resurrection

Katzpur said:

S-word,

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Katzpur said:

You are quoting the wrong person. I did not say any of what you've attributed to me.

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My sincere apologies Katzpur, I see now that although is was in your post it was a quote from Muffled, or was it muddled? I'm not too sure, but once again, my sincere apologies.

Muffled said:

There was a major schism in Judaism between those who believed in the resurrection of the dead (Pharisees) and those who did not (Sadducees). The physical resurrection had to take place in a way the Saducees could not deny (But they did anyway, a clear indication that evidence and reality can't change a person's beliefs). The second reason is that it establishes the certainty of life in the spirit after death and therefore the certainty that God exists. This fundamental belief allows the disciples to be prepared for receiving the Holy Spirit. If Jesus stayed everybody would still be relying on His physical presence but with Him gone everyone now must find Jesus through His believers who have Him living inside.

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When Paul who at that time was known as Saul, cried out "Who are you Lord?" to the glorious and brilliant body of Light which had blinded his eyes, the voice answered ,"I am Jesus of Nazareth."

Halcyon said:

I'm curious, to people who believe in the bodily resurrection, why didn't Mary or the disciples on the road to Emmaus recognise him?

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Crucifixion was a rite in the mysteries of many countries and especially those of Egypt, See ‘The Secret Doctrines,’ vol. 11, p. 558. The initiated adept, who had successfully passed all the trials, was tied to a cross deep inside a Temple Crypt or cave, he was then drugged and plunged into a deep sleep in which state, in the darkness of the bowels of the earth, he remained for three days and three nights, during which time his spirit=mind, is said to have descended into hades to communicate with the gods.

1 Peter 4: 18-20, For Christ was put to death physically, but made alive spiritually, and in his spiritual existence he descended into the world of dead and preached the good news to those who were disobedient in the days when Noah was building the boat. Chapter 4: 6, and the good news was preached to the dead, to those who had been judged in the physical existence as all are judged, so that in their spiritual existence they might live as God lives and God is the indwelling spirit to whom all the spirits of good people who fall asleep in righteousness are gathered to.

Those spirits to whom Jesus had descended and preached the good news to, those who had been Judged in the flesh as all are judged and had been found worthy of the resurrection, are the spirits that were poured out as fire on the heads of all those who had believe the words of our saviour which were spoken through the mouth of his obedient servant Jesus, and they in their spiritual existence, now dwell within the body of man, gathering to themselves the good spirits who fall asleep in righteousness of the descendants of the ones who on the day of Pentecost received their share of the hidden Manna, a living spiritual cell of the body of our saviour who gives his immortal life for us and who rose Jesus from death as the first fruits of those who are to be redeemed from the dead past of the only exception of all mankind, who, at the age of 365 was carried into the eighth heaven. And they, the spiritual cells of the immortal Son of MAN who now live in their spiritual existence as God lives, will be resurrected as the body of Christ when they have each gathered to themselves the required number of righteous spirits who have paid the blood price for the sins of their life on earth, and they who are but the compilation of those enclosures of spirits who do not have to suffer the second death, are they of the first resurrection who will take the thrones that have been prepared fpr them and rule the Sabbath, the day of the Lord.

Considering that we are still awaiting the first resurrection as recorded in the book of Revelation 20: 4-6, when they who will sit upon the thrones that have been prepared for them will be raised to life or rather reborn on earth in the bodies of their chosen ones, and rule with Christ who is their heavenly compilation for the Sabbath of one thousand years. The question is asked here, who were they who came out of their Graves that were opened on the day that Jesus was crucified and who entered the city Three Days later and showed themselves to many people?


Matthew 27: 52, And the graves were opened: and many bodies of the saints that slept arose. Verse 53, And came out of the graves after the resurrection, and went into the Holy city and appeared to many. The first to see one of they who I believe, (And I stand to be corrected if proven wrong) were of body of the risen Christ, the 365 day old unblemished Lamb of God, reborn on earth as Jesus who was offered up for our sake, were his Mother the wife of Cleophas and her sister, half sister, or step sister, Mary Magdalene, who, although looking straight at him, thought that he was the gardener, until he spoke her name.

The next to who one of the risen body of Christ appeared, were Cleophas who is also called Alpheas, who is the biological father of James the youngest of Mary's three biological sons, and James was the first to sit on the Episcopal throne of the church of the circumcision, and Cleophas was the husband of Mary, who, with his son Simon, 'to another marriage,' who was to inherit the Episcopal throne of the church of the circumcision after his half brother, 'James the righteous,' was killed at the instigation of the same sudducce sect that had his full brother Jesus killed.

Although Cleophas and Simon walked and talked with one of the risen body of Christ for some kilometres, they did not recognise him for who he was, until they saw the manner in which he broke the bread, Cleophas then returned to Jerusalem, where eleven of the disciples which included Simon Peter and Simon the Patriot, who were cowering in a darkened room, the only one absent that evening when Jesus appeared in that dimly lit room in the form that they reconginsed as Jesus, was Thomas Jude another half brother of Jesus, who was called the Twin, although nowhere does the bible say that he was an actual twin or whether he just held a striking resemblance to someone else. But back to Cleophas, who said to the eleven, "He has risen, he appeared to Simon," who was of course Simon the brother of Jesus who succeeded ‘James the younger’ as the head of the church founded by Jesus.

Then there were the seven disciples who were fishing on Lake Galilee having no success at all, when someone on the bank told them to throw their net on the right side of the boat in which they caught 153 fishes, sitting down to eat with the person who had a fire prepared with fish on it and some bread, not one dared to ask who he was, but they understood that he was of the risen body of Christ. Even when he ascended up into heaven as a cloud, some of the 11 disciples doubted that it was he. So again I ask, "Who were they?"

Quote....Katzpur-----I would like to explore this thought further, since my belief is similar. Where do you believe the Old Testament speaks of a Torment/Paradise division in Hell?

Isaiah 57: 1, 'Good people die, and no one understands or even cares. But when they die, no calamity can hurt them. Those who live good lives find peace and rest in death.'

Now you know what state, that they who live good lives, and are allowed to enter into the Bosom of Abraham experience in death=grave= Hades, but now to find out the state that those who lead wicked lives experience in Hades you must turn to the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, as spoken through the mouth of Jesus who spoke only that which he was commanded to say by our saviour.

Berachiah Ben Yisrael said:

Please don't choke...........

I see you have a nice little bible program and I hope that it shows you the Strong's numbers by each word in each verse to show you the contextual meaning of such.

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I agree in context. Thanks for the tips

Oh man chipped a tooth

When mary realised that she was speaking to jesus, he said that she must not touch him, but later in a house, he encourages thomas to touch him.

Some think that jesus told mary not to touch him, because he was semi-naked, his clothes being in the grave still. She also thought that he was the gardener...Did gardeners work semi-naked in those days. HE HE..?


Its interesting that Jesus let DOUBTING thomas touch him. Why let the doubting one touch him? To make sure that he believes? But then mary who believed...was not allowed to touch him. The reason jesus said she shouldnt touch him, was because he hadnt gone to the father yet. Did he go to the father by the time thomas touched him?

Also, later when the disciples were fishing, jesus called to them. Peter didnt recognise his voice. ODD. And the disciple whom jesus loved, had to tell peter 'its the lord'. I wish that the account of jesus on the beach with the fish, included the disciples knowing for sure that it was jesus by ASKING him. But they did not ask him, because the script says..they knew it was him, but it also says, that they did not DARE ask. But if they did not dare to ask him, does that mean, they didnt see the holes in his hands, but whoever was appearing to them, seemed awefully alike to jesus.

Hmm.....has someone been posing as jesus?

Katzpur said:

how about we start by you explaining why it wasn't necessary.

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Because God's God?

For every natural being, there is a spiritual copy.

Now if we look at the resurrection of jesus...then there could very well have been two Jesus's.

Look at this scripture:

5The angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. 6He is not here; he has risen, just as he said. Come and see the place where he lay. 7Then go quickly and tell his disciples: `He has risen from the dead and is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him.' Now I have told you."
8So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples. 9Suddenly Jesus met them. "Greetings," he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him. 10Then Jesus said to them, "Do not be afraid. Go and tell my brothers to

First the angel tells her to go and tell the disciples to meet jesus in galilee.

And then...here appears jesus...suddendly, before they go to galilee. So what happened to meeing him at galilee?

Could it be...that jesus the resurrected man, and chirst the resurrected jesus, were two different beings?

I would say that those accounts of jesus where he seemed to appear from nowhere, like an angel would, to be the spiritual copy of jesus, and the others, where they would simply stuble upon him, or meet him somewhere would be the natural copy of jesus.

A spiritual being does not have to ask people to meet him somewhere, he would just appear.

The thought just dawned on me...

If jesus was resurrected with a spiritual body that could move thru walls, which we know it could do, then why did the stone have to be removed before the grave. Jesus could have moved through it.

BUT, if jesus the man, was also resurrected, then his grave would have had to be opened, because like lazarus he wouldnt be able to move through stone, but would need to have the stone removed.

So...jesus the son of god (spirit) was resurrected and
Jesus the son of man was resurrected. And probably not in the same body.

Which would explain why some did not recognise christs face, but they did recognise his spirit, since his spirit had been with them all along, but it had up till then the face of jesus.

Heneni

Olson5256,

Is the soul the same as the spirit?


Ecclesiastes12:7: “Then the dust returns to the earth just as it happened to be and the spirit [or, life-force; Hebrew, ru'ach] itself returns to the true God who gave it.” (Notice that the Hebrew word for spirit is ru'ach]; but the word translated soul is ne'phesh. The text does not mean that at death the spirit travels all the way to the personal presence of God; rather, any prospect for the person to live again rests with God. In similar usage, we may say that, if required payments are not made by the buyer of a piece of property, the property “returns” to its owner) KJ, AS, RS, NE, and Dy all here render ru'ach as “spirit” NAB reads “life breath.”)


Genesis 2:7 says “ God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul”. (Notice that this does not say that man was given a soul but that he became a soul, a living person.) (The part of the Hebrew word here rendered “soul” is ne'phesh. KJ, AS, and Dy agree with that rendering. RS, JB, NAB read “being.” NE says “creature.” Kx reads “person.”)


It is true that Jesus appeared in physical form to his disciples after his resurrection. But on certain occasions, why did they not at first recognize him? (Luke 24:15-32; John 20:14-16) On one occasion, for the benefit of Thomas, Jesus appeared with the physical evidence of nail prints in his hands and a spear wound in his side. But how was it possible on that occasion for him suddenly to appear in their midst even though the doors were locked? (John 20:26, 27) Jesus evidently materialized bodies on these occasions, as angels had done in the past when appearing to humans. Disposing of Jesus’ physical body at the time of his resurrection presented no problem for God. Interestingly, although the physical body was not left by God in the tomb (evidently to strengthen the conviction of the disciples that Jesus had actually been raised), the linen cloths in which it had been wrapped were left there; yet, the resurrected Jesus always appeared fully clothed.—John 20:6, 7.

After Jesus’ resurrection he appeared in different bodies. Mary mistook him for the gardener. (John 20:14, 15) Several times he manifested himself and was recognized, not by his appearance, but by his words and actions. (Lu 24:15, 16, 30, 31, 36-45; Mt 28:16-18) Once a miracle performed at his direction opened his disciples’ eyes to his identity. (John 21:4-7, 12)


But what happened to Jesus' fleshly body? Was it preserved so that in time men would look upon it and worship it? No...just as God had disposed of Moses body, and “no man knoweth of his sepulchre”.(Deuteronomy 34:5,6) he did the same with the body of Jesus. Therefore the body could not become an object of veneration.


starlite

"Now if we look at the resurrection of jesus...then there could very well have been two Jesus's."

Wow, this is really getting good.

starlite said:

Olson5256,

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starlite said:

Is the soul the same as the spirit?
Ecclesiastes12:7: “Then the dust returns to the earth just as it happened to be and the spirit [or, life-force; Hebrew, ru'ach] itself returns to the true God who gave it.” (Notice that the Hebrew word for spirit is ru'ach]; but the word translated soul is ne'phesh. The text does not mean that at death the spirit travels all the way to the personal presence of God; rather, any prospect for the person to live again rests with God. In similar usage, we may say that, if required payments are not made by the buyer of a piece of property, the property “returns” to its owner) KJ, AS, RS, NE, and Dy all here render ru'ach as “spirit” NAB reads “life breath.&#8221
Genesis 2:7 says “ God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul”. (Notice that this does not say that man was given a soul but that he became a soul, a living person.) (The part of the Hebrew word here rendered “soul” is ne'phesh. KJ, AS, and Dy agree with that rendering. RS, JB, NAB read “being.” NE says “creature.” Kx reads “person.&#8221
It is true that Jesus appeared in physical form to his disciples after his resurrection. But on certain occasions, why did they not at first recognize him? (Luke 24:15-32; John 20:14-16) On one occasion, for the benefit of Thomas, Jesus appeared with the physical evidence of nail prints in his hands and a spear wound in his side. But how was it possible on that occasion for him suddenly to appear in their midst even though the doors were locked? (John 20:26, 27) Jesus evidently materialized bodies on these occasions, as angels had done in the past when appearing to humans. Disposing of Jesus’ physical body at the time of his resurrection presented no problem for God. Interestingly, although the physical body was not left by God in the tomb (evidently to strengthen the conviction of the disciples that Jesus had actually been raised), the linen cloths in which it had been wrapped were left there; yet, the resurrected Jesus always appeared fully clothed.—John 20:6, 7.
After Jesus’ resurrection he appeared in different bodies. Mary mistook him for the gardener. (John 20:14, 15) Several times he manifested himself and was recognized, not by his appearance, but by his words and actions. (Lu 24:15, 16, 30, 31, 36-45; Mt 28:16-18) Once a miracle performed at his direction opened his disciples’ eyes to his identity. (John 21:4-7, 12)
But what happened to Jesus' fleshly body? Was it preserved so that in time men would look upon it and worship it? No...just as God had disposed of Moses body, and “no man knoweth of his sepulchre”.(Deuteronomy 34:5,6) he did the same with the body of Jesus. Therefore the body could not become an object of veneration.
starlite

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In the world before this one, which blasted out from the black Hole into which the old world had been compressed as a infinitely hot and infinitely dense, infintisimily small singularity, all life on earth had been destroyed by water, and Enoch was the only exception of all mankind to have been carried to heaven at the age of 365, the number of days in a calendar year. When that old world was resurrected, and the Logos had become mankind again, it was the living indwelling spirit of Enoch, who warned Noah of the coming catostrophic event, and the descendants of Noah and the other seven souls who were all descendants of Enoch's six sons, Methusulah, Rigam, Riman, Urchan, Cherminion and Giadad, became the new body in which the indwelling father, who was the heir to the Godhead of the previous world, would form his son and heir. Noah was in fact, Enoch reborn on earth.

Methuselah took a wife for his son Lamech, and she became pregnant by him and bore a son; And his body was as white as snow and as red as the blooming of a rose, and the hair on his head and his long locks were white as wool, and his eyes beautiful. And when he opened his eyes, he lighted up the whole house like the sun, and the whole house was very bright. And thereupon he arose in the hands of the midwife, opened his mouth, and conversed with the Lord of righteousness. And his father Lamech was afraid of him, and Lamech fled and ran to his father Methuselah. And he said to him: “I have begotten a strange son, diverse from and unlike man, and resembling the sons of the God of heaven; and his nature is different, and he is not like us, and his eyes are as the rays of the sun, and his countenance is glorious. And it seems that he is not sprung from me, but from the angels. And I fear that in his days, a wonder may be wrought on the earth.

Abraham was the eleventh from Noah, 10 + 1, and of the ten post flood ancestors of Abraham who was born about 292 years after the flood, which was about 58 years before the death of Noah who died 350 A. fter F. lood , while Shem died 500 AF, Arpachshad 438 AF, Shelah 478 AF, Eber, the Father of the Hebrew Race 539 AF, Peleg 348 AF, Reu 378 AF, Sherug 401 AF, Nahor 349 Af and Terah the Father of Abraham who died at the age of 205, some 60 years after his 75 year old son left him to travel into the land of Canaan, died 505 years after the Flood. Showing that, at the birth of Abraham, none of the spirits of Abraham’s ten post flood ancestors had been added to the Spirit of Enoch as he was before the flood, and it was to Abraham that the only exception of all mankind to have ascended to the ends of this cycle of universal activity and who came down, said to Abraham who was the first man to accept him as his God, .....

"In multiplying, I will multiply you; which in fact meant that He, to whom all the spirits of Good people had been gathered in his ascent to the ends of the heaven, from which he had descended into his dead past, was creating a duplication of himself by gathering to the spirit of Abraham, all the spirits of good people who fall asleep in righteousness. And death had no power over Jesus who was the invisible mind and godhead or compilation of that physical enclosure of righteous spirits that had been gathered to the bosom of Abraham to whom he was obedient, and who had all paid the blood price for the sins of their earthly life and as Jesus, were reborn on earth and that encloser of righteous spirits were not subject to the second death. When Jesus died, it was they whose graves were opened and while they remain united in spirit, Jesus their heavenly compilation remains alive. 10 completes a cycle and 10+1 begins the new cycle, Jesus the second Adam was 70 generations from Enoch who was the seventh from God, Adam being the first born son of God see Luke 3: 23-38, making Jesus the eleventh of the seventh born sons from God, 10 + 1.

Those who had been judged in the flesh as all are judged and were found worthy of life, and were risen from their graves, with the death of their binding compilation, were the spiritual cells of our saviour which were poured out as fire on the heads of the believers, where now, in the body of man, they live their spiritual existence as God lives: gathering to the bosom of their chosen one, the spirits of good people who fall asleep in righteousness.When they have gathered the required number of spirits who have all paid the blood price for the sins of their lives on earth, they will choose one, as did Enoch, who is true and obedient to their inner being, then releasing, or awakening those righteous spirits of who, they are the spiritual compilation within their chosen one in this day, which is the close of the sixth period of one thousand years from Adam, they will die in the process of involution, diminishing into nothingness, while their chosen one evolves on the awakening spirits, to who, each awakening spirit they are obedient until the process is completed and the two are one, the chosen earthly person who dies to who s/he was, will become the compilation of the awakened spirits who had all died the first death and s/he will be the same as the father spirit within, who was the compilation of those resting spirits, who died that he might be reborn on earth. Then those spirits who were poured out on the day of pentecost, having gathered to themselves the required number of righteous spirits, who have all died once and cannot die the second death, will, as the risen body of Jesus Christ, take the thrones that have been prepared for them and they shall rule the Lord's day, the Sabbath, the seventh period of one thousand years.

How is it that we think consciousness lives outside of our physical bodies? Where did this come from, this idea of transcendence without immanence. Duality isn't a luxury but a fact of nature, due to our intellectual and divisive minds. Opposites are forever, as Yahweh promised Noah at the conclusion of the flood. It seems to me that the transcendent, holy God of the three western religions isn't the goal of religious, but the curse, a curse which ended when his son died and came back to his physical body. Don't we all have to do that?

Evolution_Not said:

The physical body was not resurected. Christ and all who are resurected are given a spiritual body.

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Sounds quite contradictory to what the biblical Yeshua said to his disciples....(Touch and handle me, my hands and my feet. See that I am not dead because spirits don't have flesh and bones like me)....and (I'm hungry what do you have here to eat).....(an they gave him meat/fish and a piece of honeycomb and stood before them eating)..

Katzpur said:

It is the same body in that it would be recognizable, as Jesus' was, to those who knew the person.

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In the case of the biblical Yeshua, IMO, it was the same body of some one who wasn't dead. It, IMO, was an earthly body of a man. As described, he still had the would in his side. There would no reason for him to present himself to them with a wound because that's how they remembered him considering NONE of them were an eyewitness to his supposed crucifixion.

Dirty Penguin said:

In the case of the biblical Yeshua, IMO, it was the same body of some one who wasn't dead. It, IMO, was an earthly body of a man. As described, he still had the would in his side. There would no reason for him to present himself to them with a wound because that's how they remembered him considering NONE of them were an eyewitness to his supposed crucifixion.

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The Glorious dazzling and brilliant body of light which blinded the eyes of Saul, who, when asked, gave his name as 'Jesus of Nazareth,' was a multi celled being.

In his physical life, he, the mind=spirit which developed in that body born from the union of two Israelite parents, (Mary and her half brother Joseph the son of Heli) in which body dwelt his saviour, who was the compilation of the spiritual enclosure of all the righteous spirits that had been gathered to the bosom of Abraham, to who the mind that was developing in the body of Jesus was totally obedient to. "Who I Am,' the God of our ancestors or the indwelling ancestral God, who died in the process of involution that he might be reborn on earth in the body of his chosen and obedient servant Jesus, which invisible mind that was Jesus, evolved to become the compilation of all those spirits as his inner saviour diminished into nothingness, emptying himself in the process of involution to become the first of those to be redeemed from the dead past of the glorious simulacrum in the eighth eternal heaven of light, which was the glorious and brilliant sacrifical enclosure of spirits of which the man Enoch was the first and the least of the spirits, within that spiritual enclosure.

Enoch, the first and the cornerstone of the heavenly sacrifical lamb of God which dies in the process of involution in order to be the saviour of we who are in the process of evolution, diminishing into nothingness as that glorious heavenly simulacrum is emptied, from the least to the greatest. And he, Enoch reborn on earth as Jesus, who was the least in the glorious heavenly simulacrum=blue print=prototype, became the first in the glorious body of light which will dwell on earth among mankind. Jesus, the cornerstone and the first fruits of many brothers to be redeemed from the dead past of the Omega's heavenly facsimile, becomes the heavenly compilation of all those who are gathered to him in the creation of God's new glorious Temple on earth which flesh and blood cannot inherit and which glorious multi celled body of light, will supersede the old tabernacle of mankind, wherein the inner most sanctuary, he now dwells. The first shall be last and the last shall be first.

S-word said:

The Glorious dazzling and brilliant body of light which blinded the eyes of Saul, who, when asked, gave his name as 'Jesus of Nazareth,' was a multi celled being.

In his physical life, he, the mind=spirit which developed in that body born from the union of two Israelite parents, (Mary and her half brother Joseph the son of Heli) in which body dwelt his saviour, who was the compilation of the spiritual enclosure of all the righteous spirits that had been gathered to the bosom of Abraham, to who the mind that was developing in the body of Jesus was totally obedient to. "Who I Am,' the God of our ancestors or the indwelling ancestral God, who died in the process of involution that he might be reborn on earth in the body of his chosen and obedient servant Jesus, which invisible mind that was Jesus, evolved to become the compilation of all those spirits as his inner saviour diminished into nothingness, emptying himself in the process of involution to become the first of those to be redeemed from the dead past of the glorious simulacrum in the eighth eternal heaven of light, which was the glorious and brilliant sacrifical enclosure of spirits of which the man Enoch was the first and the least of the spirits, within that spiritual enclosure.

Enoch, the first and the cornerstone of the heavenly sacrifical lamb of God which dies in the process of involution in order to be the saviour of we who are in the process of evolution, diminishing into nothingness as that glorious heavenly simulacrum is emptied, from the least to the greatest. And he, Enoch reborn on earth as Jesus, who was the least in the glorious heavenly simulacrum=blue print=prototype, became the first in the glorious body of light which will dwell on earth among mankind. Jesus, the cornerstone and the first fruits of many brothers to be redeemed from the dead past of the Omega's heavenly facsimile, becomes the heavenly compilation of all those who are gathered to him in the creation of God's new glorious Temple on earth which flesh and blood cannot inherit and which glorious multi celled body of light, will supersede the old tabernacle of mankind, wherein the inner most sanctuary, he now dwells. The first shall be last and the last shall be first.

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IMO, all of this is a side track to what the biblical Yeshua said. He didn't describe himself as a spiritual being and presenting himself to them as a spirit body. He told them to touch him, his hands and his feet, handle him....cause a spirit is not like any of this......As well as requesting food from them and eating it..only to show that he was flesh and blood...not spirit....

Dirty Penguin said:

In the case of the biblical Yeshua, IMO, it was the same body of some one who wasn't dead. It, IMO, was an earthly body of a man.

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Well, I'm glad you said it was just your opinion. That's all any of us really have to go on.

As described, he still had the would in his side. There would no reason for him to present himself to them with a wound because that's how they remembered him considering NONE of them were an eyewitness to his supposed crucifixion.

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Well, since you don't even believe He was crucified in the first place, there's no real point in even theorizing about His resurrection, is there? If I were going to argue the reality of His resurrection, I'd have to start by arguing the reality of His crucifixion. That seems to me to be pretty much like another subject entirely.

Dirty Penguin said:

....cause a spirit is not like any of this......As well as requesting food from them and eating it..only to show that he was flesh and blood...not spirit....

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What is a spirit like? Does a spirit not eat? Why can't hebe just flesh and bone with no blood?

olson5256 said:

Do you believe that god created daylight and night before he created the sun ?

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Our Milky Way galaxy in which our sun is but one of a countless number of stars, was once one of a countless number of massive first generation stars which eventually were unable to counteract the great gravitation force of their own mass, and after blazing out as spectacular super nova', collapsed in upon themselves, exploding out a percentage of its mass while the remainder was crushed by the unimaginable gravitational force that condensed it to less than a neutron star in a Black Hole, around which the nebular cloud which was the residue of the super nova, was held in orbit around that Black Hole, swirling and rotating and condensing into the solar systems of suns and planets that are our milky Way Galaxy.

So in answer to your question, the answer is yes, before God created our sun, the eternal evolving mind that is God who is made manifest as the physical universe, created the light periods that are seen as the periods of universal activity after the infinitely dense and infinitely hot, infinitesimally small primordial atom from which this universal body originated, blasted out with a mighty bang; and the dark periods wherein, all that came out of the Black Hole from which this universal body originated is compressed back into the infinitely dense and hot infinitesimally small Primordial atom, from which God will create for us a new heaven and a new earth.