Does faith deserve respect?

First off, Storm, very good post. Second, yes the man in the video is acting like he is stuck in a corner, but who is trying to force their beliefs on him? Couragousness does not manifest through being a hypocrite. I don't want ANY religion or ANY belief system to be the soul basis of the conduct of our legal system. Where is this guy coming from and who is he so angry with? Maybe he has a neighbor who keeps bugging him to convert to a religion or to believe in God. No matter how hard you try to deny it (as the man said, you can not change facts no matter how hard you try), arguing that Athiesim is not a belief system based on FAITH that there is not a God or Gods, guess what it is. As I mentioned in an earlier post, this man needs to know what he is talking about in full perspective before acting like such a radical.

Hey cheater! Your new thread hid my post!

Becket, are you referring to me? I didn't start a new thread.

Sry. New PAGE.

lol... that's o.k.

frg001 said:

Interesting post. But I disagree. If you watch his videos he is simply retaliating against those forces of religion which demand respect, and give nothing in return.

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What exactly are "the forces of religion"?

He is far from a bigot.

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Calling people who disagree with you "mentally ill" doesn't raise any red flags for you?

He is acting like someone trapped in a corner...which all people who do not WANT organised religion telling them how they should live their lives, and what they can and cannot say, think or do, ARE.

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I don't want that, and I'm not trapped in a corner.

I only wish more people had his courage.

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That isn't courage.

You see? I knew he wouldn't bother to check page 2!

1) I'm a "she"
2) I read your post.

Well along with my comments I DID ask a few questions back there:
First do you wish to criticize or counter Pat's arguments? The latter is more constructive.
Secondly are you so sure his atheism is solidly antitheistic? Cause you often placed the burden of proof on him in your post - asking him to prove there is no god & the like. But I've had Pat subscribed to my youtube account for a while and've been keeping up with the stuff he posts. He seems more like an agnostic atheist who has an understandably big problem with people who make highly unlikely claims without meeting their own burden of proof, and in the extreme cases substituding evidence with the sword.

Beckett said:

Well along with my comments I DID ask a few questions back there:
First do you wish to criticize or counter Pat's arguments? The latter is more constructive.

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I didn't hear an argument worth countering.

Secondly are you so sure his atheism is solidly antitheistic?

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Based on what I saw, it seems pretty plain. If you say his other videos are more ambivalent, I'll take your word for it.

Cause you often placed the burden of proof on him in your post - asking him to prove there is no god & the like.

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I only do that when people pretend that such a thing is possible, which is the impression that I got.

But I've had Pat subscribed to my youtube account for a while and've been keeping up with the stuff he posts. He seems more like an agnostic atheist who has an understandably big problem with people who make highly unlikely claims without meeting their own burden of proof, and in the extreme cases substituding evidence with the sword.

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If you say so.

Beckett said:

Well along with my comments I DID ask a few questions back there:
First do you wish to criticize or counter Pat's arguments? The latter is more constructive.
Secondly are you so sure his atheism is solidly antitheistic? Cause you often placed the burden of proof on him in your post - asking him to prove there is no god & the like. But I've had Pat subscribed to my youtube account for a while and've been keeping up with the stuff he posts. He seems more like an agnostic atheist who has an understandably big problem with people who make highly unlikely claims without meeting their own burden of proof, and in the extreme cases substituding evidence with the sword.

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Thank you for this explaination. This clears the air ALOT for me and now I can better understand why Pat is so irritated.

I want to make a couple of comments about the video. For one, I resent the blanket label/statement made that belief in God brings out the worst in the best of us. For all the uglies done in the name of God, there is much good as well. He seems to be spitting in the face of anyone with faith and I find that rather arrogant.

And I have news for him, nothing has been more difficult and at times inconvenient, than trying to live a Christian life. To state that I fail to "lift a single brain cell" in believing the "infantile lies and illusions" of the bible is again, arrogant, on his part.

Having faith is the most challenging thing I've ever done BECAUSE it requires faith in that which I do not necessarily have tangible evidence for. For those of us with trust issues, it's incredibly challenging.

I am constantly at battle with my thought processes. And though I deserve mockery, according to this gentleman, the fact remains...I didn't create a video to belittle atheists.

This is fantastic. I don't agree that theism deserves no respect, but he makes some great points.

I have to say that i think some Churches claim to be better than they are. They think of themselves as elite humans and i think its wrong. Why do these select organisations think theists any more moral than anyone else? Its just an illusion that they preach i think. Some Christians need to use their critical analysis skills and stop spoon feeding everything they absorb to everyone around them. Just because some guys wrote a book 2000 years ago telling you how to believe in fairytales doesn't warrant you any more respect than an atheist nor does it make you more moral. The best citizens in the world are both Christians, Muslims, Atheists, Buddhists and just about every other denomination you can think of. Theism is a choice (often made for you by your parents before you're developed enough to say no) and not by some divine divine right that makes you a superior human being.

What i find amusing is all his criticism on the page. He's not making anything up. He's not telling any lies, yet everyone is up in arms about how "this is wrong and that is wrong." I think this guy has only met shallow religious fanatics with no real concept of what they believe in. Thats why he gets scripture thrown at him. I think he should come on here and experience some of the wisdom our theists have on here

Beckett said:

Storm said:

The truth is that faith is nothing more than the deliberate suspension of disbelief. It's an act of will. It's not a state of grace; it's a state of choice.​

Wrong. We don't choose what we believe.

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WRONG! WRONGWRONGWRONG!!! NO!

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I find it interesting that you would express such charming (or, perhaps, youthful) certitude regarding doxastic voluntarism.

In a pluralistic society, respects comes hand in hand with the law that makes freedom of religion possible.

Respect, in this manner, does not mandate respect for the ideas held.

I have always found that people can "make great points" without being insulting. It really isn't that hard to be kind.