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If all religion is bad...

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
... then why do I feel like I'm a better person because of it?
How is this argument fundamentally different from "if drugs are bad, why do they make me feel so good?"

Note: I'm not saying that religion is like drug use; I just see similarity in the argument.
 

MoonWater

Warrior Bard
Premium Member
How is this argument fundamentally different from "if drugs are bad, why do they make me feel so good?"

Note: I'm not saying that religion is like drug use; I just see similarity in the argument.

there's a difference between "feeling good" and "feeling like you're a BETTER PERSON."
 

robtex

Veteran Member
... then why do I feel like I'm a better person because of it?

Tom, maybe you can help us by qualifying this question. How does religion make you a better person and specifically are you able to do, resulting in a better you, that you could not do if you did not have a personal relationship with you God? --I am calling a personal relationship with your God as "being religious" .

Does God empower or encourage events or activities from to make you a better person and if so which events or activities does this occur for and why specifically is his intervention, as a encourager or directly affect agent necessary for you to undertake those events or activities?

By contrast is their specific events or activities that non-believers/non-religious are inhibited from or prohibited from by their non-cohesion or identification with a religion or God?
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
... then why do I feel like I'm a better person because of it?

It depends on what you mean by this;

If by, "I feel like I'm a better person" means you feel like you're a better person than you would be otherwise, then hurray for religion.

If you mean, "I feel like I'm a better person than you are", well, there's my whole gripe against religion in a nutshell.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
People of noble character; who conduct themselves with honesty, honor, reason and compassion, are so due to their own personal development, understanding, realization and awareness. Going through the motions of worship and ritual alone cannot instill these values. Usually if someone is "good" due to religious reasons, it's only because they expect a reward and/or fear punishment (heaven, hell, karma, god's wrath, etc.) Also, there are people who profess their faith in god and go to church every Sunday, yet still serve as examples of horrible human beings. There are good people and ******** of every faith, or without faith.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Feeling better does not really indicate much, if anything at all. As noted, a drug addict also feels better while indulging his vice. Many other destructive behaviors, including war violence and some all-out violent and despisable crimes, bring feelings of well-being too.

That said, the premise is false as well; naive, actually. Religion often falls into very worrysome traps such as blind faith, superstitious belief and literary fundamentalism. But those are diseases of religion, not religion itself.
 

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
... then why do I feel like I'm a better person because of it?
Seems like you opened a whole can of worms for yourself toms :D

Im interested to know, what exactly about religion makes you feel like you are a better person?
and another question is, do you not think you could be a better person without religion?
in other words, is religion a necessity for being a better person?
 

tomspug

Absorbant
Tom, maybe you can help us by qualifying this question. How does religion make you a better person and specifically are you able to do, resulting in a better you, that you could not do if you did not have a personal relationship with you God? --I am calling a personal relationship with your God as "being religious" .
Gladly! First of all, religion and a relationship with God are not the same. A relationship with God is "revelatory", meaning that God teaches you and leads you in growth and understanding. Religion is a construct, a repetition. Religion is repeating. Through repetition, you come to the understanding of whether or not something is true.

This is why religion makes you a better person, in my opinion. How do you form good habits? Through repetition. No matter what your "knowledge" is, you can not become a better person unless you put effort into it. Does religion alone make you a better person? No. But it provides you with the tools to do so. Perhaps you could find goodness without religion... But wouldn't any other process of repetition, growth, and learning be nothing more than a "personal religion"?

Does God empower or encourage events or activities from to make you a better person and if so which events or activities does this occur for and why specifically is his intervention, as a encourager or directly affect agent necessary for you to undertake those events or activities?
If you believe in the God of the Bible, than you accept that everything that is put into motion is meant for good, both in origin and in redemption (if necessary). Your growth as a person is the revelation that, if you choose to follow the teachings of God (as "sometimes" emphasized by religion), your mistakes will be redeemed.

It's a complex question, because religion and God are not the same, obviously, because religion is man-made. It is either correctly repeating God or incorrectly. However, I believe that God's influence, his hand if you will, is what draws us as individuals to truth (the TRUE Word of God), which may or may not be found in our religion of choice. So to answer your question, I would say that he BOTH empowers and encourages, and that, whether we are aware of it or not, God is directly responsible for every correct choice we make.

By contrast is their specific events or activities that non-believers/non-religious are inhibited from or prohibited from by their non-cohesion or identification with a religion or God?
I hope that it's clear in my previous explanation that religion is absolutely not required. However, if it is a good religion, it most certainly helps. Sometimes we need to hear things more than once before we realize that it is true.
 

tomspug

Absorbant
Seems like you opened a whole can of worms for yourself toms :D

Im interested to know, what exactly about religion makes you feel like you are a better person?
To answer Quagmire's question, the former, which is that I can see myself being a far worse person if I had not made certain choices, or if events had not taken place which led me to consider making important decisions... Religion is a helper, like a friend. Sure, you can survive on your own, but you would consider yourself far better off to have the help.
and another question is, do you not think you could be a better person without religion?
in other words, is religion a necessity for being a better person?
Nope. All you need is [God].
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
This is why religion makes you a better person, in my opinion. How do you form good habits? Through repetition.
That's how you form bad habits, too.

No matter what your "knowledge" is, you can not become a better person unless you put effort into it. Does religion alone make you a better person? No. But it provides you with the tools to do so. Perhaps you could find goodness without religion... But wouldn't any other process of repetition, growth, and learning be nothing more than a "personal religion"?
No it wouldn't. Not unless it's a religiously-based process.

Unless you're arguing that the term "religion" should be broadened to apply to things like baseball practice as well as actual religious worship. I don't think it should, myself.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
To answer Quagmire's question, the former, which is that I can see myself being a far worse person if I had not made certain choices, or if events had not taken place which led me to consider making important decisions... Religion is a helper, like a friend.
Or a crutch?

Sure, you can survive on your own, but you would consider yourself far better off to have the help.
The help of God? If that help isn't actually there, I'd say that relying on it would make a person somewhat worse off.
 

tomspug

Absorbant
That's how you form bad habits, too.
I agree. That's why religion is also dangerous. Like I said, religion is a man-made construct with the purpose of repeating God. However, like any man-made thing, it can be poorly designed.

No it wouldn't. Not unless it's a religiously-based process.

Unless you're arguing that the term "religion" should be broadened to apply to things like baseball practice as well as actual religious worship. I don't think it should, myself.
We all have our personal religions. We all have our own definition of truth. Isn't that what "religion" is all about?
 
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