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A 2nd question for Creationists.

Is it possible to believe in “God” and accept the theory of Evolution?

  • It is possible to believe in “God” and in the theory of evolution, and I believe in both.

    Votes: 8 66.7%

  • It is possible to believe in “God” and in the theory of evolution, but I don’t believe in evol

    Votes: 3 25.0%

  • It is not possible to believe in “God” and evolution.

    Votes: 1 8.3%
  • Total voters
    12
fantome profane

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
Is it possible to believe in “God” and accept the theory of Evolution?

Like my previous poll I invite all comments but I would ask that only Creationists vote in the poll. And I am not going to define Creationist, I leave that to you. If you consider yourself a Creationist please vote in the poll. I will however define evolution for the purpose of this poll. I am referring to the theory of evolution that all life on earth is descended from a common ancestor and that new species originate through a process of mutation and natural selection. It does not refer to abiogenesis, big bang or the origin of matter.

This thread is also the flip side of a previous thread we had a while ago. Do atheists think that evolution theory proves that there is no God? I think that thread indicated that although some atheists believe this, most don’t. It should be interesting to see what results we get from this.
 
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Runlikethewind

Runlikethewind

Monk in Training
I voted: It is possible to believe in “God” and in the theory of evolution, and I believe in both. The only thing I would change however is that I believe in God as creator of all that is seen and unseen and I accept the theory of evolution. I don't think that a scientific theory is something that is believed, it is something that is accepted or rejected based on the evidence. I used to reject the theory based on my mistaken idea that it was incompatible with my faith. I accepted the theory once I studied the evidence and only then did I attempt to solve the problem of an apparent incompatibility with my faith, a problem I am still working on but a problem which I am confident can be solved.
 
No*s

No*s

Captain Obvious
I selected the first option. It is quite possible to believe in evolution and God at the same time. "Evolution" is not a homogenous idea, after all. There are a number of different takes and spins on it. For instance, I do not believe that natural laws alone can account for the work it has done. They do not form a sufficient explanation to my mind without some sort of God guiding it.

On the other hand, there is enough evidence for evolution to make it the default stance now. So, in the absence of a strong argument against it, I see no reason to disbelieve it.

Taken together, I can believe in it, see the evidence pointing to it, and still see the need for a God.
 
life.is.ravishing

life.is.ravishing

Loving life...
'It is possible to believe in “God” and in the theory of evolution, but I don’t believe in evolution.'

Heck, my own mother believes in God and evolution. I know many people that do. However, I'm a creationist. I believe God put the creation story in the Bible because it's true, not just as a pretty tale (although it is pretty too. :)). Oh well, there are much more important things to worry about. As one of the Pope's said (no, I'm not Catholic. ;) Some of these Popes are some pretty smart guys though. :)) "What unites us as Christians is far greater than what divides us." I like to focus on the "unite" part. :eek:
 
Mister Emu

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
I couldn't choose any of the options...

I believe that it is possible to accept both, but I'm unsure...
 
Masourga

Masourga

Member
Mister Emu said:
I couldn't choose any of the options...
Click to expand...

I'm with Emu. I think it is certainly possible to believe in both. An all-powerful being, with supposedly unlimited potential could have designed the whole system, planted the fruits, and let it take flight (a multi-billion year flight).

I, personally, don't believe in God. I don't deny that there could possibly be one (or multiple) and I fully understand that others do believe. Yet I don't see a problem or a conflict in believing in BOTH evolution and a God (belief in a text like the Bible and belief in evolution being an entirely different matter).

Basically, there is SOME reason that the laws of the universe are in place. Whether that be simply because they always were or because a being of unknowable power put them there, I can't know.
 
Storm

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
Not only do I believe in both, evolution is central to my theology. I believe it is a cosmic force, the balance of entropy, and that the two together drive the Becoming (the process of God's maturation).

EDIT: Yes, I realize that that goes quite beyond the scope of the Theory of Evolution.
 
fantome profane

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
Masourga said:
I'm with Emu. I think it is certainly possible to believe in both. An all-powerful being, with supposedly unlimited potential could have designed the whole system, planted the fruits, and let it take flight (a multi-billion year flight).

I, personally, don't believe in God. I don't deny that there could possibly be one (or multiple) and I fully understand that others do believe. Yet I don't see a problem or a conflict in believing in BOTH evolution and a God (belief in a text like the Bible and belief in evolution being an entirely different matter).

Basically, there is SOME reason that the laws of the universe are in place. Whether that be simply because they always were or because a being of unknowable power put them there, I can't know.
Click to expand...
Do you consider yourself a creationist?
 
Masourga

Masourga

Member
fantôme profane;1357598 said:
Do you consider yourself a creationist?
Click to expand...

Hmmm... I seem to have completely glossed over the fact that the thread title even says the poll is for creationists. Nevermind me... I'm oblivious.
 
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madhatter85

madhatter85

Transhumanist
i voted:
It is possible to believe in “God” and in the theory of evolution, but I don’t believe in evolution.

However, it should have stated "but I don’t believe in [the theory of] evolution"

Evolution happens, things change, mutate and adapt to thier surrounding eviroment. But i do not believe in humans descending from apes.
 
darkendless

darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
Storm said:
Not only do I believe in both, evolution is central to my theology. I believe it is a cosmic force, the balance of entropy, and that the two together drive the Becoming (the process of God's maturation).

EDIT: Yes, I realize that that goes quite beyond the scope of the Theory of Evolution.
Click to expand...

That is interesting. I was wondering though, don't most things naturally seek maximum entropy/disorder? As in there is no balance, only more and more chaos?
I mean if you have a glass of water weith ice cubes, the system in increasing in entropy as the ice molecules are broken as the system tries to establish a thermodynamic equilibrium.
Heat death of the universe is another example, just unproven.

Am i understanding correctly what you mean by entropy or am i all over th shot?
 
S

S-word

Well-Known Member
fantôme profane;1352711 said:
Is it possible to believe in “God” and accept the theory of Evolution?
Click to expand...
fantôme profane;1352711 said:
Is it possible to believe in God and not believe that the creation was through the long slow process of evolution?

Only a fool would look at the complexity and beauty of the creation and believe that it simply came into existence through the process’ of random chance and that there is no creator. To understand the creator God we only have to look at his earthly image, the multi celled androgynous body of (Adam) mankind. How many are there who would look at the space shuttle and its ground control system without which the space shuttle would be useless and believe that it had no designer and that it had come into existence through random chance? Not too many I would suggest, but only the fools would believe that it was not created through the long and slow gradual process of the evolution of the mind of man. When one of the most ancient ancestors watched a log roll down a hill and thereafter created the first wheel, He did not turn to his partners and say, “There you are, I have just created the first component that will go into the creation of our future space shuttle.”

From the first wheel the first primitive wheel barrow was created, then the multi wooden wheeled cart, etc, etc, each creation being the expression of the height to which the mind of the creator had evolved to at that point in time: over the tens of thousands of years and the billions and billions of creations, the mind of man had evolved to the point where it contained the necessary data to create the Space shuttle and all its supporting infrastructure; and so it is with the invisible mind that is God in whose image and likeness mankind was created, the creation at any given point in time is merely the expression and visible manifestation of the invisible mind that is God.
Click to expand...
 
Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
S-word said:
Only a fool would look at the complexity and beauty of the creation and believe that it simply came into existence through the process’ of random chance and that there is no creator.
Click to expand...
Ignorant rubbish. Go read Climbing Mount Improbable ... :rolleyes:
 
fantome profane

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
madhatter85 said:
i voted:
It is possible to believe in “God” and in the theory of evolution, but I don’t believe in evolution.

However, it should have stated "but I don’t believe in [the theory of] evolution"

Evolution happens, things change, mutate and adapt to thier surrounding eviroment. But i do not believe in humans descending from apes.
Click to expand...
I think I did a reasonable job of defining what I meant by evolution in the OP.
fantôme profane;1352711 said:
I will however define evolution for the purpose of this poll. I am referring to the theory of evolution that all life on earth is descended from a common ancestor and that new species originate through a process of mutation and natural selection.
Click to expand...


Jayhawker Soule said:
Why did you exclude so many from voting?
Click to expand...
Because no one cares what you think Jay.:p (Just kidding)

Seriously I am trying to clarify something about the creationist mindset for myself. I want to know if their religious beliefs make it more difficult for them to accept the science behind evolution, or if it makes it absolutely impossible for them to accept. If it is the first then we will have some serious difficulties in communicating, but perhaps not insurmountable difficulties. If it is the second, then there is just no point in trying. If it makes you feel better I also excluded myself from voting in the poll as well.
 
S

S-word

Well-Known Member
Quote....fantome profane
Because no one cares what you think Jay.:p (Just kidding)

When you said "Just kidding," I bet you nearly bit off the tongue in your cheek.
 
Dunemeister

Dunemeister

Well-Known Member
Jayhawker Soule said:
Ignorant rubbish. Go read Climbing Mount Improbable ... :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Pontificating tomfoolery. Lots of highly educated and knowledgeable people (Antony Flew, for example) are convinced on the basis of evidence, and perhaps even after having read Climbing Mount Improbable, that the existence of this universe is simply not possible without a creator. Part of the problem with this whole debate is the mutual demonization (the other side are evil) or patronization or dismissal (the other side are, sadly, poor deluded people who can't help believing the wrong thing because of <insert weakness of character>).
 
Dunemeister

Dunemeister

Well-Known Member
fantôme profane;1360249 said:
Seriously I am trying to clarify something about the creationist mindset for myself. I want to know if their religious beliefs make it more difficult for them to accept the science behind evolution, or if it makes it absolutely impossible for them to accept. If it is the first then we will have some serious difficulties in communicating, but perhaps not insurmountable difficulties. If it is the second, then there is just no point in trying. If it makes you feel better I also excluded myself from voting in the poll as well.
Click to expand...

As a former YEC adherent, I can speak for my experience. I was convinced that the only correct reading of scripture was a flatfooted literalism. I was convinced that reading Genesis 1 - 2 in any nonliteral sense meant that I was "compromising the gospel" and I had no principled way to take other stories, such as the resurrection of Jesus or his Incarnation, as more or less literal historical realities.

Believing that, I reasoned that mutation + natural selection =/= evolution. That is, I acknowledged all the science. I agreed that there were such things as mutation in nature and that it was random. I acknowledged that natural selection was at work. But I did not acknowledge that these two processes entail the overall story of progression from simple life forms to complex, from amoeba to man as they said.

My journey away from YEC was occasioned not by understanding science better, because honestly I don't understand evolutionary science much better now than I did in university during my rabid YEC days. Rather, it was occasioned by continuing theological studies and learning how to appreciate the beauty and variety of biblical writings and coming to appreciate the creativity involved in producing them. I learned that there is such a thing as "genre" and that there are ways of discerning it. I learned that different genres require different interpretive strategies. Eventually, I came to believe it was POSSIBLE to interpret Genesis as poetry, especially after I was shown the poetic elements in the story. And I finally came to see Genesis as poetic narrative, a combination of genres, and in so doing the document took on a richer and more useful role in my spiritual life.

So I'm not YEC anymore. I don't know what I am. I don't believe in evolution, but I think it's the best scientific explanation we've got, so it's the one we should teach in school. I think ID needs some work to pass muster as suitably scientific, but I see nothing wrong with brining a theistic perspective to one's scientific investigations and letting that perspective influence the shape and content of scientific theories.
 
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