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Christians, Do you believe that all of the Muslims who have heard of the Bible are going to Hell?

*Paul*

Jesus loves you
So God is an entity that should be feared? No, that doesn't sound right to me.

And believe it or not, everyone's entitled to speak their mind on a public forum. Are you going against his freedom of choice?

According to my Lord, yes God should be feared:

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

I'm not against anybody speaking their mind, I said what I said beacuase the person acted as though I had said it to all people when my response was aimed specifically to professing Christians.
 

emiliano

Well-Known Member
oh i think if he exists then Christians go to hell but you can eventually get out if you are trully good, me i will take my chances and let him be my judge ,what else can i do at least i havent worshipped someone else , thats a big no no to Gods.

Ah, so you know the mind of the Almighty, you must be a clever fellow, I don’t and I refuse to claim to have such mind, if God in His mercy decides to take them into His kingdom, that is what will happen, so to answer the OP, I don’t know what God will do with the Muslim that hear the Bible but do not convert, He has mercy on whom He wants, He is our sovereign Lord.
Jesus in the Bible is the perfect image of the invisible almighty God ( a spirit) He is the one that the ancient Israelites saw, the one that Abraham saw, the one that made the promise to him, He is the one that we worship, the same in essence, so I have not worshiped other God and I have not troubles and my chances are looking pretty good, thank..
 

ayani

member
Paul ~

God blss you. i agree with all the scripture you have quoted. i have seen in my own life that yes, before Christ i was dead in spirit, did not truly know God (though i believed in Him, kind of). that i was very, very lost, and that nothing really of God's personal help or warnings shined through or went recognized.

i believe that only through the Person of Jesus, who is One with the Father, who alone truly knows God and has seen God, can one come to God. in Him, regardless, one will live and move and have their being. an one can have many ideas about what God is, and believe in His exstence. but to know Him and walk with Him is possible only through the Spirit, given uniquely to and through the Son, the Messiah.

yet Paul, what of these verses :

Romans 2:14-16 said:
Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Jesus Himself declares in Matthew:7 that simply believing in the power of His name while failing to live out His commandments and truly live in Him and for Him is not itself enough. one must "do the will of His Father" to truly have a place in His kingdom. to be a Christian, to be, as Paul phrased it "a Jew circumsied in one's heart", to be a reflection of Christ Jesus. salvation is through faith, and yet faith without works, without a putting into practice of His teachings and commandments, is dead. (James 2:16-17)

a non-Chrstian can not be judged under the grace which comes from faith. so how will a non-Chrstian be judged? who, in Jesus' parable of the Good Samaritan, did the will of the Father? the devout and kosher rabbi and lawyer, or the "unclean" and doctinally heretical Samaritan?
 

DarkSun

:eltiT
According to my Lord, yes God should be feared:

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

According to my perception of God, He loves us too much to want us to fear anything, let alone Himself.

Isaiah 41:10 So do not fear, for I am with you; do not be dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you; I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.
 

DarkSun

:eltiT
Paul ~

God blss you. i agree with all the scripture you have quoted. i have seen in my own life that yes, before Christ i was dead in spirit, did not truly know God (though i believed in Him, kind of). that i was very, very lost, and that nothing really of God's personal help or warnings shined through or went recognized.

i believe that only through the Person of Jesus, who is One with the Father, who alone truly knows God and has seen God, can one come to God. in Him, regardless, one will live and move and have their being. an one can have many ideas about what God is, and believe in His exstence. but to know Him and walk with Him is possible only through the Spirit, given uniquely to and through the Son, the Messiah.

yet Paul, what of these verses :



Jesus Himself declares in Matthew:7 that simply believing in the power of His name while failing to live out His commandments and truly live in Him and for Him is not itself enough. one must "do the will of His Father" to truly have a place in His kingdom. to be a Christian, to be, as Paul phrased it "a Jew circumsied in one's heart", to be a reflection of Christ Jesus. salvation is through faith, and yet faith without works, without a putting into practice of His teachings and commandments, is dead. (James 2:16-17)

a non-Chrstian can not be judged under the grace which comes from faith. so how will a non-Chrstian be judged? who, in Jesus' parable of the Good Samaritan, did the will of the Father? the devout and kosher rabbi and lawyer, or the "unclean" and doctinally heretical Samaritan?

Jesus did not seem ready to condemn the Samaritan women who spoke with Him at the well, either. I could not agree with you more.
 
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ayani

member
in light of the Samaritan woman, though Jesus pointed out her people's points of departure from truth, He also pointed her to a time when, in Himself, it would not matter if one woshipped on the Samaritan mountain or in Jerusalem, but that in spirit and in truth all could worship the Father as He did.

there is a distinct right way and wrong way- yet Christ looks past culture and creed to the person's heart and capacity for faith and fruitfulness, and invites them to Himself based upon that.

The Lord does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart. (1 Samuel 16:7)
 
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kai

ragamuffin
Ah, so you know the mind of the Almighty, you must be a clever fellow, I don’t and I refuse to claim to have such mind, if God in His mercy decides to take them into His kingdom, that is what will happen, so to answer the OP, I don’t know what God will do with the Muslim that hear the Bible but do not convert, He has mercy on whom He wants, He is our sovereign Lord.
Jesus in the Bible is the perfect image of the invisible almighty God ( a spirit) He is the one that the ancient Israelites saw, the one that Abraham saw, the one that made the promise to him, He is the one that we worship, the same in essence, so I have not worshiped other God and I have not troubles and my chances are looking pretty good, thank..

emiliano do you beleive that in order to achieve salvation you have to beleive in Jesus christ to let him into your heart , that he opened the way to salvation by his crucifiction.

If Muslims and others like myself do not need to accept this to achieve salvation what was the point in the crucifiction at all.


and really friend you need to have a look at the Quran ,Allah by his very nature is startling different to the Christian concept of God. remeber to Muslims the bible is corrupted that Jesus was a prophet and didnt die on the cross at all and so therefore there was no crucifiction it wasnt needed because there is no such thing as original sin. all this comes from the Quran which is the unalterable word of God their God not yours. to put Jesus as the son of God or as an equal or partner to God is nothing short of Blasphemy.
 

emiliano

Well-Known Member
emiliano do you beleive that in order to achieve salvation you have to beleive in Jesus christ to let him into your heart , that he opened the way to salvation by his crucifiction.

If Muslims and others like myself do not need to accept this to achieve salvation what was the point in the crucifiction at all.


and really friend you need to have a look at the Quran ,Allah by his very nature is startling different to the Christian concept of God. remeber to Muslims the bible is corrupted that Jesus was a prophet and didnt die on the cross at all and so therefore there was no crucifiction it wasnt needed because there is no such thing as original sin. all this comes from the Quran which is the unalterable word of God their God not yours. to put Jesus as the son of God or as an equal or partner to God is nothing short of Blasphemy.

Kai thank, but no thanks, I am a Christian I believe that, that is where God called me to be, I believe that God drew me to Jesus the saviour, that He is God tabernacled in the midst of man, I am not a doubter I am sure that Jesus is the way to God, but I don’t know what the final destiny of Muslims is, He will Judge and He know the heart of all, he is omniscient and will judge rightly, I just don’t know, this does not mean that I am searching and need to know the Koran, I have all my question answered by the Bible a while ago, I know in whom I trust.
 

kai

ragamuffin
Kai thank, but no thanks, I am a Christian I believe that, that is where God called me to be, I believe that God drew me to Jesus the saviour, that He is God tabernacled in the midst of man, I am not a doubter I am sure that Jesus is the way to God, but I don’t know what the final destiny of Muslims is, He will Judge and He know the heart of all, he is omniscient and will judge rightly, I just don’t know, this does not mean that I am searching and need to know the Koran, I have all my question answered by the Bible a while ago, I know in whom I trust.


Ok emiliano, i get where you are coming from, thanks for the chat,
 

ayani

member
According to my perception of God, He loves us too much to want us to fear anything, let alone Himself.

well, there's a certain kind of fear that stems not from a desire to flee from something evil or deadly, but from love, respect, awe, and surrender.

it's not neccesarily "i'm terrfied of You, please don't kill me" but rather " i respect You and hold Your power and might in great awe and wonder."

yet in many places in the Bible, human response to God *is* based in part on terror and amazement, especially when the Lord reveals a vision to someone, or reveals something of His glory. there is a great might in the Lord that lends one to consider His works and power in fear and trembling, and also in great thankfulness and amazement. Biblically it's not impossible for the two kinds of fear to go hand in hand.
 

DarkSun

:eltiT
well, there's a certain kind of fear that stems not from a desire to flee from something evil or deadly, but from love, respect, awe, and surrender.

it's not neccesarily "i'm terrfied of You, please don't kill me" but rather " i respect You and hold Your power and might in great awe and wonder."

yet in many places in the Bible, human response to God *is* based in part on terror and amazement, especially when the Lord reveals a vision to someone, or reveals something of His glory. there is a great might in the Lord that lends one to consider His works and power in fear and trembling, and also in great thankfulness and amazement. Biblically it's not impossible for the two kinds of fear to go hand in hand.

I agree with you completely, once again... it just seemed that Paul was referring to the "I'm terrified of you, please don't kill me" kind of fear and suggesting that people should view God in that light. Perhaps I misunderstood....

and really friend you need to have a look at the Quran ,Allah by his very nature is startling different to the Christian concept of God. remeber to Muslims the bible is corrupted that Jesus was a prophet and didnt die on the cross at all and so therefore there was no crucifiction it wasnt needed because there is no such thing as original sin. all this comes from the Quran which is the unalterable word of God their God not yours. to put Jesus as the son of God or as an equal or partner to God is nothing short of Blasphemy.

But there are vast similarities in doctrine concerning how to live one's life, on morality and what is just... Even though the literal natures of God are different between each religion, what each God teaches is quintessentially the same. Humility, compassion and forgiveness... if a person has these attributes and acts through them, then they are doing all that God asks of them. And who's to say that both Allah and God are just two different ways of percieving the one Creator? Perhaps all the good deeds done while having faith in Allah are counted as greatness in the name of the Christian God in the end. That would seem like the most loving way to judge someone.
 
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kai

ragamuffin
I agree with you completely, once again... it just seemed that Paul was referring to the "I'm terrified of you, please don't kill me" kind of fear and suggesting that people should view God in that light. Perhaps I misunderstood....



But there are vast similarities in doctrine concerning how to live one's life, on morality and what is just... Even though the literal natures of God are different between each religion, what each God teaches is quintessentially the same. Humility, compassion and forgiveness... if a person has these attributes and acts through them, then they are doing all that God asks of them. And who's to say that both Allah and God are just two different ways of percieving the one Creator?
Perhaps all the good deeds done while having faith in Allah are counted as greatness in the name of the Christian God in the end.
That would seem like the most loving way to judge someone.

Looking at this do i take it then that Allah is not the Christian God then, and you beleive the Christian God is the one who will be doing the Judging.:)
 

DarkSun

:eltiT
Looking at this do i take it then that Allah is not the Christian God then, and you beleive the Christian God is the one who will be doing the Judging.:)

I personally believe that the Christian God is the most accurate perception of the Creator based on what I have felt and experienced myself. But that does not mean that those in Islam are not viewing the same Creator from a different viewpoint; a different cultural context. So to answer your question, yes, from everything I've read, Allah is ultimately the same concept as the Christian God, but to me, the Christian God Himself is the most accurate portrayal of the Creator.

I think I may have said this several times in your thread, too.
 

kai

ragamuffin
I personally believe that the Christian God is the most accurate perception of the Creator based on what I have felt and experienced myself. But that does not mean that those in Islam are not viewing the same Creator from a different viewpoint; a different cultural context. So to answer your question, yes, from everything I've read, Allah is ultimately the same concept as the Christian God, but to me, the Christian God Himself is the most accurate portrayal of the Creator.

I think I may have said this several times in your thread, too.


Yes you have and thank you for your patience with me, forgive me if i seem to be cross examining you but it seems to me that some Christians kind of assimilate Allah ignoring all his Islamic aspects which of course make him"Allah". or do you mean you can attain salvation by good works alone
 

DarkSun

:eltiT
Yes you have and thank you for your patience with me, forgive me if i seem to be cross examining you but it seems to me that some Christians kind of assimilate Allah ignoring all his Islamic aspects which of course make him"Allah". or do you mean you can attain salvation by good works alone

Romans 2:13-16 said:
For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Thanks to Ayani for reminding me of this passage. I've been looking for it recently and I couldn't find it.

Kai, this is the Christian view on the matter that I have come to take; that God judges us not on what we believe but on the virtue of our character. He is the only person who can see us truly, so even if the the literal teachings of Islam are disproven in the end, that does not mean that all Muslims are condemned to Hell. Christians who have faith in Christ but do not live by his Word most probably have less chance than an atheist who cannot help but disbelieve based on the evidence, who yet still stands for what Christ stood for. But then again, I am not God, so I cannot know for certain. This just seems like the most compassionate way to judge for me, and it is supported countless times in scripture.

While some aspects of Islam cannot be reconciled with Christianity, there are countless parallels between the doctrinal, philosophical and ethical aspects between the two religions. Personally, I think that the various similarities outweigh the differences in the end.
 
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kai

ragamuffin
Thanks to Ayani for reminding me of this passage. I've been looking for it recently and I couldn't find it.

Kai, this is the Christian view on the matter that I have come to take; that God judges us not on what we believe but on the virtue of our character. He is the only person who can see us truly, so even if the the literal teachings of Islam are disproven in the end, that does not mean that all Muslims are condemned to Hell. Christians who have faith in Christ but do not live by his Word most probably have less chance than an atheist who cannot help but disbelieve based on the evidence, who yet still stands for what Christ stood for. But then again, I am not God, so I cannot know for certain. This just seems like the most compassionate way to judge for me, and it is supported countless times in scripture.

While some aspects of Islam cannot be reconciled with Christianity, there are countless parallels between the doctrinal, philosophical and ethical aspects between the two religions. Personally, I think that the various similarities outweigh the differences in the end.


OK i get it. so one last time and i will leave you alone i promise , according to you i can totally denounce Christ reject the crucifiction and the resurection and still gain salvation by being a good person. now forgive me if i sound flippant i dont mean to be i find this subject fascinating but what was the point of Jesus and the crucifiction and resurection then?
 

DarkSun

:eltiT
OK i get it. so one last time and i will leave you alone i promise , according to you i can totally denounce Christ reject the crucifiction and the resurection and still gain salvation by being a good person. now forgive me if i sound flippant i dont mean to be i find this subject fascinating but what was the point of Jesus and the crucifiction and resurection then?

I'm not able to answer that completely, God alone is the one person who is able to judge. But from where I'm standing, yes, as long as you have upheld the word of Christ, then even though you don't necessarily believe in Him, you might gain salvation...

However, John 3:16 does come to mind when I say that...

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
The honest answer is that I don't really know myself. There are too many things in this world that I don't fully grasp and perhaps this is one of them... but to me, I think your chances are good. After all, you can't help what you believe, right? I'm pretty sure that God will see your heart and that will be all that matters.
 
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kai

ragamuffin
I'm not able to answer that completely, God alone is the one person who is able to judge. But from where I'm standing, yes, as long as you have upheld the word of Christ, then even though you don't necessarily believe in Him, you might gain salvation...

However, John 3:16 does come to mind when I say that...

The honest answer is that I don't really know myself. There are too many things in this world that I don't fully grasp and perhaps this is one of them... but to me, I think your chances are good. After all, you can't help what you believe, right? I'm pretty sure that God will see your heart and that will be all that matters.



Thanks Darksun
 

roli

Born Again,Spirit Filled
This is the very question that drove me away from the Baptist church and into UUism. I had spent several years in Mulim countries and had many friend who were Muslim. I was told repeatedly that they were all going to hell because they hadn't accepted Jesus Christ as their savior and that was the one and only way to get into Heaven. I actually prefer the Muslim belief that there are three ways to get into heaven; through observing Allah's works (nature), the Holy Scriptures and/or the Prophets.

I guess we are all entitled to the right to believe what we want.
Your not alone, so many want to believe in their own version of heaven or way to get there.
Hell among many other teachings of Jesus was a difficult subject for the religious leaders of Jesus day to accept ,as a matter of fact, for all the people.
It's no different in today's society.
Jhn 6:53Unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood you have no part in the kingdom ......66 From that [time] many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him..

Jesus claimed he was the only way to the father, if this be the case ,it really does'nt matter what one chooses to believe that is contrary to that. We will all find out on that day, to those who look for his appearing with joy, for those who don't they will climb under rocks to escape.

The bible clearly states that in the last days many will depart from the faith giving heed to suducing spirits and doctrines of demons.
John speaks about those who leave the faith or maybe were never really part of it.
1Jo 2:19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Jesus speaks of true and false conversions several times:read the context of this in Matt 13
Matt 13 :19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth [it] not, then cometh the wicked [one], and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
Mat 13:21Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

The question one needs to ask is
 
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