• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Redefining Contraception as Abortion

Vasilisa Jade

Formerly Saint Tigeress
http://www.speaker.gov/blog/?p=1441

I don't usually get heated about political things but this is just nuts. Women were liberated from reliance on their husbands and entrapment in unhappy and abusive marriages largely in part due to birth control availability. They were able to get into the work force since weren't viewed as flaming loaded guns any more, ready to pop out a baby and be a pain in the butt at least once a year... Working moms still get discriminated agianst in some areas by employers. Attacking unwanted pregnancy prevention and planned parenthood is just the most psychotic thing I have ever heard, unless you're a radical religious person.

Some people think that the availability of contraception has led to rampant sexual immorality, increased the divorce rate, and has assisted in breaking down the family unit in general. They simply look at the statistics regarding divorce rates from before contraception and compare it to after. The daggum flippin people were just as immoral. Women were trapped though. They couldn't get a job because they had 5 or 6 kids, and even if they tried they would get laughed at, cause all they did was stay at home and make flippin babies. During or shortly after WW2 I think, was around the time contraception became available, and women were brought into the work force to help compensate for the deployed men. Once they got settled in and were able to support themselves, suprise! The divorce rate began to climb, cause if they were unhappy at home they said "Screw you." Instead of cowering, if something ticked them off they fought back. Sometime in that general period was when the "No Fault" thing went into effect too.

Sorry I'm ranting. This is just so crazy.
 

Vasilisa Jade

Formerly Saint Tigeress
Exactly, but the way Bush is pushing this, it doesn't get voted on or even gets a say from congress. Kind of like the way he pushed that crap with auctioning off public land to the oil companies in the thread below this one. It's some stupid loop hole method for him to play dictator, and push through as much crap as he can before he gets bumped out of office. I guess he is trying to leave his mark on the oval office... like a **** stain or something...
 

dawny0826

Mother Heathen
Bush is going to be out of office in what...two weeks? I'm not worried about this and I can't fathom such laws "flying".

Pelosi's comment here, makes me want to barf, though. Let's join the Democrats and their campaign to assist with family planning and the prevention of unintended pregnancies. :rolleyes:

I suppose I'll be the only one who has a gripe with Pelosi making such a comment but whatever.

I urge the President to reject this policy and join with Democrats to focus on preventing unintended pregnancies and reducing the need for abortion through increasing access to family planning services and access to affordable birth control.
 
Last edited:

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Bush is going to be out of office in what...two weeks? I'm not worried about this and I can't fathom such laws "flying".

Pelosi's comment here, makes me want to barf, though. Let's join the Democrats and their campaign to assist with family planning and the prevention of unintended pregnancies. :rolleyes:

I suppose I'll be the only one who has a gripe with Pelosi making such a comment but whatever.

What's the issue?
 

dawny0826

Mother Heathen
For the record, Saint Tigress, I'm with you. I agree that this is crazy and this sort of ignorant bs makes me angry too.

But for crying out loud, how on earth can contraception even be redefined as abortion? It's PREVENTION. This makes no sense to me, whatsoever.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
I don't like Pelosi and I find it ironic that she'd make such a comment. What has she done in her career to push PREVENTION of unwanted pregnancies?

I'm not defending her or anything, I was just curious where you were coming from. What did she do in your eyes to make her comment ironic?
 

Zatarra

Dauphin
I don't like Pelosi and I find it ironic that she'd make such a comment. What has she done in her career to push PREVENTION of unwanted pregnancies?
Pelosi personally? I don't know. But the government can increase "access to family planning services and access to affordable birth control" exactly like she said. What's unclear about this?
 

dawny0826

Mother Heathen
I'm not defending her or anything, I was just curious where you were coming from. What did she do in your eyes to make her comment ironic?

What are the Democrats really doing to assist with the prevention of unwanted pregnancies? They bash the hell out of the "abstinence-only" message from the right. Granted, they're more apt to support educational programs...

Still, I found the comment ironic coming from a woman who continues to support the legalization of abortion and has voted against the partial birth abortion ban. I find it ironic that she's commenting on pregnancy prevention, when her track record shows that her greater focus is abortion.
 
Last edited:

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
What are the Democrats really doing to assist with the prevention of unwanted pregnancies? They bash the hell out of the "abstinence-only" message from the right. Granted, they're more apt to support educational programs...

Still, I found the comment ironic coming from a woman who continues to support the legalization of abortion and has voted against the partial birth abortion ban. I find it ironic that she's commenting on pregnancy prevention, when her track record shows that her greater focus is abortion.

Oh, is that what the problem is? There is nothing wrong with abstinence if that's someone's personal choice, but promoting it as the only solution to the problem while discouraging the use of contraceptives is ineffective, unrealistic, and irresponsible. It's like closing down hospitals and asking the public to rely on prayer and faith healing for their medical needs. And how exactly is preventing unwanted pregnancies contrary to abortion rights? That doesn't even make sense.
 
Last edited:

Alceste

Vagabond
For the record, Saint Tigress, I'm with you. I agree that this is crazy and this sort of ignorant bs makes me angry too.

But for crying out loud, how on earth can contraception even be redefined as abortion? It's PREVENTION. This makes no sense to me, whatsoever.

The devil's in the details. If you claim human life begins with the fertilisation of an egg, before implantation, than anything that interferes with the implantation of a fertilised egg, like for example the pill (or any other hormone-based contraceptive), is "murder". If you believe pregnancy starts at implantation, you're pretty much OK with any contraceptive.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
Oh, is that what the problem is? There is nothing wrong with abstinence if that's someone's personal choice, but promoting it as the only solution to the problem while discouraging the use of contraceptives is ineffective, unrealistic, and irresponsible. It's like closing down hospitals and asking the public to rely on prayer and faith healing for their medical needs. And how exactly is preventing unwanted pregnancies contrary to abortion rights?

Not only that, but according to my favourite advice columnist, Dan Savage, 8 years of concentrated "abstinence" education has resulted in more teens than ever engaging in anal sex (to preserve their "virginity"). As they have not been educated that this is also sex, and is as risky as vaginal intercourse, they don't use any protection, so the other prize of the program is an epidemic of anally or orally transmitted teen STDs.
 

Zatarra

Dauphin
What are the Democrats really doing to assist with the prevention of unwanted pregnancies? They bash the hell out of the "abstinence-only" message from the right. Granted, they're more apt to support educational programs...
Didn't I already answer this? And didn't you just answer it yourself with your last sentence?
 

dawny0826

Mother Heathen
Oh, is that what the problem is? There is nothing wrong with abstinence if that's someone's personal choice, but promoting it as the only solution to the problem while discouraging the use of contraceptives is ineffective, unrealistic, and irresponsible. It's like closing down hospitals and asking the public to rely on prayer and faith healing for their medical needs. And how exactly is preventing unwanted pregnancies contrary to abortion rights? That doesn't even make sense.

No, I think you misunderstand me and If I wasn't clear, I'm sorry. I'm not of the mind-set that the abstinence-only message is a responsible message but let's face it, if you abstain from sex, unwanted pregnancies are a non-issue.

Discouraging the use of contraceptives is repulsive. I personally, believe that if one pushes the benefits of abstaining, they also need to discuss the benefits of contraception. If our nation places more emphasis on the prevention of unwanted pregnancies, we wouldn't need to concern ourselves as much with abortion rights. Does that make better sense? From what I've seen, the Democrats aren't making large, flying leaps to push the benefits of abstainance AND contraception.

I could be wrong.
 
Last edited:

dawny0826

Mother Heathen
The devil's in the details. If you claim human life begins with the fertilisation of an egg, before implantation, than anything that interferes with the implantation of a fertilised egg, like for example the pill (or any other hormone-based contraceptive), is "murder". If you believe pregnancy starts at implantation, you're pretty much OK with any contraceptive.

I believe that human life begins with fertilization and I have no problem with contraception as contraception usuallly prevents fertilization from occuring.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
No, I think you misunderstand me and If I wasn't clear, I'm sorry. I'm not of the mind-set that the abstinence-only message is a responsible message but let's face it, if you abstain from sex, unwanted pregnancies are a non-issue.
Sure, but it's an unrealistic expectation, nor is it effective on a large enough scale.

If our nation places more emphasis on the prevention of unwanted pregnancies, we wouldn't need to concern ourselves as much with abortion rights. Does that make better sense?
Just because someone supports abortion rights doesn't mean they don't also support preventing them in the first place. I fail to see how the two are at odds. It's not an either or situation.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I'd normally send a letter to Congress, but since this one doesn't look like it will pass, I doubt I go that far.
It's pretty dumb though, but then again, it is the Bush Admin.
 
Top