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If all religion is bad...

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
We all have our personal religions. We all have our own definition of truth. Isn't that what "religion" is all about?
No, it's not. Some people have religion, some people don't. I think it's just as flawed to claim that all people have "their own religion" as it is to claim that all people have "their own atheism".

And "definition of truth" <> "religion".

Is it weakness to require the help of a friend? We all walk with a limp. I certainly could use the help... What about you?
Personally, I think that religion is more often the type of "help" that an alcoholic gets from a drink than it is the help of a friend.

And identifying where I don't need help lets me know where to ask for help in a way that would do the most good.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
And how, pray, do you learn what you are taught?
Generally, the things I learn through repetition are the things that involve rote memorization and instinct rather than conscious thought: martial arts kata, pieces of music on the piano, that sort of thing.

Repetition would be very good at teaching you ritual. I don't think it would be very good at teaching theology.
 

tomspug

Absorbant
I personally don't find theology very useful in real life, which is where you use the things for which repetition is important.

For example, you TEACH yourself to say "thank you" after someone does you a service. You cannot grasp the meaning of this ritual until you yourself participate in it.

And. ironically, religion is the typical method through which alcoholics find freedom from their addictions. The "steps" they use ARE ritual, and the most successful programs for alcoholism are run by religious organizations.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I personally don't find theology very useful in real life, which is where you use the things for which repetition is important.

For example, you TEACH yourself to say "thank you" after someone does you a service. You cannot grasp the meaning of this ritual until you yourself participate in it.
Of course you can.

And. ironically, religion is the typical method through which alcoholics find freedom from their addictions. The "steps" they use ARE ritual, and the most successful programs for alcoholism are run by religious organizations.
What you call the "most successful", I'd call the most common. And religion does not equal ritual. You can have one without the other.
 

robtex

Veteran Member
where you use the things for which repetition is important.

You cannot grasp the meaning of this ritual until you yourself participate in it.

.

ok I understand where you are coming from now. Perhaps that could be a good thread one day...the use of ritual as an instrument for productive and/or positive experience.
 

MoonWater

Warrior Bard
Premium Member
Feeling better does not really indicate much, if anything at all. As noted, a drug addict also feels better while indulging his vice. Many other destructive behaviors, including war violence and some all-out violent and despisable crimes, bring feelings of well-being too.


And has ALSO been noted, there is a difference between "feeling good" and "feeling like you're a BETTER PERSON". I doubt an alcoholic would say they are a "better person" because of the alcohol.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
And has ALSO been noted, there is a difference between "feeling good" and "feeling like you're a BETTER PERSON". I doubt an alcoholic would say they are a "better person" because of the alcohol.
They may very well say that they "need" a drink or it helps them "cope", though.
 

MoonWater

Warrior Bard
Premium Member
They may very well say that they "need" a drink or it helps them "cope", though.

That's still not the same as feeling like a better person though. Feeling like you're a better person is far more than just a "good feeling", it has to do with feeling like you have "improved" your "character" or "person".
 

Jeremiah

Well-Known Member
Religion often falls into very worrysome traps such as blind faith, superstitious belief and literary fundamentalism. But those are diseases of religion, not religion itself.

And if I shoot someone it is not actually I who shot them but the gun. I had nothing to do with it.


**EDIT I reworded it. Sorry for the late edit but this seemed to make my point much clearer.
 
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