his intentions, and should be punished. As to his being wrong morally, no, I don't think so. He was doing what he believed in evidently. Regardless of the stupidity of his actions.
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
Couldn't they just hold a "re-auction" or something like that to sell off the land, just do the auctioning process all over again?
Yes, they could. But there are certain procedures to follow and because of that, they won't be able to pull it off before the inauguration. :p


It always amuses me to hear about the "evil oil drillers", etc.
I'm glad you're easily amused. I don't recall anyone talking about "evil oil drillers" in this thread tho.


Are you another one who thinks that the gas you pump into your car every week just magically shows up at the gas station? I see you did jump on the bandwagon of people who think thousands of acres of land were somehow "saved". Saved from what exactly? If you personally are so concerned about "saving" this acreage, then why not switch to a horse-drawn carriage, or bicycle?
Think of all the land you could "save".
I know this diatribe was directed at Moonwater, but I would like to respond as well. I know that any gas we use needs to come from somewhere. However, I don't think that we should be using gas anymore. I think we should begin phasing it out in favor of renewable energy sources. You are willing to set up oil wells on the borders of some of our most fragile national parks in order to get just a bit more gas for your car. The problem is that is a temporary solution while the ecological damage would be permanent.

Fossil fuels are going to run out. Think about it. They are made out of animals who died ages ago and were trapped in the earth. It is not a renewable resource, and we are burning thru in a matter of decades what took hundreds of thousands of years to make. The rational thing would be to find an alternative sources of energy.


To your second point; yes, I feel he has broken the law regardless of his intentions, and should be punished. As to his being wrong morally, no, I don't think so. He was doing what he believed in evidently. Regardless of the stupidity of his actions.
Just because you don't approve doesn't make his actions stupid. I thought he was brilliant. And yes, I could admit that even if he did something that I was against, because it was the simple effectiveness that was the brilliant part.

Laws and govt were made to promote justice. So if either fails to do that and instead is unjust, then one's duty is to oppose the govt and break the law. Our nation was founded on that principle. That said, I do agree that when one breaks the law, one must be ready to submit to the penalty (as long as it's not unreasonable). If he ends up going to jail for a few months, I'm not going to say that's a moral outrage. He broke the law. But I'm still gonna say that what he did was awesome and call him a hero! :angel2:
 

MoonWater

Warrior Bard
Premium Member
It always amuses me to hear about the "evil oil drillers", etc. Are you another one who thinks that the gas you pump into your car every week just magically shows up at the gas station? I see you did jump on the bandwagon of people who think thousands of acres of land were somehow "saved". Saved from what exactly? If you personally are so concerned about "saving" this acreage, then why not switch to a horse-drawn carriage, or bicycle?
Think of all the land you could "save".

To your second point; yes, I feel he has broken the law regardless of his intentions, and should be punished. As to his being wrong morally, no, I don't think so. He was doing what he believed in evidently. Regardless of the stupidity of his actions.


I am perfectly aware of where gas comes from however I am also aware that there are other alternatives to fossil fuels that don't require us to destroy fragile eco systems by drilling holes in them and that we need to get ourselves of of our oil addiction anyway because, like lilithu said, the fossil fuels are running out. And no I don't consider oil drillers "evil", indeed I have no use for the term for anyone or anything as I have yet to come across any person or thing that fits my personal definition of evil so please don't go putting words in my mouth, I did not call them evil, merely pointed out the fact that their drilling would have destroyed, irreprably, thousands of acres of natural ecosystems just to feed our oil addiction, an act made all the more heinous by the fact that there are alternatives to fossil feuls that are much better for the environment. And I'm not talking about alternatives like ridding your bike, I'm talking about alternatives like electric or maybe even solar powered cars and also what I believe some countries in europe use, an oil made out of corn that's completely bio-degradable and doesn't give off any noxious fumes.
 
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MoonWater

Warrior Bard
Premium Member
Yes, they could. But there are certain procedures to follow and because of that, they won't be able to pull it off before the inauguration. :p

woohoo!!!:woohoo::clap2:

Edit: and I take it after the inauguration it won't be able to continue going through because there would be no one around to back it up?
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
Edit: and I take it after the inauguration it won't be able to continue going through because there would be no one around to back it up?
The general expectation is that once Obama's administration is in office, they will not pursue such a misguided policy. The Bush administration tried to do it (in a hurry) because they knew that the Obama administration would not.
 
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