Is Religion A Crutch?

LCMS,

In order for this argument to have merit you must recognize sin. If you believe that man can do no wrong and he does not need to be saved then we shouldn't discuss things anymore. If man can do no wrong, why discuss religion?

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I recognize 'sin' from the standpoint of morality. Killing is bad, lying is bad, etc. All of those are 'sins' to you. I also believe them to be bad and amoral things, I just don't call them sin. That said, I believe that man can do much wrong.

A question for you: If man can do wrong, why discuss religion? Why does that matter?

Why not just let us all stew in our "misplaced belief."

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For the love of the debate.

I do not believe in an afterlife, therefore in my opinion, those who believe in god aren't 'stewing' at all, they're just living their lives differently than mine. That doesn't mean that I can't question them, though. In fact, that is what this glorious site is dedicated to: questioning and debating.

The recognition of sin makes the argument for God so easy however without i you can say whatever you want.

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The recognition of sin means the recognition of god and therefore there is no argument, let alone an easy one.

However, without the 'recognition' or 'belief' in sin, one can look at things objectively, and if by 'saying whatever I want' you mean 'saying what is most logical', then I absolutely agree.

If you don't need God to save you then why does religion matter?

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In all truth, I never said it mattered. I am here for the same reason most other people are here: the debate. Society advances by people tossing around ideas and reaching new conclusions. It is all necessary.

You would be arguing from a John Locke perspective that man is basically good and can turn evil. My believe would center on a Thomas Hobbes view that man is basically bad and needs a saviour. Another note in reference to the "pre-enlightenment" thinking is that not all such thinking was geared toward witch hunts. On the contrary Christian-Humanism was a major movement in which people tried to better themselves in service to their church. Humanism also championed the learning of ancient texts and languages. You cannot say that "pre-enlightenment" thinking was that barbaric. On the contrary, the "she's a witch because she looks like one" was practiced by the Puritans in early and middle Enlightenment time frame. Post-enlightenment thought believes that everything can be explained. While it is invaluable in the realm of science, mathematics, etc...; it is cannot truely be applied to religion because some things in the divine mystery are incomprehendable by human reason. How can the Holy Trinity constitute three persons, but is only one? This is a question that troubles the human reason, and therefore is incomprehendable. God is God. He is all powerful what prevents him from doing things we cannot understand?

LCMS,

Post-enlightenment thought believes that everything can be explained. While it is invaluable in the realm of science, mathematics, etc...; it is cannot truely be applied to religion because some things in the divine mystery are incomprehendable by human reason.

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Why can't everything be explained? Why can't everything be comprehendable?

You are right when you state that such things cannot be applied to religion, because religious texts cannot grow and change to accomodate and explain new ideas.

How can the Holy Trinity constitute three persons, but is only one? This is a question that troubles the human reason, and therefore is incomprehendable.

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Well, maybe it's not. Maybe the idea of a trinity is just a bunch of bunk. What you are doing, is taking everything that you can't understand, explaining it as an 'unexplainable' mystery of god, and never trying to delve into it again. Everything must be constantly questioned. You can't just wright things off as mysteries, for if you do, they will ALWAYS be mysteries.

God is God. He is all powerful what prevents him from doing things we cannot understand?

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Well, while he's at it, why doesn't he do something mysterious which actually benefits our society. The 'trinity' does not affect life and death. If he likes mysteries so much, why doesn't he destroy evil and still allow us to have free will? That's pretty uncomprehendable, and yet beneficial. Everyone's happy!

You wouldn't say saving us from eternal damnation isn't something that helps our society?

LCMS,

Society? No. Your personal 'salvation' has nothing to do with me or my community.

You wouldn't say saving us from eternal damnation isn't something that helps our society?

Too funny – society functions on the living, not the damned. Therefore, to be saved from eternal damnation or not cannot possibly benefit society.

Sorry, let me correct myelf. God showing mercy on us helps our human race. Society was the wrong word for it. It was late when I posted the response.

Maize,

Well said. I think many people are seeing the word 'crutch' with a bad connotation, when the definition simply means something which helps, not something which hinders.

LCMS,

I still do not see how god showing mercy on us after death helps society, could you clarify?

Or do you mean, god showing mercy on the living? Well, that is definately an argumentable idea. There are many cancer patients who would disagree that god is particularly merciful at all.

LCMS Sprecher said:

Sorry, let me correct myelf. God showing mercy on us helps our human race. Society was the wrong word for it. It was late when I posted the response.

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See earlier post. I recanted my previous wording.

Although I've been raised a Christian, I do not have a blind faith. I know I havn't read every possible argument against my beliefs, or the arguments for someone elses, but i've read a lot. I've researched the validity of my faith and continue to pursue those endevors. If we are using the Webster's defninition of crutch as "anything one leans or relies on for support, help, etc." then yes, my faith is a crutch. Is this crutch a burden to me? Of course not! My crutch helps me stand, because without it, I would fall. I'm proud of my faith and it's my crutch for all the right reasons. Do I still pursue increasing my knowledge about my faith and the faith of others? Absolutely. Personally, I think we are all in need of crutches (addictions, whatever those may be for each individual, or anything we try to fill our hears with). We all have crutches. Mine just happens to be my faith.

Lightkeeper said:

Some people think religion is a crutch? If you think it is, then tell us why. If you think it isn't, then tell us why.

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Is religion a crutch?

Yes.

If only all people realized that they have a broken leg.

LCMS

OK, you can substitute 'society' for 'human race' in my response and the statement still stands.

Dead is dead - it benefits no one*.

*unless you are the benefactor of a life insurance policy.

Is religion a crutch? Yes for many of course it is.....its about fitting in..joining a group....comfort...security...being part of the team.....finding a mate (therefore religion becomes part of the "crotch"...ha hah ha).....etc

In all cases is religion a crutch? NO
For some of us (myself included) "religion" is as necessary as breathing and eating....being "one with God" is as basic and neccessary as deficating...but not for everyone....

Of course the "crutch" idea could be said of televisoon....science...clothes...drugs....etc.....

Spiritus domni replevit orbem terrarum

Of course the "crutch" idea could be said of televisoon....science...clothes...drugs....etc.....

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That's because faith plays just as much a part in these activities as in religion. Everyone lives by faith, but the difference is preference.

dan said:

Of course the "crutch" idea could be said of televisoon....science...clothes...drugs....etc.....

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That's because faith plays just as much a part in these activities as in religion. Everyone lives by faith, but the difference is preference.

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I've already stated that I do not live by faith of any kind. That there is a distinction between faith and belief and, according to another thread, two distinct meanings for belief

ou don't believe you live by faith because you just define away everything so you don't have to see it that way; but you do in fact live by faith.

Dan,

My handy-dandy New American Webster Handy College Dictionary (for which I paid $6.99) says -

faith n. 1. Belief without proof.

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Webster's New World Dictionary of the American Language (which cost $19.95)
says -

faith n. 1. unquestioning belief that does not require proof or evidence.

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I paid a bargin $6.97 more for my definition than the one you're offering and I think I know better than you how I lead my life. :lol: Now, please stop, here and in other threads as well, trying to ascribe to me something that doesn't exist for me.

Religion is a crutch to some. Many live life, accepting religion, not questioning it, but going to it for easy answers.

Religion, in my opinion only, of course, is only a crutch if you lean too heavily.

~*Pegan*~

Do you require proof that your television is in fact a television? Do you require proof that the sun will rise tomorrow? Do you require proof that the bread you bake will rise? Do you require proof that you will go to bed tonight and wake up in the morning? Do you require proof that you do indeed have a heart beating inside your chest? Do you require proof that your parents are (or were) indeed your parents? Do you require proof that when you take a shower you become clean?