• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Is prayer the walkie-talkie of war?

Heneni

Heneni

Miss Independent
sojourner said:
Only in the sense that we're moving from a perspective of war to one of peace, as we journey toward God and transformation.
Click to expand...

No, only in the sense that our journey will include war. No resistance means no growth and no transformation. No bodybuilder has ever developed muscle without resistance.

So for me, these scriptures indicate the reality that there will be resistance and it is needed for transformation.
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Heneni said:
No, only in the sense that our journey will include war. No resistance means no growth and no transformation. No bodybuilder has ever developed muscle without resistance.

So for me, these scriptures indicate the reality that there will be resistance and it is needed for transformation.
Click to expand...
Again, resistance is not the same as war. War is a human reality, not a Divine reality. And it is a very specific and formal thing. Lifting weights constitutes resistance. It does not constitute war. When one lifts weights, one wears a belt to protect the diaphragm from hernia -- not from speeding projectiles.
 
Heneni

Heneni

Miss Independent
sojourner said:
Again, resistance is not the same as war. War is a human reality, not a Divine reality. And it is a very specific and formal thing. Lifting weights constitutes resistance. It does not constitute war. When one lifts weights, one wears a belt to protect the diaphragm from hernia -- not from speeding projectiles.
Click to expand...

I think you missed the point. There is certainly a war going on. Its not like a human war, else the scriptures that i mentioned would ask god to help us fight a human war, which of course I dont think he will do.

Thanks anyway for your input sojourner.

If you were willing to admit that their is a spiritual war going on, perhaps we can debate the nature of that war, and why the scriptures indicate that it is ongoing, and why and how prayer is essential to be victoreous.
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Heneni said:
I think you missed the point. There is certainly a war going on. Its not like a human war, else the scriptures that i mentioned would ask god to help us fight a human war, which of course I dont think he will do.

Thanks anyway for your input sojourner.

If you were willing to admit that their is a spiritual war going on, perhaps we can debate the nature of that war, and why the scriptures indicate that it is ongoing, and why and how prayer is essential to be victoreous.
Click to expand...
My point is that you have missed the point: There is no war. God is not a God of war, and those of us who are in God have no need of war.

Perhaps there is a spiritual struggle for us to shake off our selfish attachments and return to God, who creates us, but that does not constitute a spiritual war. It constitutes a spiritual struggle (which, as I've pointed out earlier, is not the same as a war, since a war is a formalized state of hostility). Since God does not abide in hostility toward any living being, there can be no war.

As I've said before, the world view of the ancients who wrote the scriptures certainly precipitated their perspective of that struggle as war. But we moderns have no need to perceive it in that way.
 
Heneni

Heneni

Miss Independent
sojourner said:
Since God does not abide in hostility toward any living being, there can be no war.
quote]

What do you make of this then? jesus said...i did not come to bring peace but a sword.

I dont believe that Jesus is a war monger, but rather that by siding with him, you will automatically be excluded from the other side. And the kingdom suffers violence and the violent take it by force.
Click to expand...
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Heneni said:
sojourner said:
Since God does not abide in hostility toward any living being, there can be no war.
quote]

What do you make of this then? jesus said...i did not come to bring peace but a sword.

I dont believe that Jesus is a war monger, but rather that by siding with him, you will automatically be excluded from the other side. And the kingdom suffers violence and the violent take it by force.
Click to expand...
What do I make of it, or what did the writer make of it? As I said earlier, the ancients certainly made use of images of war, but we moderns have no use to do that. I take it as a statement of holiness. To be holy is to be separated out from. A sword certainly serves to separate things.
Click to expand...
 
Charity

Charity

Let's go racing boys !
Christians are involved in a spiritual warfare daily...The weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty with the tearing down of strongholds. Strongholds are things in our life that would come between us and our walk with God. Just because we aren't physically battling doesn't mean that we aren't experiencing interference in our walk with God.......I would be more concerned if everything was going smoothly, I would feel the need to check my standing with God, because if your really doing something for God then you will meet opposition...Why should anything try to hinder someone who isn't doing anything anyway? :p
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Charity said:
Christians are involved in a spiritual warfare daily...The weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty with the tearing down of strongholds. Strongholds are things in our life that would come between us and our walk with God. Just because we aren't physically battling doesn't mean that we aren't experiencing interference in our walk with God.......I would be more concerned if everything was going smoothly, I would feel the need to check my standing with God, because if your really doing something for God then you will meet opposition...Why should anything try to hinder someone who isn't doing anything anyway? :p
Click to expand...

Again, razing a stronghold has nothing to do with war. War raised the Berlin Wall. It was peace that razed it.

Interference has nothing to do with war. I close my eyes to shut out the light. My eyelids cause interference. But I'm not at war with the light.

War is a formalized state of hostility. God is not a hostile God. God is a God of love. since we are in God's kindom, we have no need to operate from such a formalized stance.
 
Charity

Charity

Let's go racing boys !
sojourner said:
Again, razing a stronghold has nothing to do with war. War raised the Berlin Wall. It was peace that razed it.

Interference has nothing to do with war. I close my eyes to shut out the light. My eyelids cause interference. But I'm not at war with the light.

War is a formalized state of hostility. God is not a hostile God. God is a God of love. since we are in God's kindom, we have no need to operate from such a formalized stance.
Click to expand...
We battle against principalities daily, If you don't then you need to do a self evaluation....When you try to do something good for God you are going to meet challenges and obstacles, if you don't then you must not be doing enough to challenge the principalities of sin and immorality....Any thing that hinders you or trys to stop your work for God is a spiritual battle and has to be overcome with prayer and effort.....:rolleyes: If your satisfied with your position fine, but I fight battles daily.......
 
Heneni

Heneni

Miss Independent
A christian has to first and foremost, overcome themselves. HE HE...

Then, they might be able to 'fight' the good fight of faith. Your faith in god is constantly under attack. How do withstand it? By putting on the armour of god. And interesting the bible says not to attack, but to stand firm. STAND is different to attacking. Dont give the principalities of the air an inch in your heart.

Strongholds are things that keep us from believing what god said, and to act on that belief.

Love
Heneni
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Charity said:
We battle against principalities daily, If you don't then you need to do a self evaluation....When you try to do something good for God you are going to meet challenges and obstacles, if you don't then you must not be doing enough to challenge the principalities of sin and immorality....Any thing that hinders you or trys to stop your work for God is a spiritual battle and has to be overcome with prayer and effort.....:rolleyes: If your satisfied with your position fine, but I fight battles daily.......
Click to expand...
runners meet hurdles, too. They either overcome them, or they fall down. But that doesn't constitute warfare. It constitutes sport. the "principality" of sin is a non-issue. The only sin left for the Christian is forgiven sin, and need not be feared. Methinks that, if you're engaged in battle, it's a battle with the self. You either get over yourself, or you fall down. That doesn't constitute warfare. It constitutes growth.
 
Charity

Charity

Let's go racing boys !
sojourner said:
runners meet hurdles, too. They either overcome them, or they fall down. But that doesn't constitute warfare. It constitutes sport. the "principality" of sin is a non-issue. The only sin left for the Christian is forgiven sin, and need not be feared. Methinks that, if you're engaged in battle, it's a battle with the self. You either get over yourself, or you fall down. That doesn't constitute warfare. It constitutes growth.
Click to expand...
Sorry Sojourner, you just don't grasp the concept that we, the Christians are in a spiritual warfare daily.....It doens't mean we actually battle some force but we do it in a spiritual sense trying to keep our selves in subjection to Christ. If you don't have a battle fine, I am happy for you.......Paul said "I die daily" Meaning that he endangered himself daily, that he suffered persecution and privation for Christ daily....There is a battle daily between right and wrong and we have to win that battle daily.....It's a Spiritual battle....Prayer is a weapon in that battle it is like a missile it hits the target everytime. Prayer is the key to victory in a battle for the Christian.
We grow when we come through each battle, whether it is with ourself or some other force that we can't control......
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Charity said:
Sorry Sojourner, you just don't grasp the concept that we, the Christians are in a spiritual warfare daily.....It doens't mean we actually battle some force but we do it in a spiritual sense trying to keep our selves in subjection to Christ. If you don't have a battle fine, I am happy for you.......Paul said "I die daily" Meaning that he endangered himself daily, that he suffered persecution and privation for Christ daily....There is a battle daily between right and wrong and we have to win that battle daily.....It's a Spiritual battle....Prayer is a weapon in that battle it is like a missile it hits the target everytime. Prayer is the key to victory in a battle for the Christian.
We grow when we come through each battle, whether it is with ourself or some other force that we can't control......
Click to expand...
Once again: War is a formalized declaration of hostility between two powers. God is love. If God is omnipresent -- if there is such a thing as a "sacramental universe" -- and I believe there is -- then God is all encompassing, the "powers of darkness" are not part of reality, in the sense that they cognitively and independently stand against God, and can not be "battled against" -- merely discounted. If God is love, and God is all, then who is the other power? The evil we face is a machination of a humanity whose face is not turned toward God. Jesus commands us to love them -- not battle them. Jesus also asks us to love ourselves -- not fight with ourselves. Fighting is wasted time and energy. That being said, working to better ourselves -- to grow in grace -- is a whole different kettle of fish.
 
tomspug

tomspug

Absorbant
Heneni said:
It calls on god for courage (ephesians 6:19)
It calls for troop deployment and target location (Acts 13: 1-3)
It calls for protection and air cover (matthew 6:13,luke21:36)
It calls for firepower to blast open a way for the word (Collosians 4:3)
It calls for a miracle of healing for the wounded soldier (James 1:5)
It calls for supplies for the forces (matthew 6:11;Phillipians 4:6)
And it calls for needed reinforcements(matthew 9:38)
Click to expand...
Wow. That's the best example of selective reading I've seen in a long time.
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
As an addendum to my previous post:
Is prayer a walkie-talkie for war? No. Prayer is a walkie-talkie for holy conversation. Prayer is fundamentally a communication -- a drawing nigh -- between God and humanity. The "spiritual warfare" idea only works if one buys into the Calvinist ideal of total depravity -- which I do not. I buy into the inherent goodness of humanity, as we are created in God's image. Therefore, I deal with sin by dusting and cleaning, not by sacking and pillaging.
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
It calls on god for courage (ephesians 6:19)
It calls for troop deployment and target location (Acts 13: 1-3)
It calls for protection and air cover (matthew 6:13,luke21:36)
It calls for firepower to blast open a way for the word (Collosians 4:3)
It calls for a miracle of healing for the wounded soldier (James 1:5)
It calls for supplies for the forces (matthew 6:11;Phillipians 4:6)
And it calls for needed reinforcements(matthew 9:38)
Click to expand...
It calls for us to become the Good News.
It calls for workers in God's vineyard, to look for grapes ripe for harvest.
It calls for holy strength and fortitude.
It calls for an opening of the heart.
It calls for God's generous gift of wisdom.
It calls for sustenance and a claim upon God's providence.
It calls for evangelists.

Sorry. I don't see any references here to warfare. I do see a lot of references to trust, sustenance, and the work that is ours to do to bring fulfillment to God's kindom (not kingdom).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top